Can I use this music?

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BlueRibboc

Ok, so I'm relatively new to all this, but optimistic and eager to learn!
I am currently working on a low/no budget short film that, when finished, I would ultimately like to enter into film festivals.
I have done a lot of research into all the aspects of filmmaking, especially the legal stuff (which can get so confusing with all this grey stuff inbetween, I know!). However, I am yet to find an answer to this question. I hope someone can help shed light on it :)

I want to have a music box playing in my film. I know there are some good royalty free/free to use tracks out there, but I would really like to be able to use the music from the actual music box! I know it is a piece from swan lake. I know swan lake was written in like the 19th century so this would make it public domain. However... :hmm:
Would I be able to record the music box playing? The music box has no markings or company name, so could I legally record the sound?

I know this probably sounds confusing... I think I have confused myself! But thanks for reading anyways :)
 
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Now you're into one of those gray areas. The music itself is, as you stated, in the public domain. The arrangement - how it is reproduced by the music box - may still be under copyright. As you have no markings on the music box it will be close to impossible to track down.

It should be fairly easy to find a musician somewhere to use a "music box" patch from a synth or sampler to duplicate the music you want.
 
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You could find a MIDI file online (and credit the person who created it of course), and there are many very high quality music box virtual instruments out there. I bet you could get someone to run the MIDI file through their music box VST with a touch of ambient reverb (so it sounds like it's in a room) for little to no cost.
 
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I agree with the above advice. One small thing I'll add, though -- personally, I would prefer to "worldize" it. Have a musician send you a clean mp3, then play it through really small speakers -- maybe a phone, maybe headphones -- something that you could record, and it would sound like a music box.
 
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That would be uncleared audio and I wouldn't use it. Copyright lasts 75 years and unless you are positive that music box is older than that - it is a protected arrangement and it is probably technically a recording.
 
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I think I disagree.

It sounds to me like it's a mechanical music box that you wind and as the metal cylinder rotates, the metal prongs hit the pegs and it makes the appropriate note, is that correct?

Seems to me in this case the music box is acting more like a musical instrument than a devise that plays music. It would be like playing a xylophone on camera, as long as you can't see the brand name of the box it should be OK.

The band Thrice has a song called Music Box which features an actual music box that plays a public domain tune. They released that song on a major record label without buying rights.

That being said, if you want to be ultra safe, it's not hard to get a simple music box midi file or musician recording and EQ it to sound realistic.
 
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moonshieldmedia said:
Seems to me in this case the music box is acting more like a musical instrument than a devise that plays music. It would be like playing a xylophone on camera, as long as you can't see the brand name of the box it should be OK.
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A musical instrument only contains intellectual property as far as it's construction is concerned, but no intellectual property rights as far as music is concerned because a musical instrument produces music (when played by a musician), it doesn't reproduce music. A music box on the other hand only reproduces music, as it already contains the performance (and the composition/arrangement) and it's this performance which is (or could be) copyrighted.

I agree with Alcove, that to be safe you should get a musician to re-record the piece using a music box sample/synth patch. BTW, it's the re-recording mixer (or who ever is acting as the re-recording mixer) who should add the room reverb, not the musician.

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Cracker Funk said:
I agree with the above advice. One small thing I'll add, though -- personally, I would prefer to "worldize" it. Have a musician send you a clean mp3, then play it through really small speakers -- maybe a phone, maybe headphones -- something that you could record, and it would sound like a music box.
Click to expand...

I think you may have mis-understood what "worldizing" is. An example of worldizing would be to take Foley footsteps, play them out of a good quality speaker in say a cathedral and re-record the footsteps, so that now you have footsteps "in the world" containing cathedral reverb/reflections. Worldizing was much more common in the age before digital processing and reverb units/plugins. Following your advice, you would end up with a music box sample which sounds as if it were playing on a phone (for example). Fine if that's what you're after but in this case we are after an authentic music box sound. Depending on the original quality/sound of the music box sample/patch used, some EQ and probably some reverb would be needed during the final mix but worldizing wouldn't be of any help.

Sorry, slightly off topic, especially as BlueRibboc has given up on the idea anyway!

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