At what point do you need permits?

ClockworkNinja

ClockworkNinja

Okay, so this has been in the back of my mind for awhile now but I've ran into a bit of a brick wall in my knowledge. Short of actually talking to a lawyer for specific advice I was hoping to get some general guideline from what people have experience dealing with themselves.

I've got an idea in mind for a kickstarter project I've been planning for a psuedo-documentary piece. The budget isn't exactly massive, about $25k or so and will likely be mostly indoors with a small crew. So the thing I'm stuck at, is when should you apply for filming licenses, permits and other legal stuff with the city you're filming in?

I didn't see any specific guidelines on the websites I've found, so I'm wondering if cities have requirements based on budgets, profit potential, the sheer size of crew you're working with or some arcane formula outside the realm of us mere mortals? Unfortunately entertainment law's not something that I'm overly familiar with outside of copyright matters.
 
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A lawyer isn't needed for this. Your local film commission or permit
office will have all the answers. Maybe not on the website so you
may have to leave the computer for a moment and show up in
person. Or make a phone call.

If you are shooting indoors on private (non government owned)
property you may not need a permit at all. the is not some arcane
formula - each city will have clear, easy to understand rules on when
and where you need a permit. The rules have nothing at all to do
with budget, profitability or size of crew. Ask.

ClockworkNinja said:
So the thing I'm stuck at, is when should you apply for filming licenses, permits and other legal stuff with the city you're filming in?
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You should apply within you city's guidelines. Again, you're going to
have to ask. Usually it's best to fill out the application when you have
the exact shoot dates and exact locations.
 
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I made a feature film without any permits at all. It would be harder to do in places like LA and NYC, but if money is not flowing, look for ways to avoid permits. Permits may also require showing proof of insurance.
 
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GuerrillaAngel said:
I made a feature film without any permits at all. It would be harder to do in places like LA and NYC, but if money is not flowing, look for ways to avoid permits. Permits may also require showing proof of insurance.
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Nah, NYC and LA would be a bit too much. Right now the areas I'm looking at are various ocean-side cities in Oregon. I doubt I'll be able to narrow down specific locations until after the kickstarter's launched simply due to the nature of what I'm wanting to shoot.
 
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ClockworkNinja said:
Nah, NYC and LA would be a bit too much. Right now the areas I'm looking at are various ocean-side cities in Oregon. I doubt I'll be able to narrow down specific locations until after the kickstarter's launched simply due to the nature of what I'm wanting to shoot.
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I shot on the Oregon coast. You could get away with most anything there except in a few certain and weird cities.
 
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It really is different everywhere you go. In my city, if you're on public property, the moment you set down a tripod, you need a permit. But if you're shooting handheld, with a small cast/crew, there is absolutely no legal need for a permit.

I use tripods, and I've never shot with a permit on public property, and nobody has ever paid any mind. On the contrary, it only seems to attract interest and curiosity, but never any animosity. The only time I ever ran into trouble was this one time I was shooting on private property, and I was being kind of brazen. All they did was ask me to leave.

But that's my city. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I've heard that the guerrilla filmmaking experience is quite the opposite in LA. What's your city like? That's up to you to find out.

Consider this -- every year, hundreds of teams gather to take part in the 48 Hour Film Project. None of them work with permits. Police are cool with it.

Use common-sense. Don't be a jerk. Don't intrude on anybody's space. You'll be fine.

That's not legal advice. In fact, that's illegal advice. But I tend to operate on the rule that if there's no harm, there's no foul.
 
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Yup, check out your local regulations.

In LA at least the 'rule of three' applies where you can have up to three crew as long as your filming isn't too intensive without a permit.
 
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Cracker Funk said:
It really is different everywhere you go. In my city, if you're on public property, the moment you set down a tripod, you need a permit.
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That's totally unreasonable. Way worse than here in Los Angeles.


jax_rox said:
In LA at least the 'rule of three' applies where you can have up to three crew as long as your filming isn't too intensive without a permit.
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Not sure where you heard this but that is not true.
 
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I've heard of the rule of 3 rule here in LA as well. I'm not sure if it holds up legally, but filming in a public place is kind of a grey area.

For instance, walking down Sunset Blvd with a handheld DSLR filming 1 or 2 actors speak some dialogue is no different than a family of tourists walking down the same street filming each other on their vacation.

And for all anyone knows, you could be taking photographs, which is completely legal in just about any public place in LA (even with a tripod).
 
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directorik said:
Not sure where you heard this but that is not true.
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It's certainly true. I'm not sure it's publicised much.
LAPD may give you a hard time about it, I've heard that can sometimes happen and they get a bit funny about film permits and the like if you're not from a major studio.
 
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jax_rox said:
LAPD may give you a hard time about it, I've heard that can sometimes happen and they get a bit funny about film permits and the like if you're not from a major studio.
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Do you say this from experience? Is it Los Angeles City only? Is
it Los Angeles County?

I’ve been shooting in Los Angeles for years. An ex roommate is
one of the founders of “FilmLA”. I have done permitted shoots
and non permitted shoots - none for a major studio. I, too, have
heard this “”rule of three”. I have been stopped by the police for
shooting with one actor and me - I have been allowed to shoot
with fiver crew, three cast and equipment. No one at the permit
office has ever said this “rule” exists and I have never spoken to
an LAPD officer who knew about it. It’s all over messageboards -
but it’s not on the books anywhere in Los Angeles.

A rule that isn’t publicized much is not a useful or even real rule -
it’s a story told by many people. To make it enforceable it would
be written down somewhere so producers, location managers, the
LA Film Commission and the LAPD would know about it.

jax, you say it is certainly true and you say it with some authority.
Could you please point me to where it is written?
 
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I'm not too sure on the specifics of it - I don't live in LA, though I am here for a few weeks at the moment shooting some stuff.
I dropped by USC's film school and spoke to one of the guys there, and he told me about it. I couldn't imagine USC to be behind the ball, or at least informed with wrong information, especially as they apparently keep in pretty constant communication with FilmLA.

A quick search on the net garnered this:

http://carpetbagger.blogs.nytimes.c...nt-filming-in-la-may-be-due-to-rule-of-three/

Though the consensus around message boards seems to be that it doesn't just apply to student films - even if it did, with <3 crew I imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to pass yourselves off as a student crew, though I don't necessarily know the ins and outs of LA

:weird:

Personally, I can't think of too many times when we could keep our crew to <3 - A Director, DP and AC is already three and that's not including cast, AD, Sound, Prod Design etc.
But, if you were going for a real guerilla run-n-gun thing, you might get away with it.
 
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Conjecture upon myth upon “I know a guy who knows a guy”.

Some students at USC believe it exists. A three year old Blog from
New York says it exists for film students. A consensus around
message boards says this rule is in effect.

For me this isn’t enough to say for certain that this rule is in applies
or to say with any authority that a filmmaker working in Los Angeles
can use this rule when stopped by the police. FilmLA does not mention
this officially anywhere. LAPD, who would enforce any permit issues,
has no knowledge of this rule. Even the blog you link to says “a student
film needs no permit if the shoot involves cast and crew of three or
fewer people” - not a crew of three, as you mentioned.

I do know the ins and outs of shooting in Los Angeles - I’ve been
shooting here for many years. I can imagine USC being out of touch
with the realities of the business of filmmaking in Los Angeles. They
are quite narrow in their focus and live in the student world and
not the independent world of filmmaking.
 
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:weird:

To clarify I spoke to staff there, not students, but judging by what you say, that wouldn't necessarily make any difference...

It just seems really odd that a mythical rule has been magicked up into the consciousness of a whole lot of people...

But I cannot find anything on the Film LA website, and it does seem odd, if plausible at all to have 'secret rules' that they won't share with anyone.
 
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