Pirated Music in Festivals

M

mrchicago

I recently came in 2nd place in a film festival. I lost out to a film that was filled with illegal pirated music. This was extremely blatent since one scene was only music from a top 10 song. I know the people that made the film and I know that they don't even have festival rights to the songs.

When I requested that the film be disqualified I was told that since the person that submitted the film signed a statement saying that no pirated content was used that they would not disqualify the film. In fact they are advancing the film to a higher festival that they run knowing it contains illegal music. And my film was denied the advancement because it came in 2nd.

If they lied on their application about the content, shouldn't this be considered cheating?

I paid a lot of money for my music and it's not as good as stolen music.

Any suggestions?
 
umm..steal music, if there is such a thing :) lol nope i got no idea...tell the film festival runners to check it, get some paperwork or something
 
Depending on the size of Weasel Winner's pocketbook, it is possible they actually do have permission to use the various songs. Likely? No. Possible? Yes.

As far as what to do...

Look up the ASCAP/BMI affiliations of each of the artists "pirated" songs used. Then head to these sites...

www.ascap.com
www.bmi.com

I am spacing on the name of the third large one. Anyways, you will be able to inquire there about permissions granted/denied/ignored for the various artists. How much these companies do to protect their talent is up to them... they do not seem to be as proactive as the RIAA (hmmmmm) but they are responsible for protecting their clients' interests.

You should also provide links to the websites for both the festival, and the Weasel Winner's site in your enquiry. (Flagrant demonstration, especially if the proud winner has the winning film streaming from the site, with various accolades)

Now.. that's not going to win you a First Place Prize. It *will* make things "fun" for the current Weasel Winner and the festival itself... if it gets followed up on.

Now for the fun stuff...

Details on which festival (and which film) would be great to post... however, without confirmation of "weaselness" from somewhere, it is tantamount to "internet poo-flinging"... in this thread anyway. It would be very useful to know which festivals (and there are many of them) are holding themsleves to low credibility standards. (Saves everyone some submission fees, knowing where to avoid).

Sooooo, anyway.... there is probably a good forum on this board to announce having won Second Place... and where... and who won. (with a link or two). hint hint.

Btw... how many festivals "elevate" films to the next round? Sounds... odd.
 
Well, there's nothing wrong with trying to win legitimately.

Still... what value is the prestige of coming in second, when a first-place winner comes in using someone else's talent? I think that says a lot about the prestige of the actual festival.

Some festivals simply require a signed waiver, attesting that all clearances have been procured. The ones that carry weight (no slight intended) require documentation of clearances.

I think that MRCHICAGO is entitled to challenge his placing, when "stolen" material is used in the #1 spot... however, it is the integrity of the festival itself (and the documented procedure of what is required within) that will be anything of import.

Why bother fighting for a #1 spot, in a festival that apparently doesn't give a damn about artists' rights?

In any event, he certainly is mad... I've seen cross-postings of the same post on other messageboards already, in a variety of names/handles.
 
I understand that you're mad because it negatively affected your standings in the fest, but honestly....who cares. I think it was a dick move to try to disqualify the other person. What fest is it, Sundance? Who cares if you lost. Besides, you didn't even know for sure that they stole it.

I personally don't use stolen music, but I don't care what others do. Unless winning first would have changed your life or something, I think you're being a little too anal about it.
 
ZenSteve,

I did post on other boards. I try to use the same username on all boards but sometimes my regular name is taken.

This is a major long running festival. It is an Oscar qualifying festival. I was floored at the fact that they didn't care and the "wink wink" attitude towards pirated music.
 
Zen,

I don't want to burn any bridges just yet. I'm just making some post to find out my options.

And yes I do know for a fact that the music was stolen. The filmmaker actually told me. C'mon, he shot it on a consumer grade camcorder with the built in mic then used about a dozen top 10 hits to cover up the bad audio.

Music is such a crucial part of a film. What would "Pulp Fiction" be without the popular music? There were so many great songs that I would have loved to use in my film. Songs that the audiance knows and would relate to. But I was stuck with some less than great canned music. And I had to pay several hundred dollars in licensing for that.

I would equate it to paying to enter an essay contest and losing to someone that copied most of their work from World Book.
 
Okay...if you're not going to tell us what festival it was or who did what or what your movie is...I don't think we can truly help you. If the festival is (supposedly) oscar qualifying, the winner will have to change his music eventually. I say let it go, and stick to the grind until you get where you want to be. Worry about yourself, not others. Try to make the best films possible, not disqualify others. It's not illegal unless the music artist presses charges...LET IT GO. You lost. Next year.
 
It is still an illegal act even if no charges are filed. If someone hits me over the head and steals my wallet, that is a crime. The fact that I decide not to press charges does not make it any less of a crime.

We spent several thousand dollars on our short. We had a cast of 40 and a crew of 30. Most of them are looking to me for answers. We all watched the films at the festival and figured that the other film would be disqualified.

Me and my editor spent over 200 hours listening to libraries of licenesed music. If we could just pick songs we knew, it would have saved us weeks. Then we had to pay several hundred dollars for the music. I'm not even that thrilled with the music we are using, it's just really hard to find good legal music.

I don't think a level playing field is too much to ask for. If we are allowed to use illegal content, what's to stop someone from taking a scene from the Matrix and adding it into their film?
 
Wow. Okay. I can only respond to that by repeating myself:

Okay...if you're not going to tell us what festival it was or who did what or what your movie is...I don't think we can truly help you. If the festival is (supposedly) oscar qualifying, the winner will have to change his music eventually. I say let it go, and stick to the grind until you get where you want to be. Worry about yourself, not others. Try to make the best films possible, not disqualify others. It's not illegal unless the music artist presses charges...LET IT GO. You lost. Next year.
 
Easily 200. My editor owns a very large post facility. They have a couple rooms with nothing but music and FX CD's for post. For months we both crated around boxes of CD's listening to music in our cars, at home, on vacation. In those 200 hours I am including my wife's time. We finally gave up and used music that we were not to thrilled with.

That's why it's frustrating to see a film that uses The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Billy Joel, Aerosmith, Elton John and others. C'mon, I could score my kid's home movies with that music and win some festivals.

It's like losing a race to someone on steroids and person throws it in your face. Was he a better runner? Did the drugs make a difference? Who knows? But he was not playing by the rules. It was not a level playing field.

And now I'm repeating myself. Just because these groups don't know that their music is pirated, does not mean it is not illegal.
 
I can understand wanting to se a film disqualified if you've spent considerably more time and effort on yours and managed to legally acquire the rights to the music in your film. I'd be pissed as well. Then again, it could be construed as "sour grapes" to ask that the film be disqualified.

You only have control over so much of the course your film takes. If the festival judges and the winning filmmaker are friends, or if the winners somehow lucked into getting this far without tripping over legal issues, it doesn't mean their luck won't run out tomorrow. In the meantime, if you have a quality film, it'll be seen by the right people at the next festival and you'll have access to the opportunities you're pursuing.

I do admit, a "move to the next level, Oscar-qualifying" film festival is an odd bird. I also think that your massive cast and crew should have a better sense of irony about the whole thing, especially since they must realize that you have no control over the judging of the film, unless you schmoozed your way into the winner's circle. Rally the troops and carry on.
 
"And now I'm repeating myself. Just because these groups don't know that their music is pirated, does not mean it is not illegal."Yes it does.

They guy who used "illegal" music, obviously trusted you if he told you about it...then you turned him in?! Wow.

The "laws" were made to protect musicians, not you. And the festival rules are up to the festival creators, not you.

If it bothered you that much, you should have talked to the winner about it...not tried to disqualify him. No one is humble or honorable anymore. People are such cry babies nowadays.

You've got to understand that the judges blew you off because they thought that you were just jealous. Look at it from their point of view. You're the second placer.

WHAT FESTIVAL WAS IT? WHO USED STOLEN MUSIC? WHO ARE YOU? WHAT MOVIES WERE INVOLVED?

Your movie either isn't good, or the festival is not what you say it is, or something. Otherwise you would expose these facts.
 
And the festival rules are up to the festival creators, not you.
Click to expand...

Not true. The festival rules are part of a legal contract entered into between the festival and the filmmaker. I agree to pay an entry fee and in return the festival gives me certain guarantees. One guarantee is that it will operate by it's own rules. I looked at the rules again. It states that if a film that does not have rights to all it's media " it will not be allowed to screen and/or will be disqualified". Hey, that's their promise to me in writing. What's the problem with me holding them to their promise?
 
If it were me, I'd be pissed off too. Here are some things that you can do:

1) Look up the current rights holders of the music at ascap.com & bmi.com. Inform the rights holders (or better still, the lables) that their copyright has been infringed.
2) Get in touch with some of the other entrants in the festival & collectively ask for your entry fees back if the 'winner' is not disqualified (a lawyer may be a big help here, & the fee can be split among as many entrants as you can enlist).
3) Contact the local paper where the festival is held. While you're at it, contact some of the press that covers the industry (Variety, Hollywood reporter, Independent, etc.)
4) Contact the Academy. If this is a leg up to an 'Oscar qualifying' festival, then they need to know about these kind of issues.

Good luck!
 
OK, if any of you have been reading the Composer's Thread you will know my stand on this. But here's my 3 cents anyway:

BMI or ASCAP might help, but you should contact the Harry Fox Agency www.nmpa.org/hfa.html who issues the licensing for most "big hits". If they are the "administrating publisher" for the songs in question and a license was not requested by the filmmaker, let them know all that you know.

LOGAN seems to think it's only illegal if they get caught. What if someone used your original footage substantially in one of their films without asking? What if they beat you in a festival with it? You'd be as pissed I assure you. And please don't get into that "all-for-the-art" speech. You would be pissed. Sour grapes then?

Chicago, next time get a composer instead of spending those 200 hours on library music.
 
That's not really what I think. I don't use illegal music, but I really don't care if others do...and if someone beat me using it, I would count my losses and move on. Maybe you wouldn't, but I would. Worse things can and will happen to you in showbiz...pick your battles. There's more important things in life than winning a crappy festival. I would LET IT GO. That's all I'm saying. Don't be a sore loser. Just be happy. Worry about yourself, not others'.
 
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