Hey IndieTalk Brothers and Sisters, Just wanted to share my nausea with you cats. I have a clip in the narrative section (Indie Jonesing Clip) and as I mentioned I finally finished the film at a post facility here in Vancouver, BC. I brought it home to watch for the first time (uninterrupted) and man that is tough... I'd love to hear from some of you seasoned guys about how realistic your appraisal of your own work is, are we too tough on ourselves? Do you find yourself swearing you won't touch a camera again or do you love your work despite its multiple birth defects?
Peace,
Stefan

Do you find yourself swearing you won't touch a camera again or do you love your work despite its multiple birth defects?
Neither.

I am very, very hard on myself. I watch my work - usually
don't like it - and vow to do better next time.

I look at my stuff very critically, and take mental and written notes why something didn't work, and how to avoid the problems next time.

There wasn't a single video where i would fully accept it as "perfect" video.

But even though I know I could do it better - i still love every short that i've made. Even my very first one, "Desert Dreams". It was a vomit bucket, but I loved it because it shows how naive I was and thinking "Pshh, this is soo easy, don't know whats the big deal is about".

But yes. Love every short that i've made, hate the way it was made, and constantly looking forward to learn from the mistakes.

I find myself going "oh it's really good" oine minute and "WTF was I thinking" the next. I remember someone telling me a great movie was 2 great scenes and a few good ones all linked by mediocrity...

More so than directing, I'm highly critical of my acting. After I send eveyone home, I go back and reshoot to perfection. I'm rarely in a two shot for that reason.

I've cut entire scenes that didn't quite work that others might have let pass.

Neither.

I am very, very hard on myself. I watch my work - usually
don't like it - and vow to do better next time.

That's a wise choice. I shall repeat "I'll do better next time" a lot.

My producing partner is always saying that back in the day "the industry" developed directors, but nowadays if you don't come out of the starting gate with 90 minutes of cinematic perfection your chance at a sophomore feature is pretty slim. I've heard finding money for the second film is harder than the first.

My producing partner is always saying that back in the day "the industry" developed directors, but nowadays if you don't come out of the starting gate with 90 minutes of cinematic perfection your chance at a sophomore feature is pretty slim.
Too cynical for my tastes. While it's true that the old studio system
is long gone, "cinematic perfection" isn't what drives the current
studio system. It doesn't even drive independents.

I've heard finding money for the second film is harder than the first.
If your first lost money this is true. If your first film doesn't achieve
"cinematic perfection" but makes money it's pretty easy to get money
for the second.

I think directorik's philosophy has a lot to do with why he's a "film making guru" and we're all just members. That's not to say that people that share his philosophy aren't members too - but "it's no secret that ambition bites the nails of success."

There's a saying "No work of art is finished, only abandoned."
To that end I tend to keep working on something until I've either gotten what I personally needed out of the creation/exploration of the material - or until the client is happy.

Stephen King offered this advice in his book "On Writing" - Finish your first draft and then immediately put it in a drawer for four months. THEN appraise it.
That doesn't really work for me - four months later I'm usually working in a completely different genre and/or medium. And listening/watching/reading something I've done prior usually doesn't evoke feelings of "good or bad"; more an observation of where I was when I created it.

for client work of any kind - listening/watching/reading old things evokes either pride or guilt. (Either "I created that?? woah." or "they PAID me for that?? eek!")

Love every short that i've made, hate the way it was made

good way to put it.

The anonymity of the internet is a close tie. You want to see what people really think? Put it on youtube or get a trailer up on /Film or AintItCool... find some way to get a mass audience to see it, then compare those very brief and succinct thoughts to your own.

On the other hand, if you can actually get your feature trailer to /Film or AintItCool then you're in a strong, strong place. Most of the major publications won't look at the quality of work at our level.

You should be a very harsh and critical critic of your own work, there's no way to get better if expectations are easily met. What you should not do, which I am guilty of, is beat your product up in public, and you especially do not do it in front of someone who might be interested in backing you later on. It's something that I struggle with a lot, because ultimately I think I can do better than my first feature and plan on going right back out into the woods early next year to do it again, with less capital to prove it to myself.

At the end of the day, note what you don't like and then move forward with that criticism in mind.

Too cynical for my tastes. While it's true that the old studio system
is long gone, "cinematic perfection" isn't what drives the current
studio system. It doesn't even drive independents.


If your first lost money this is true. If your first film doesn't achieve
"cinematic perfection" but makes money it's pretty easy to get money
for the second.

Indeed. And, also, "money" is a very loose term as it is. Are we talking about LOTS of money or enough to go and do another feature, because the latter could be anywhere from 10K to 50K, and if you do a decent first feature regardless of what it made back or what it did not, you should be able to use the first one to raise at least 50K to do another one.

Keyword being decent, and decent probably means something in the range of Tiny Furniture-ish or on the other end (where genres like sci-fi, horror, etc are concerned) what... MOnsters I suppose? Don't really see a lot of ambitious nano budgets in that range.

It's always been my belief that creative people should find a balance between being their own biggest fan and biggest critic. We are our biggest fan because if we don't want to see/watch/hear our art, who else is going to? Make something that you want, and enjoy it. We are also our biggest critic, because we should constantly strive to improve.

And it's AWESOME when we see improvement in ourselves. Doubly so when we dig something out from 10 years ago, and find there's really a lot to like in it still!

So far in my little experience, I am very critical of my acting, some of my directing I like, some not, but I applaud my editing and love it.

So far in my little experience, I am very critical of my acting, some of my directing I like, some not, but I applaud my editing and love it.

Jeez we're similar, My editing is my favorite part of my movie. The other great thing about editing, is this is my first thing, short or feature that I ever completed and the first thing I edited period, I wish I'd done more editing cause it sure as hell is the best directing lesson I ever had. I know I'll be better next time cuz of it.
PS. Weird, Xmas eve and I'm writing on this forum - I'm feeling a little maudlin though guys, so forgive this: I gotta say it's nice to have found this site. I live REALLY isolated and as you can see from my verbose postings, I don't get to connect with any filmmakers on a regular basis. Happy Holidays. Whether you celebrate or not, I wish you guys a happy few days and a great, productive 2012.
Peace,
Stefan

I don't spend too much time looking into my own navel.

My rules so far:

Do what I can with what I have now.
Try something new every effort.
Embrace ambiguity.

Everything I make is the best I can do at that time and drives my improvement for the next one. I'm horribly critical of everything I do wrong, and wonderfully glowing about my successes, you can't forget that part -- it's the bit that drives you forward, chasing the excitement of the first thing you shot.

Embrace ambiguity.

LOL!!! I think I've discovered a window into your madness wheats. That is just a pure genius rule.

@Ziggy I think in general I like my work. I never think it's fantastic, but it's usually close to what I had expected, so I'm never really that disappointed. But that's primarily because I always aim low, in terms of what I direct. I don't write an epic for myself to direct. I write a simple conversation that I think I can get away with. So the only reason I don't disappoint myself is because I don't aim high enough...hmm

But other people are always telling me how much I suck :). So it keeps me in line.

Edit: Just wanted to add something. I think you should pay more heed to what the general audience thinks than to what other filmmakers think. Filmmakers can always rip apart your technique and style etc., and you can just as easily rip apart theirs. But these are things that the general audience may not even be aware of. But if they like it, then that's what matters more, I think.

Good luck with the movie.
aveek

I notice all the little things in my videos that most people never notice. It bugs me to death! But then I'm always very happy that I at least finished it and look at the positive aspects of the video and what I can improve on/what worked well for me.

Im thinking I need to be even more of a critic, cuz everything I have done so far is pretty bad....however, Im learning, but gotta get in the game for real and quit making excuses. Im creative and technically inclined, just need to focus and strive for more.

It sounds like a filmmaker with unexhaustable funding when the worry is more about being a tough enough critic rather than asking what can I make with X amount of money.

If all you can make with X amount of dollars is achieved. Be happy and call it a day. As a member here pointed out, the distributors don't put hope into productions under half a million dollars. Make the best that you can with the money that you have and hope it will be good enough to get someone to fund your next production. My goal is to make a production that turns a profit. That's why I opened a film making business. Try to set your focus on making each new production better than your last. Work with an experienced cast and crew and you can only improve. Don't be a loner. Bryan Singer recommends people starting out look to work with people more experienced than they are to help them get over the hurdles of the production.

A friend just asked me to borrow my lighting equipment. When I asked him exactly what type of lights is he looking for, he didn't know and wants to borrow all of my lights.

I suggested he hires a gaffer with a light truck. He said he doesn't have a Hollywood budget. He will learn as he goes along. I told him when the blind leads the blind, no one will learn anything as they go along. I recommended 2 local film schools and tolld him to see if he can find a student filmmaker with their own camera and some lights. The studnet filmmaker will at least be a help to them with solving lighting issues because the studnet has the resources of the school for advice on how to light their sets.

So, that's my take on how to improve.

I hate almost every single thing I make, and that is pretty much the only thing that pushes me forward. Knowing that I'm better that what I just made... that I can DO better.
If you find yourself saying that you won't ever touch a camera again, just because you think that you creation is rubbish... filmmaking is not for you.

I have given up on ever actually being happy with something I've done. Not to say I don't think I can do good work, but I always see so many things I'd like to do better next time that that becomes my focus.

Double-edged sword because while that drives you to move forward and it makes you improve a lot, it can be a bit of a bummer sometimes lol.

Like Missing said above I'm always happy when I've finished a product. Best high you can have fully clothed...

I told him when the blind leads the blind, no one will learn anything as they go along.

haha ummm.... thats is how with me... indietalk.com and google.com are my only sources of filmmaking information, of and books... a sh*t ton of books.


And everyday practice with filming, editing, audio, lighting or screenplay writing.

Am I my biggest critic? I don't know how to answer that. On one hand, there aren't any flaws in any of my movies that anyone has pointed out to me that I didn't already see. So, in that sense, yeah, I'm my own biggest critic, because I can honestly say that I've seen every tiny weakness, long before anyone else ever pointed it out, and I see many weaknesses that nobody has ever pointed out.

On the flip-side, I don't let that stop me from feeling proud of my work. I've made a couple of sucky short movies, but for the most part, I'm genuinely really happy with the work I've produced, and I'm not at all self-loathing as a filmmaker. As a general rule, I enjoy watching my movies.

For me, it's EXTREMELY important that the process of making a film is FUN!!! Why else are we doing it? Honestly, if you don't find your productions to be fun, then I think you're doing something wrong. And I mean that for every level of the art -- from zero-budget newbies, to mid-level indie filmmakers, to Hollywood pros -- if you aren't having fun, then why the hell did you get into this?

So, to that end, even when I'm watching a movie I made that I despise, I can at least reminisce on the good times we had, the things I did right, and the things I did wrong. Highly-critical? Yes. Self-loathing? Absolutely not.

No matter how much I hate my work, there's always someone out there who hates it more.
So, I'm at least my second-worst critic. :tongue:


_Rok_

No matter how much I hate my work, there's always someone out there who hates it more.
So, I'm at least my second-worst critic. :tongue:


_Rok_

Yeah exactly.

Like I said get a lot of people to watch your material, trailer whatever. By a lot I mean thousands and you'll find someone that is harsher than yourself. Doesn't matter if it's better than the average at your level, someone will chop your limbs off.

Haha.

most of us don't get that opportunity though.