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watch So I directed a pilot? hmmm

Big props to you for shooting a pilot. You put some good effort in to it.

That said,

You lost me at at about 2 mins. Sorry..

I say try again. No offense. You could do this 10 times better if you shot it again.

Theirs some funny writing going on, and some decent acting, but the timing is a bit off, which could be helped with editing. I wont go into the camera work, the sound seemed ok captured, but got messed up in the edit. Sorta some basic 101 issues that could be resolved with a bit of effort and study.
 
I agree with wheatgrinder, you'd be better off reshooting this and thinking it through again. There's some potential there (I'm guessing you're aiming at the Guy Ritchie audience), but it's riddled with poor decisions in terms of shot composition and camera work.

For example, in the opening shots alone, you have the shot of the one guy on the chair where's his entire body is on the left hand side of the frame and he's pointing outwards, when it's generally considered a good idea to leave space in the direction the subject is facing so you give the audience and area to focus on, even if there's nothing there. The shot of Bernie in the bath tub for some reason moves but keeps literally all the content in the shot the same, and at points has Bernie going off camera before settling on a shot where half his arm is off frame. Literally no idea why there's a half second shot of the gun either.

Skipping then to the long shot of them beating a guy up with the heavy metal music on in the background... I can understand why you did that. Contrast is often the basis of a lot of humour, but such a blatantly inconsistent change in style doesn't work well - for a good example of how to use contrast appropriately, look at this fight scene from Shaun of the Dead that is basically doing the same thing as you (emphasizing a fight scene with somewhat inappropriate music), but it keeps it all so consistent throughout that it makes it believable in the context of the film. In particular I didn't understand why you chose to focus on guns in the first scene, and then carry on with them punching the crap out of some guy with no weapon in sight - for the guy that seems to pride himself on his professionalism, it doesn't make sense for him to beat the guy up in public and then drag him away to a forest. The complete shift in style is completely off.

In my opinion, you definitely should have lead up to that scene - jumping straight from "let's go" to "beating up some guy" just doesn't sit right with me, and it feels rushed. The use of a long shot doesn't seem right, especially straight after a series of close ups in the apartment. What I tend to aim at when planning is to have at most two (more often just one) establishing shot for the scene, with little to no action in, but not lasting too long - of course that's not always appropriate either.

What I would suggest is looking more at the work of Guy Ritchie, especially Snatch (I'm not too big a fan of Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels but people tend to like that too), and analyzing the different scenes. With the scene where you have the three guys in the forest, you have the shots of the individuals speaking often with seperated subjects... I'm not sure if I said that right. Basically, you've got a lot of shots where you only have one person's face in it, whereas I think it'd be much more appropriate to have shots where they at least have the person each one is talking to in shot. The perspective of the scene is very important, and Ritchie tends to put in scenes with group perspectives - where there are obvious groups of different people, and the scene is clearly following them. For example, this scene in Snatch - you'll notice that when the two are talking to each other, the camera has both of them talking to each other in the same shot, and when Boris shows up and moves Tommy off camera the shot switches to contain both of the main characters once again, before temporarily following Boris away from the house as both of the characters focus on him.

Also, the sound of a sheep with them saying it's a pidgeon? What?

With the shots of Bernie shooting, it would have been more comical and believable in my opinion if you focused on the other guy's reaction as Bernie shoots off-camera - you'd avoid the technical problem of not being able to make a believable gun shot, as well as improve that scene.

Overall, one of your main problems is a lack of appropriate planning for your shots, as well as trying to shove to many shots in there. For a film that seems to be going with basically the same style as Guy Ritchie's Snatch, I'd definitely take a look at that film and the timing of shots - shots don't necessarily have to change between every single line of dialogue, nor every couple of seconds just for the sake of change up. The above scene I mentioned has the very long shot of the two characters talking, for example, and this scene in particular I quite like.

So yeah, better planning and a look at how to position subjects in your shots would go a long way to making this better. Here's a couple of links to get you started:

Lights Film School - Shot Composition and Framing
Lights Film School - Head Room and Lead Room
 
thanks, its horrible being told what you have done isnt that good but i suppose the honesty is the best thing for me.
 
The only way is up! It takes a while for people to really like their own work - I haven't reached that stage yet, but then again I've not even began proper work on my first short yet, just done course related stuff.

There is some good writing going on, and really each video will be a lesson to yourself with what to improve. The best thing to do is to look at the finished edit before you publish and analyze it for mistakes or problems. You'll get more and more used to that over time and it'll get to the point where you can look down at the plan during the pre-production stage and decide then and there what will and won't work. Remember, getting outside opinions on this kind of stuff isn't a bad thing (it's what this board is here for, after all), because at first it's really hard to look at something you've worked on and to see any mistakes - I think it's safe to say that mostly anyone here that has become good at making their films has been at the stage of either "self-amazement" (where they think everything they do is good) or "self-defeat" (where they think everything they do is bad). I'm at the self-defeat stage at the moment, but I'm not too upset by that, because it means I'll keep trying to improve.

It's much better to look at your own work and see the flaws than it is to see the achievements, in my opinion.

Just last year I was sitting amazed at how a narrow depth-of-field can make a shot look amazing, without taking into consideration anything else to do with the film opening I was meant to be making, which ultimately lead to me disliking the entire film except for that one shot. You live and learn.
 
I'm 10 years in and just getting to the point where I'm "happy" with my work... starting from almost no knowledge of the CRAFT part of filmmaking. That said, you tube and a ton of posts out on various forums will get your work seen, but then it has to be something of a quality or entertainment value that people will spread the word of mouth on... this is often the sticking point is that someone has a great idea, but lacks the technical chops to realize in a consistent manner (previously mentioned "good moments")... that comes with tons of practice and PAINFUL critiques (often from oneself with no illusions of one's own skill level).

Going to watch it now.
 
If you think it's brutal here on IndieTalk, where you are going to get constructive criticisms, wait until your stuff gets out there and people start ripping you to shreds just because they have fun doing that.

Regarding Guys comments about "group" shots you have to remember that life doesn't take place in a vacuum. When a character is alone it's obvious that s/he is alone; however, there should be some interaction with their environment. But when the character is interacting with others it's the interactions that are interesting; that's why you need 2-shots, over the shoulder, etc. to reinforce the interactive aspects of the relationships.
 
Practice makes perfect, as they say. My problem though is I never practice. The only thing I've shot so far is the two minute film opening last year for my media course (which was a terrible little short, but I made it to tick the boxes needed for an A grade), and I shot a tiny bit of my current media coursework today for a music video, which I'm rushing for the deadline on Friday, and then I'll work on the final piece properly in the coming weeks.

Beyond those two little bits, I've had no practice at all, but I have watched one hell of a lot of films and looked up a lot of things to do with composition and editing. In the space of one year I'm glad about the progress I've made, even without working on a short, as really it's a matter of learning what works and what doesn't. I remember taking it pretty badly last year when my teacher's insisted the area I wanted to shoot (the field used for sports lessons) looked too much like a school to use effectively, and that the script I had originally planned seemed too much like a scene from a film rather than an opening.

Really, coming here with the film is a great start - an outsider's opinion on your work, especially when you're starting out, will help you indefinitely, even if you don't necessarily agree with what they say. For example, if you like a particular scene in your film, but the overwhelming majority of your audience dislike it, then it's pretty clear that you'd be in the wrong - a good director would take the advice one board, a bad director would tell the audience they're wrong.

Of course, that all depends if you're aiming it at the right audience - luckily, IndieTalk is filled with actual film makers with their own unique likes and dislikes, and you can get exceptionally good help with your work here, even at the pre-production stage (plenty of people to look at your script and give an opinion on it).

Good to see that you're accepting there are faults in the film though :) The first step to becoming a better film maker is taking on constructive criticism!

Also, I agree with AlcoveAudio, the criticism people give here is more often than not constructive, whereas you always get people on YouTube and wherever just saying "THIS FILM IS TERRIBLE WHERE ARE THE EXPLOSIONS" no matter how good your film is.
 
One really quick fix that doesn't require reshooting is making sure all of your dialog is in the center. During the walk out to the woods, the dialog jumps from side to side in the soundscape and it doesn't always match the side of the screen the actor is on... so I think it is just an oversight in post.

Framing-wise, if two people are having a conversation, they should each occupy a part of the screen that allows the shots, when cut together, to have the characters looking at one another across the center-line of the screen.

There are some soft focus issues and some exposure issues, those will come with time.

Fun though, your comedic timing seems good in the cut.
 
Thanks. so in short, how would you rate this so far out of ten, by the way it is the first thing i've ever directed and i am no DoP.
Thanks.
 
compared to other stuff from first time folks trying to do to much on set, 5ish maybe 6...

On its own, knowing nothing about you, just looking at the product on its own merits, 4.

I've seen much worse, and I've seen better from folks in the same position you are... so take heart and move forward. (I've made worse ;) )
 
Im sensing that your not happy with the feedback. Your being cordial and all, but you seem disappointed? Dont be.

Some of my first footage postings here were very sad, and I thought they were great. Id guess we all go through something like that..

I recall fondly going through my "hey mom, look at this perfectly shaped turd in the bowl" phase... just kidding! :)
 
no, no the feedback is honest and i like that I show my mates and they are like 'yeah thats good' and i don't really know what they think because they are too scared to tell me what they really mean out of fear of hurting my feelings. I am not a Director of photography, i'm not even a director, im a write who just wants to make a web series and have a laugh. But i really do take filmmaking serious, i have just applied to film school so i can't wait to see if i'll get in. Fingers crossed
 
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