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sound equipment help

V

var

Hello! I' m new to film making and film making forums. I think it is an excellent platform for new comers like me. now, to the real problem. i've always been interested in film making and documentaries and recently, i got the chance to step in the field. there is a competetion here for making a 25 minute documentary with your mobile phone ( weird i know) but it is college campus thing! Though they say that the docu can be made with the cellphone and luckily i've a nice phone which can shoot upto 720p and gives out excellent quality. My problem is that the sound quality is no good. And the rules don't say anything about using external equipments ( i checked by asking too!) i've to take some interviews and some outdoor shots. So, my question is how do i solve the audio problem? Being a student i'am on a budget.
Any help is highly appreciated. So ACTION!! :lol:
Thank you!
 
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Mmm... 25 minutes of documentary on a phone? Sounds interesting, its even weirder than me making a 2 minute action movie trailer style video for my university's video competition. Lol, but that time i was about to use a canon 60D

Anyway, so what's your budget? And what sound equipments have you already got?
 
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My guess is that some entries will have music and/or sound fx added in the edit, and those were not recorded with the onboard audio, so with that in mind, why should dialog have to be recorded with the on-camera audio? Maybe ask the contest host if you can add pre-recorded music and you'll have your answer to recording dialog wth external equipment.

Another option is to find someone else with a phone, and get it close in to record the dialog while using other other phone, from a distance appropriate for proper framing to record the image. Then synch in post.

var said:
Hello! I' m new to film making and film making forums. I think it is an excellent platform for new comers like me. now, to the real problem. i've always been interested in film making and documentaries and recently, i got the chance to step in the field. there is a competetion here for making a 25 minute documentary with your mobile phone ( weird i know) but it is college campus thing! Though they say that the docu can be made with the cellphone and luckily i've a nice phone which can shoot upto 720p and gives out excellent quality. My problem is that the sound quality is no good. And the rules don't say anything about using external equipments ( i checked by asking too!) i've to take some interviews and some outdoor shots. So, my question is how do i solve the audio problem? Being a student i'am on a budget.
Any help is highly appreciated. So ACTION!! :lol:
Thank you!
Click to expand...
 
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If you're on a super-tight budget, and if it's okay for the microphone to be in frame, then I'd go with something like the Blue Snowball mid. I got mine for $65, and it just hooks up to your laptop via usb. Make sure that wherever you're recording your interviews has good sound quality (no big empty rooms), and you can probably get sound that will be better than 90% of anyone else in the contest has.
 
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@ synia 2 minute action movie trailer sounds awesome, sorry i don't have any equipment just as yet. :s

@gpforet yes you are right some pre - recorded music will go with it, but like i said this is my first attempt. so my skills are limited. i can do the basic sound adding with some stock music but i don't think i can mix and sync "speaking audio" like you said. So, i'ld prefer it if it were with the source.

@cameronchapman no sorry, the mic's can't be shown in the video. though, i might use that mic for adding my voice and recording podcasts later, thanks. could you also recommend or prefer some others like those. what's the noise cancellation on that thing and how's the quality?

@ alcove audio and everyone --> i've a shoe string budget so i can't trip over it!! i'ld fall! sorry i should have mentioned this earlier, i did some currency conversion and maybe i can spend 70-90( U.S $ this is at the max i can spend right now!) and if i spend this much i'ld want to buy equipment which would help in the future also. what can i do i'am a student but really want to get into docu making. plus here i don't see anything to lose as it'ld be good practice for me.
here's what i thought, how about a clip on mic? they are pretty cheap too. has anyone used them? any preferences? this is just what i thought, i don't know if they'ld be able to record with the phone if i insert one end in the 3.5mm jack? even if they do then the problem of outdoor shots will come as i don't think they work well while the object is moving, right? or is there a "work around" i can do with that? any ideas? has anyone made any movies or docu with their phone?

thank you all for replying i really appreciate your comments and your time. :)
 
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There's nothing in the under $100 range that I would care to recommend - to me it's like trying to pick between dog crap and cat poop. There's plenty of cheap gear out there; you'll have to decide what will fit your project best. A wireless system for under $70 is going to be fraught with potential problems. Taping a cheap mic onto a broom stick may be the better way to go.

Just for fun I did a quick search:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/electronics/cee3/
 
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My suggestion would be to pick up a used Zoom H1. I checked out completed listings on ebay for used Zoom H1s, and they end between $40 and $90 with many auctions below your $70 mark. You can keep the audio recorder just out of frame or hidden by an object, and capture some really nice sound for the price.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
A wireless system for under $70 is going to be fraught with potential problems.
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Never, Ever, Ever Go with a wireless system that's under $1000, especially clip on mics. I help out with the sound at my church. We bought one of those cheap clip on mics just to see how it is. The signal was aweful, so much noise when the person moves around, and the sound! It's like listening to badly tuned, old fashioned radio, that's almost out of battery and signal range. The lows are completely gone, the mid is too loud, and the highs are harsh and piercing.

And anything is probably batter than the mic on a phone from a distance. So if you go to any electronic store and pick up a computer mic for about $100. Put a laptop next to the people speaking, and have soundone hold the mic just out of range, it should give you decent results.
 
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Synia -

You most likely had the mic improperly placed.

The sound you get from someone moving around makes me suspect - did you just clip it under a shirt or something? First of all, if it's under cloth, of course it will sound dull. Second, you need to put either some gaffer tape or surgical double-sided tape to hold the cloth still around the mic so you don't get that rustling.

From my experience, a skilled recordist can take a low-quality mic like that and place it properly and get workable audio.

Too often I have heard "This mic sucks" or "This mic is horrible - don't use it" from people who had it placed either backwards or completely wrong. I'd take another shot at it if I were you. Just hold it in front of someone's mouth - it either sounds good or not.

I would scratch the laptop idea... That would probably sound worse than the clip-on mic.
 
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ROC said:
Synia -

You most likely had the mic improperly placed.

The sound you get from someone moving around makes me suspect - did you just clip it under a shirt or something? First of all, if it's under cloth, of course it will sound dull. Second, you need to put either some gaffer tape or surgical double-sided tape to hold the cloth still around the mic so you don't get that rustling.

From my experience, a skilled recordist can take a low-quality mic like that and place it properly and get workable audio.

Too often I have heard "This mic sucks" or "This mic is horrible - don't use it" from people who had it placed either backwards or completely wrong. I'd take another shot at it if I were you. Just hold it in front of someone's mouth - it either sounds good or not.
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You may be very well correct about the placement, because we've never used one of those before and simply clipped it on to the collar of the shirt when we used the mic. The rustle seemed to be from brushing against some fabric while whoever wears it moves around. The sound also fade away quickly if the speaker turns away from the mic, which happens with every mic, except with the clip on, the speaker can't really adjust it themselves.

And yes, we did try just holding it in front of someone's mouth, it sounds better than having it clipped on. After some EQ-ing, it can sound OK, but we just decided that if you have to hold it, and even when you hold it, it doesn't sound all that great, then it's not really worth the money.

But yes, absolutely, it's always about the person not the tool, thought having good tool sure helps, haha

Edit: But are you sure about clip-on mic with receiver and recorder for $90 sounds better than a computer mic for $90 with laptop? $90 is the budget right?
 
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For sure a good tool helps.

But try this:

Put it just on the inside of the collar of the t-shirt - not the flap of the lapel. Put it close so it's on the inside of the shirt where the top button would button together. You might find it sounds better there. That's where I usually place it if you don't mind if you see it on camera - for a PA situation it works well. Pull the cord up and loop it around once and tape it there so that a tug on the cable doesn't rip the mic from it's position and make sure the mic is secure. Then run the cable through the back of his shirt inside and plug it into the transmitter.

Careful not to put it directly in the center of his chest. This is a rookie mistake that I've seen a million times. Reason why is that it sounds horrible down there - and the air from "S" sibilance goes straight downwards. (try it. Hold your hand under your chin and say the words "Sally sold seashells by the sea shore" and you'll feel air going directly down toward where the mic would be)

Also, good example of handling a lapel tonality to sound acceptable is the movie Saving Private Ryan after the beach scene and Miller (hanks) is receiving his next orders and is talking about his day and the minefield - he's pointing at a map and turns back and forth between it and the commander he's talking to - his lapel is stationary but his head moves and I can hear it as plain as day but it's less noticeable to viewers because they mixed it nicely. Check it out if you want, good example of what you were talking about that was totally acceptable.
 
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ROC said:
For sure a good tool helps.

But try this:

Put it just on the inside of the collar of the t-shirt - not the flap of the lapel. Put it close so it's on the inside of the shirt where the top button would button together. You might find it sounds better there. That's where I usually place it if you don't mind if you see it on camera - for a PA situation it works well. Pull the cord up and loop it around once and tape it there so that a tug on the cable doesn't rip the mic from it's position and make sure the mic is secure. Then run the cable through the back of his shirt inside and plug it into the transmitter.

Careful not to put it directly in the center of his chest. This is a rookie mistake that I've seen a million times. Reason why is that it sounds horrible down there - and the air from "S" sibilance goes straight downwards. (try it. Hold your hand under your chin and say the words "Sally sold seashells by the sea shore" and you'll feel air going directly down toward where the mic would be)

Also, good example of handling a lapel tonality to sound acceptable is the movie Saving Private Ryan after the beach scene and Miller (hanks) is receiving his next orders and is talking about his day and the minefield - he's pointing at a map and turns back and forth between it and the commander he's talking to - his lapel is stationary but his head moves and I can hear it as plain as day but it's less noticeable to viewers because they mixed it nicely. Check it out if you want, good example of what you were talking about that was totally acceptable.
Click to expand...

I see, thanks for the advices, i'll be sure to check out the scene you mentioned if i can find it. And will definitely be trying out the mic again next time i'm on sound, if i can find where they put it that is....
 
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ROC said:
Saving Private Ryan
Click to expand...

What a fantastic sound design and mix. Gary Rydstrom, Richard Hymns, Gary Summers and Andy Nelson did an unbelievable job, the Oscars for Best Effects, Sound Effects Editing, and Best Sound were well deserved. I personally think that it deserved the Best Sound Mix Oscar over "Titanic", which also had fantastic sound.
 
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@Alcove as did I. As did I.

I have probably watched it easily over 100 times to fully grasp how they created the soundscape and I still don't know how they did it.

But I remember crystal clear that scene with Hanks and the lapel mic which was obviously switching from on/off axis.
 
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It's not unusual to blend it with a little of the boomed mic. The hard part is avoiding combing and/or phasing.

You don't mind the off-axis sound; if we actually pay attention real life sounds like that, so we don't really mind or notice that much. Mics are so directional that they exaggerate the effect.
 
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HAHA! Maybe it was a music mixer I worked with once. He's a jokester. I remember it now.

It was in a room we were checking out to mix an album in. He walked in and said "There is so much comb filtering of the bass in this room I can part my hair in here."
 
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