A good DSLR lens for low light/multiple changing lights?

T

theclash4u5

In a venue like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2SlOm0tqC8

click here <-- if it doesn't show up..

What kind of lens would you recommend on a Panasonic GH2 that could deal with the low-light and random changing bright lights? I've looked into the Panasonic Lumix 20mm f/1.7, but I was also told to check out the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4 (although most people I talked to use that with a Cannon). Most likely I'll be filming at a wider angle than that, so that I could fit in the entire band (while also zooming in to get each person), but how would I avoid a weird motion blur from the lights?
 
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I've never used either of those lenses (or the camera), but the difference between f1.7 and f2.8 is pretty big. I'd go with the f1.7.

How to avoid weird motion blur? I'm not 100% sure we're on the same page, but to avoid motion blur, you'd use a faster shutter speed. But you should get "normal" motion blur at 1/60.
 
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Im actually looking at vintage lenses. They are cheaper than modern and some even rival them. from what im told (at least with the t3i ) the problem with the DSLR cameras they have a problem with the f stop changing. with vintage you do not have that issue. You set the ap and fstop at it stays.... that is at least what im getting out of it from my research! One of the best wide angle vintage lens im seeing (that is afordable) is a Helios 44m. It is a russian made lens but its sought after. Be warned most of these on ebay are being sold in Russia and Great Britton.

There is also the mir but thoes are just as if not more expensive as a modern lens.

here are some examples i found

Helios 44M 58mm f2
http://vimeo.com/10942299

MIR-24M
http://vimeo.com/13866779

sot with the Helios
hhttp://vimeo.com/14989036

Vivitar 35-105 3.5
http://vimeo.com/15388151

here is a low light video..something i think you were looking for.
http://vimeo.com/13346965

just my 2 cents but i think im only going to get 1 modern and a few vintage ones!
 
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Just a thought, but with all those lights you'll probably want to buy/build a matte box to prevent glare and lens flares.

Oh, and where will you be filming from? The stage? The audience?
 
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You probably want a zoom lens with a large aperture. Zoom so u dont have to change lenses in the middle of songs and a large aperture for the low light conditions. Unfortunately, that combination means high prices.

And if ur looking at older lenses, make sure they have manual options/will work iwht ur body.
 
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On a GH2 there is nothing WIDE about the helios 45m I have one. On the GH2 crop its best just to DOUBLE the focal length on the old glass. 90mm is telephoto.

The zenitar 16mm is pretty wide on the GH2.

Any 28mm lens will be OK..
 
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Ernest Worthing said:
You probably want a zoom lens with a large aperture. Zoom so u dont have to change lenses in the middle of songs and a large aperture for the low light conditions. Unfortunately, that combination means high prices.

And if ur looking at older lenses, make sure they have manual options/will work iwht ur body.
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Yeah, you definitely want a zoom in a situation like that.

This is going to sound weird, but you (Clash) might get some mileage from something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...mm+zoom&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1311

With a mount like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cooke-Arri-...671?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a699e1bdf

And shooting in ETC mode.

Not the best case scenario, but iirc there aren't any fast zooms out there native to the format. Any other zoom for Canon/Nikon EF cameras that is T2 or better is going to be pretty spendy.

Just a thought.

There might be something in standard 4/3 in the realm of a fast zoom, but idk. There are also BNCR mounts that let you run broadcast lenses from 2/3 cameras, again in ETC mode. But those lenses were designed for 3CCD cameras, so there can be aberration (or something or other, an image defect to out of it to remember which one) when using them in a single CMOS cam. Still an interesting looking image, and some lenses don't show it at all at most focal lengths.
 
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Cracker Funk said:
I've never used either of those lenses (or the camera), but the difference between f1.7 and f2.8 is pretty big. I'd go with the f1.7.

How to avoid weird motion blur? I'm not 100% sure we're on the same page, but to avoid motion blur, you'd use a faster shutter speed. But you should get "normal" motion blur at 1/60.
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Sorry, I'm not really familiar with DSLRs and filming in low light, but I just assumed with tons of different lights movement that there would be more motion blur/loss of focus than usual. Maybe I got my thoughts more mixed up with glare/lens flare.

Dreadylocks said:
Just a thought, but with all those lights you'll probably want to buy/build a matte box to prevent glare and lens flares.

Oh, and where will you be filming from? The stage? The audience?
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Good point, I completely forgot to check out a matte box. I'll have to look into that as well.

I'll usually be filming in the audience or behind the audience, and in a club/bar like this, it's not THAT big if you were to film everyone. This video shows a view from the stage, and you can see that the stage isn't that far away from the back of the room. Then again, this isn't the only place I want to film at, but it will be one of my main places if everything works out as planned.

Ernest Worthing said:
If you provide more details about ur budget, style of final product and goal of final product, the advice you would get would be more specific to ur actual needs.
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My budget for this starting lens would be anywhere from $300-$700, most likely. So far, my eye is on the 20mm 1.7 due to it's great reviews for lo-light/indoor environments.

The goal of this is to build up a portfolio of live music clips that I can film and edit myself, which hopefully leads to bigger and better things (a career more geared towards editing). But I'm not planning to just point and film on a tripod for 2 hours, I guess I would edit some of the songs to make it look like one giant live music video (with different zooms and angles). And of course, all of this will be 100% free to the venue and bands, but they can feel free to use it on youtube or their respective websites.

That's just one of my ideas, at least. I figured the best way to get your name out there is to start doing things for free and go from there.
 
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My videoagraphy teacher from last year does this as a part time job...but at large shows..I recomend you get premission from the band to get onstage a little to get some shots (if there is room!). You are doing this for free for them so at least you should have access to the stage a little. Just remind them its for their benifit as well! It dosent need to be for the whole show..wait about 3 songs into it then get the stage shots..at that point the band sould be warmed up and grooving!
 
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theclash4u5 said:
The goal of this is to build up a portfolio of live music clips that I can film and edit myself, which hopefully leads to bigger and better things (a career more geared towards editing). But I'm not planning to just point and film on a tripod for 2 hours, I guess I would edit some of the songs to make it look like one giant live music video (with different zooms and angles). And of course, all of this will be 100% free to the venue and bands, but they can feel free to use it on youtube or their respective websites.
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One other thing - Live performance really benefits from multiple cameras. Last time I did something like this I only had 2 cameras, and lamented not having a 3rd.

Edit:

For kicks I decided to try finding a fast zoom in 4/3 format just to see what was out there. So far I came up with this:*

http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-Zuiko-14-35mm-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000X1P5R4

* - It does require the adapter shown to go from 4/3 to m4/3. But for a whopping 3 grand! :(

Not sure what a comparable Canon/Nikon modern lens would go for though.
 
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David.rhsc said:
One other thing - Live performance really benefits from multiple cameras. Last time I did something like this I only had 2 cameras, and lamented not having a 3rd.

Edit:

For kicks I decided to try finding a fast zoom in 4/3 format just to see what was out there. So far I came up with this:*

http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-Zuiko-14-35mm-Digital-Cameras/dp/B000X1P5R4

* - It does require the adapter shown to go from 4/3 to m4/3. But for a whopping 3 grand! :(

Not sure what a comparable Canon/Nikon modern lens would go for though.
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Yikes! Well then, looks like that might as pushed me to go with the Panasonic 20mm 1.7 :lol:

And I agree that I should go with multiple cameras, but frankly I just don't have the money or the people yet. Besides, I can easily take one song from one angle, and then another from another angle, and edit it to make it look like one song. Like I said, I'm doing this free, all I'm asking is for their permission to record it (and to let me in for free, hopefully). I'm not sure, I'm thinking all of this up as I go, heh.
 
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theclash4u5 said:
Yikes! Well then, looks like that might as pushed me to go with the Panasonic 20mm 1.7 :lol:

And I agree that I should go with multiple cameras, but frankly I just don't have the money or the people yet. Besides, I can easily take one song from one angle, and then another from another angle, and edit it to make it look like one song. Like I said, I'm doing this free, all I'm asking is for their permission to record it (and to let me in for free, hopefully). I'm not sure, I'm thinking all of this up as I go, heh.
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Just my 2 cents on the subject, but I wouldn't necessarily try and edit together several shots from different songs, unless you're trying to do a montage for, say, a documentary or promo.

I usually pay quite a bit of attention to the what the band members are doing, and I'd be a little bit irked if I saw that it wasn't synced up properly. And seeing as how they'll be playing different tempos, using different song parts for every song, and so on, it would most likely come across very obvious that that what you're seeing isn't what you're hearing.

What I'd personally suggest is, since you only have the one camera, just do one continuous shot. If I'm watching a live video of a band playing, I'm paying 99% attention to the actual band itself. So if you want to augment it w/ your camera work, pre-plan what they'd want to see (faces, fingerwork, the reso head of the bass drum vibrating, crowd's reactions, etc), and how you can pan from one to the other as smooth as possible.

Careful w/ zoom lenses though. On many of the cheaper ones, when you zoom in, your aperture jumps up a stop, and there's a noticeable, immediate drop in light.

If you can plan through these problems, the shooting will go loads smoother. :D
 
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eivashchenko said:
Just my 2 cents on the subject, but I wouldn't necessarily try and edit together several shots from different songs, unless you're trying to do a montage for, say, a documentary or promo.

I usually pay quite a bit of attention to the what the band members are doing, and I'd be a little bit irked if I saw that it wasn't synced up properly. And seeing as how they'll be playing different tempos, using different song parts for every song, and so on, it would most likely come across very obvious that that what you're seeing isn't what you're hearing.

What I'd personally suggest is, since you only have the one camera, just do one continuous shot. If I'm watching a live video of a band playing, I'm paying 99% attention to the actual band itself. So if you want to augment it w/ your camera work, pre-plan what they'd want to see (faces, fingerwork, the reso head of the bass drum vibrating, crowd's reactions, etc), and how you can pan from one to the other as smooth as possible.

Careful w/ zoom lenses though. On many of the cheaper ones, when you zoom in, your aperture jumps up a stop, and there's a noticeable, immediate drop in light.

If you can plan through these problems, the shooting will go loads smoother. :D
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Well, agreed. But it's hard to do one continuous shot of the entire concert if I'm stick in the middle of the audience, or if I'm not allowed to use a tripod. What would you recommend I use to keep it smooth as possible? I've looked into many different rigs, but I'm not sure which one would fit my budget, while still meeting my filming demands.

The point of this isn't really for the bands or the bar/club (at least, in the beginning), but instead is something that will allow me to make something like promo clips for my future portfolio. So if I have to cut and edit something to make it to look better...then that's something I'll have to deal with, even if it doesn't look totally in sync. I figure that the other shots I would use from other songs would just be shots of the crowd, or zoomed in shots of the drums, guitar, etc.

To be honest, this is still a work in progress (along with my camera + equipment). I'm ready to take the jump, but it's hard to with so many variables in the bar/club...At least the longer I wait, the more $$ I can add to my budget! :lol:
 
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When you get with each band before hand, ask them which songs are their favorites and which ones the crowd really gets into. That way, you can shoot the best song uncut and shoot the crowd during a different song. Make sure to find out if any of the band members solo during the song and at which point in the song it happens so that you can plan your shots/closeups accordingly. You should also listen to the band's demo/album so you can sync your shooting to the song better.

Best of luck.
 
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