Hi, I just have a question for everyone. Even if it doesn't apply to you pretend it does because I want your opinion too.
Here goes it
If you were looking for someone to do a job for you be it lighting, any part of the production aspect, editing whatever. Would you rather have someone who has a piece of paper that says they know how to do it (a degree :wink: ) or would you accept someone with knowledge and some experience?
So basically what I am asking, is knowledge enough or do you "need" that degree to get anywhere?
Thank you in advance for any comments
09-26-2003, 01:29 PM
I would take knowledge anyday. The problem is, that degree says that you have knowledge, just like the guy with a decent resume. The real question is, how much knowledge is enought to forget about a lack of degree?
09-29-2003, 10:51 AM
that's so true poke. thanks for the thought.
come on people no one else has an opinion?
09-29-2003, 01:37 PM
I think we do have an opinion but this topic is so over posted on several boards, Iím just plain tired of talking about it. Poke is right.
09-29-2003, 06:11 PM
Ultimately, I would rather have someone with experience, because that is they way I've learned, and I firmly believe one truly learns by "doing" - actual hands-on - doing it, making mistakes, etc.
I personally am not too tired of this question, because it seems to be "the" question and debate. The problem is you need both in the "real" world - whatever that is. :? There is no such thing as graduating from "Hard Knocks U" and hoping that's good enough, because there is always going to be someone sitting across a board-room table who has all the degrees, and expects you to have one too! PERIOD!
Ultimately, I think you'd be smart doing both: getting all the hands-on experience you can, and going to "some" film school and getting a degree. I mean - most of the big shots out there, and even the little shots :P come from the time when "if you wanted to do something, you went to school and learned how to do it." I think there are rules, and we all have to either play by them, or be banished by them.
Just my opinion.
09-29-2003, 06:50 PM
True, but the film industry didnít think that TV would destroy the studio system. Nor did they think that video was a viable medium. Nor did they think that DV would take off. Education is changing, and I think that once the old guard leaves and the generation that hasnít experienced black and white TV nor a card catalog in a library gains dominance, no one will question that hands on experience is as effective if not more than schooling. Personally I think nepotism is a bigger problem than educational credentials.
09-30-2003, 07:27 AM
Nepotism is unfair, unjust, career-killing, aspiration-squashing, anti everything! To give favor to a freakin - no account, no experience, no education, lazy-ass relative over someone who has put the time and effort into their passion screws with everything I believe in! You touched on a real important point "film8ker".
I deal with nepotism in the company I work for now - and it sucks! I am a past victim of nepotism, and I am sure I will be again in the future.
Take those dogs outside and beat them hard, bag em' and let them rot! That's pretty much my view on people who practice nepotism. I personally hope I never guilty of it.
Overall, perhaps you're right - but I think the "elite-thinkers" out there who (through nepotism) or just favoritism - - as long as the powerful positions in hollywood are "passed" onto them - like an inheritance - we are all in trouble.
AND LET'S KEEP INDEPENDENT FILM INDEPENDENT! NO MIXING WITH MAINSTREAM HOLLYWOOD! What's happening to Sundance!
Sorry...got off on a tangent.
My word - I'm done.
09-30-2003, 02:46 PM
you guys are so artsy fartsy in your lingo. all i wanted to know is if YOU were hiring someone for a job what would YOU want experience or a degree. that's all. i know it's over posted but opinions change and people change their minds all the time.
09-30-2003, 11:35 PM
All the stuff they are saying falls under the realm of your question.
10-01-2003, 03:03 PM
...but i just wanted simple answers. not big long freak out explanations of the old ways and new and favorism, and such. don't get me wrong i agree with everything that was written but it was a little off topic.
10-01-2003, 05:36 PM
Hoit you asked for opinions and that's what they gave you.
10-02-2003, 07:00 PM
If _I_ was hiring, I would give the highest consideration to those people who can SHOW me what theyíve done. If someone shows me a good demo, I donít really care whatís on the paper. Iím constantly surprised how many people who consider themselves filmmakers donít have demo reels. Unfortunately not all positions can do this. Lacking visual demonstration, I lean more towards work experience. Thatís why I think including a credit list with a resume is important. I mean, I went to college and according to my transcript I learned statistics, but I couldnít apply any of that knowledge now. There are lots of slack asses out there that learn how to work the system and can graduate with just about any degree, but that doesnít mean they know what theyíre doing. If they have a lot of credits under their belt, theyíve learned first hand about how to overcome problems that may arise during production.
12-11-2003, 05:31 PM
I know Im a little late here. The topic has probably died down. But heres my 2 cents anyway. I think the question is too vague. All we know about MAN A is that he has a degree? All we know about MAN B is that he has knowledge and experience?
Doesnt take a rocket scientist to choose MAN B.
A degree, by itself, leaves questions. Depends on many things. What kind of degree? What did it take to earn the degree? From what school? Not all film schools are the same, extremely narrow minded and naive to think so - huge variety ranging from pathetic waste of time to invaluable, depending on, among other things, what you want from the school, your perspective, and did you try to meet the school halfway, or further? Or did you waste away your nights on Playstation?
My view on film school is dont go expecting them to really teach you. They will, but not as much as youd like to think (usually). I think film school is best for those who already have a solid understanding of what they want to do. Most are in fact structured this way, requiring applicants to provide reels/resume/portfolio. Many reasons for that, one being so that once you begin your first school project - it wont be so much of a learnng expeience and pehaps strengthen your portfolio/resume/reel. Also youll most likely take school seriously and not waste anybody's precious tme.
You can learn and gain experience before school by:
-writing(scripts) its free or very cheap
-shooting a few no-budget shorts
-helping out others for free
-reading (THIS IS A BIG HELP. It makes me laugh how many people actually think they cant learn about filmmaking from books. Sure, not ALL books are helpful. Do a little research - ebay, the internet, plenty of sites recomend and give synopsis and review of books - too lazy and/or impatient? then give up now....or cotinue, make my competition that much softer (I actually hate thinking of fimmaking as competition - I dont take any awards seriously) Sure actually doing sometiing is great. But wouldnt it be greater if you brushed up on the subject first. Books are jst "writte text" - they wont bte you. Try operating an unfamiliarcamera wthout reading te manual first. The manual is just "written text."
Then, when attending film school, go for a Masters. That way you can also teach film in college. Good thing to able to do, something to fall back on, except is still film related and working at a school gives you access to people and equipment. So its not really "falling back." You cant lose. You have the summer off to work on your projects, plus one-month winter-break (usually). Can find time to do that during school year, too.
Masters takes time and work-yes. But again, the entire film industry requires patience and hardwork. Besides the abilty to teach, Masters is just more comprehensive, better.
Of course tution can be a problem. So all depends on your budget. But as a fim-teacher, you have job security to pay off student loans. I try not to let money stand in my way. (No Im not rich. I come from a low-middle class blue-collar background.)
So if MAN A has earned a Masters degree from tough film school and is a real -getter,hthen I give him som credibilty.
But that's just my opinion. Many probably disagree. And thats fine.
Before you poke holes in my opinion, make sure you've read what I've written carefully :shock: :roll: