View Full Version : GH2 hacked


brianluce
05-24-2011, 04:33 AM
GH2 is currently, by most accounts, the best DSLR in terms of video capability. The gap is about to grow even bigger as soon, possible within days, we can expect increased bit rates, 4:2:2 color space, and other goodies. Score another for the Rooskies.

wheatgrinder
05-24-2011, 10:58 AM
For those playing along at home, the thread to watch is below, Its another forum, but its not a film making one so its ok..(istn it?)

The developer of the Hack is Vitaliy_Kiselev

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/50/official-gh2-stalin-hack-development-topic/p4

calif0rnian
05-24-2011, 12:38 PM
Sorry that I'm going off topic somewhat, and this has probably been asked before but I can't find any good information on it.

Question: Why is the GH2/GH1 considered better for video? What makes them better? I thought they had smaller sensores, making the crop a much more factor?

wheatgrinder
05-24-2011, 02:03 PM
yeah, its a bit of a religious war, and "better" is such a relative term as to be meaningless.

My personal top 5 reasons GH2 is better than a Cannon crop sensor cam (T2i, T3i, 7D etc)


Electronic View Finder that works for video
Less aliasing
Hi Def out the HDMI port during recording
Longer record time (US Models only)
No over heating


Most of these issues can either be overcome or at least worked around with the other cameras, and are not DEAL BREAKERS for the cannons to be GREAT video platforms, but for me, those differences make the GH2 work for me.

There are more technical reasons, the video IS sharper etc. But the usability issues are my big hang up.

brianluce
05-24-2011, 09:01 PM
Sorry that I'm going off topic somewhat, and this has probably been asked before but I can't find any good information on it.

Question: Why is the GH2/GH1 considered better for video? What makes them better? I thought they had smaller sensores, making the crop a much more factor?

A big thing for me is that the GH2 doesn't alias and isn't plagued with moire. Big problem with the Canons. The Canons also have astonishingly bad audio.

There are also a lot more lens options for a GH2 is you're into vintage glass.

GH2 also has better resolution.

PM me if you'd like to join and become one of us.

wheatgrinder
05-24-2011, 09:23 PM
The biggest negative about GH2... they dont exists. ;) Good luck finding one. Took me months of back order, and that was before the earth quake!

brianluce
05-24-2011, 09:41 PM
The biggest negative about GH2... they dont exists.

The fact they don't exist is a bit of cop out. You shouldn't let a minor issue like non existence stop you from making a movie with the GH2.

calif0rnian
05-24-2011, 09:45 PM
Maybe I should get a GH2 as my second camera. I've been thinking about getting a 7D ( got I just can't stop buying lenses and shit)... even though they're cheap, and I haven't bought anything in months... but it's an addiction. :/

You'll see me on Intervention, trust me!


So basically the GH2 = more lenses than the Canon, allowing you to be able to use more vintage glass? Hrm...

Flicker Pictures
05-24-2011, 09:48 PM
I believe. Oh yes, I believe. Like in Santa Claus... and the Tooth Fairy... and Spongebob Squarepants. They do indeed exist. :D

NickClapper
05-24-2011, 09:59 PM
I was under the impression that there was/was going to be a 3D interchangeable lens for the GH2.

Does anyone know what is/has happened to that?

wheatgrinder
05-25-2011, 12:34 AM
The GH2 does have a 3d lens options, for 3d stills only, but it can be hacked to work for video, pretty low res though..

Flicker Pictures
05-25-2011, 10:06 AM
A few clips that Brian and I shot yesterday, nothing fancy. The full screen clips played back on the HD computer monitor were very impressive.

http://vimeo.com/24201529
Password: gh2cobwebs

http://vimeo.com/24200189
password: gh2test

No visible moire, artifacts or aliasing, but it does have the usual Jello effect. Although there is a work around with a setting that seems to fix it.

Might have more clips to post. Cheers.

Theodebernacius
05-25-2011, 10:44 AM
I've heard that the GH1/GH2 are more immune to aliasing because they do pixel binning instead of line skipping. Is that true?

One plus for the Canons is that they now have Technicolor Cinestyle, which IMO is a very exciting development for consumer DSLRs. Has Panasonic anything similar?

wheatgrinder
05-25-2011, 10:51 AM
A few clips that Brian and I shot yesterday, nothing fancy. The full screen clips played back on the HD computer monitor were very impressive.

http://vimeo.com/24201529
Password: gh2cobwebs

http://vimeo.com/24200189
password: gh2test

No visible moire, artifacts or aliasing, but it does have the usual Jello effect. Although there is a work around with a setting that seems to fix it.

Might have more clips to post. Cheers.


Why the down res to 720?

Flicker Pictures
05-25-2011, 11:03 AM
Why the down res to 720?

Smaller file size for uploading (darn that Vimeo 500GB weekly limit) and wanted to see how it looked. Will post full frame for the next few. :)

wheatgrinder
05-25-2011, 12:19 PM
ah, try a different h264 compression, my videos are under 20 \ 30 mb.

http://vimeo.com/22031702 is only 9mb's (download the mp4 if you want)

look into x264 (yes, not h264, but x264) its an open source implementation of h264 encoder that is better than the out of the box stuff. Lots of GUI options for MAC, only one good implementation for PC and thats handbrake.

David.rhsc
05-25-2011, 05:10 PM
So this is what I miss while working night shoots for the last ... um .. what day is it?

Damn. Time to play catchup! ;)

Utopia
05-25-2011, 05:24 PM
Hey wheat,

so answer me this because I've been away on a shoot for a while and I just got back and interested in my options of buying a camera,

GH2 vs. T3i or 60d. Which one would you buy after having both of them?

brianluce
05-25-2011, 05:30 PM
This clip illustrates why I don't like any of the Canons. Even the 5d is plagued by these issues.
http://vimeo.com/23448980

Utopia
05-25-2011, 05:52 PM
WOW never heard of that. Thanks!

Is there a Canon Intelligence Agency than forcibly removes any "test footage" videos from YT or Vimeo that has this fault to make these cameras seem ok? That's wild I've never seen that sort of thing on the web. Go figure. And I guess there is no work-around for it in post, eh?

Sorry for derailing the thread. When is this hack for the GH2 coming out? I'm curious.

CamVader
05-25-2011, 06:22 PM
WOW never heard of that. Thanks!

Is there a Canon Intelligence Agency than forcibly removes any "test footage" videos from YT or Vimeo that has this fault to make these cameras seem ok? That's wild I've never seen that sort of thing on the web. Go figure. And I guess there is no work-around for it in post, eh?

Sorry for derailing the thread. When is this hack for the GH2 coming out? I'm curious.

Just a quick note: you can make aliasing and moire worse on these Canon cameras knowing what the weak link is, but you can also minimize it. There are some notable people, including Philip Bloom, who own all of these cameras and still choose the 5D for many applications. Back to our regularly scheduled programming. ;)

brianluce
05-25-2011, 07:57 PM
WOW never heard of that. Thanks!
That's wild I've never seen that sort of thing on the web. Go figure. And I guess there is no work-around for it in post, eh?
.

I used to own the 7d, there is no workaround that I was ever able to find. What's maddening is that it's very difficult to see the moire and aliasing when you're shooting so you usually don't discover until after the talent has gone home. Very frustrating. The best thing, if you really want to use a Canon, is buy a pro monitor, at least that way you'll have a fighting chance of catching the aliasing or moire before you record it and then take steps to mitigate it.

CamVader
05-25-2011, 08:11 PM
At the risk of beating this to death, Brian, there is a substantial body of work using Canon DSLR's that is simply amazing. I don't believe that point can be argued.

wheatgrinder
05-25-2011, 09:46 PM
Cannons (note the three n's) have cred because they work and produce great images. The GH2 does not have this credibility. The GH2 may be a better camera technically, but that's not translating to usage. Id say it would catch up in the years to come, but I think the DSLR erra is about over, so cannon will reign as the "best" DSLR for video as the era draws to a close. Companies are getting it now, everybody and their mom's coming out with interchangeable lens camcorders, or something similar. So... the religious war will end in death and destruction and a new "reformed" community of film making tools will rise..


EDIT: Can I get an AMEN!

CamVader
05-25-2011, 10:07 PM
Cannons (note the three n's) have cred because they work and produce great images. The GH2 does not have this credibility. The GH2 may be a better camera technically, but that's not translating to usage. Id say it would catch up in the years to come, but I think the DSLR erra is about over, so cannon will reign as the "best" DSLR for video as the era draws to a close. Companies are getting it now, everybody and their mom's coming out with interchangeable lens camcorders, or something similar. So... the religious war will end in death and destruction and a new "reformed" community of film making tools will rise..


EDIT: Can I get an AMEN!

Haha! Well, actually yah. Damn! You are a Republican!

Bring on the camera war? I'll eek out of this and attempt to tell a story. Panasonic devils are invited despite their aggressiveness. :D It's all good, Wheat. ;)

brianluce
05-26-2011, 01:38 AM
At the risk of beating this to death, Brian, there is a substantial body of work using Canon DSLR's that is simply amazing. I don't believe that point can be argued.

I'm not trying to argue that point. But on technical terms, the Panasonic is better than all the Canons. Res charts don't lie. The DVX100 has produced far better content than the Canons or Panasonics, but I don't think anyone would argue the DVX is superior technically.

I'm only discussing these cameras on their testable merits, not what they can do in the right hands. In the right hands, an iPhone can create awesome content, and likewise, I've seen some embarrassingly bad stuff shot on Red ONE.

chilipie
05-26-2011, 02:13 AM
WOW never heard of that. Thanks!

Is there a Canon Intelligence Agency than forcibly removes any "test footage" videos from YT or Vimeo that has this fault to make these cameras seem ok? That's wild I've never seen that sort of thing on the web. Go figure. And I guess there is no work-around for it in post, eh?
There's loads of information out there about this if you know where to look - it's not even remotely secret.

I'm not trying to argue that point. But on technical terms, the Panasonic is better than all the Canons. Res charts don't lie. The DVX100 has produced far better content than the Canons or Panasonics, but I don't think anyone would argue the DVX is superior technically.
I completely agree, but even as someone greatly interested in the technology side of cinematography, nobody goes to the cinema to watch resolution charts. The Canons produce great pictures and (perhaps more importantly) are widely available. It's quite sad to see on other forums people pouring thousands of pounds into gear only to use it shooting test charts and colour grading tests - it's nice to come to IndieTalk where people actually make films :)

As a little aside, I saw a great music video on YouTube shot on a 550D/T2i a week a go - someone had posted underneath - "how does this look so good on a T2i? my 7D's much more expensive but doesn't always look like this".

CamVader
05-26-2011, 08:22 AM
I'm not trying to argue that point. But on technical terms, the Panasonic is better than all the Canons. Res charts don't lie. The DVX100 has produced far better content than the Canons or Panasonics, but I don't think anyone would argue the DVX is superior technically.

I'm only discussing these cameras on their testable merits, not what they can do in the right hands. In the right hands, an iPhone can create awesome content, and likewise, I've seen some embarrassingly bad stuff shot on Red ONE.

I understand. We're just talking about it. One thing Canon could have done is limit settings so it can't be pushed as easily into trouble in movie mode. Maybe I'm just more forgiving when remembering what was available 10 years ago for the average person.

calif0rnian
05-26-2011, 11:11 AM
This clip illustrates why I don't like any of the Canons. Even the 5d is plagued by these issues.
http://vimeo.com/23448980

Absolutely wow, this video really shows it. :( well with that being said, I still think my t2i was a good investment.
What we all need is a camera that acts like a dslr but doesn't have a CMOS nor a mirror - basically like a RED, but as cheap as DSLR.

SinEater
05-26-2011, 11:33 AM
Absolutely wow, this video really shows it. :( well with that being said, I still think my t2i was a good investment.
What we all need is a camera that acts like a dslr but doesn't have a CMOS nor a mirror - basically like a RED, but as cheap as DSLR.

RED cameras use CMOS chips. Also, m4/3 cameras like the Panasonic GH2 have no mirror.

Kholi
05-26-2011, 03:16 PM
RED cameras use CMOS chips. Also, m4/3 cameras like the Panasonic GH2 have no mirror.

And still behaves as a CMOS does, right down to the Epic. First hand experience.

Alexa is the only digital image acquisition system that begins to defeat the rolling shutter effect, and with great results.

As far as GH2 being superior, well, subjective. Even great resolution doesn't always win out. It's also fairly muddy in lowlight from my experiences, forcing you to shoot wide open which doesn't look pleasant.

To me, GH1, Hacked GH1, Gh2 all look better than Canon's on a large source, talking 60" Screens to 40ft screens. I've seen 'em all personally.

GH2 also cuts well with RED, we shot a portion of our feature on a GH2 + PL Mount and Cooke glass, looks a-okay to me.

The hack should make the camera a bit better if we can get a 4:2:2 color space out of it and gamma controls to remove a lot of contrast. Those are my only two personal gripes.

Really do want to see a 5D MKIII without moire issues... though. That would probably be the last camera I'd buy!

brianluce
05-26-2011, 03:22 PM
RED cameras use CMOS chips. Also, m4/3 cameras like the Panasonic GH2 have no mirror.

I hate coming as such a Canon basher/Panny Koolaider, but it's true, the m43's VF is electronic and exceptional -- very easy to determine focus, and maintain focus while recording. That was an issue for me with my 7d since the VF disabled in Video mode and the LCD was fixed. The GH2's LCD articulates but it's nothing to get hot and bothered about -- not especially sharp.

Okay so here are bad things about the GH2
-lousy ergonomics. tiny buttons all over the place that are easy to accidentally hit.
-It's smallish. If you do paid work, you have to pimp them out to create an illusion of value. Well you don't
"Have to" but I think it's good politics. Smallish size also makes it easy to drop.
-Underwhelming build quality, good enough perhaps but nothing like the robust 7d or 5d.
-HDMI out intentionally crippled. There's a clunky workaround with AVsynth, and it will improve image quality, but it's too many hoops to jump through. The Russian hacker will likely fix this.
-Confusing menus, seemingly infinite variations on menus depending on which mode you're in.
-No XLR in. As with all DSLR's.
-World's worst Owner's Manual.
-Extremely difficult to find. Scalpers get ahold of them and sell them at premiums on ebay.
-To the best of my knowledge, perhaps because of lack of supply, there is no GH2 Guru or reliable user knowledge base. For example to this day, no one can decide the ideal ISO's. Despite what was intimated in this thread, there hasn't really been much pixel peeping and res chart obsessing with the GH2. With the Canons there's a rich supply of information and guys like John Fairhurst with vast technical knowledge to give advice and tutoring. Things are pretty desperate when a rube like me has to start disseminating technical information on them. I guess there's the brilliant Russian hacker, but he is prickly and probably wasn't a nursery school teacher in another life.

brianluce
05-26-2011, 03:31 PM
And still behaves as a CMOS does, right down to the Epic. First hand experience.



Presumably the R1 and Epic have less Jellovision than the GH1/2/13?

I used to own an EX3, I thought it had less wobble than my GH or 7d. Hard to remember though. Just wondering how much of an issue it is with RED.

For me, the Jellovision is most problematic during handheld work, I have no issues doing slow tripod pan, I'm good with that, but handheld has be challenging, especially if I have to walk or run. Now, the ETC mode seems to virtually eliminate the jello, but you need a very wide lens, I use a 7mm and it's giving equivalent 30mm FOV (approx)

Kholi
05-26-2011, 03:33 PM
Thought it was said that the optimal ISO to shoot at at all times, day or night, was 400?

Did someone test that as wrong?

It's rarely ISO effecting an image in DSLRs from my experience, but overall exposure and equally important light temperature. Tungsten is going to make your image a bit more noisey than you want, but IMO it also creates the most pleasing color reproduction... and daylight fixtures make things look flat and pasty.

My DP Matty shot this on the GH1 pre-hack, where it was supposedly the worst image.
http://vimeo.com/13237339

Most of the light is tungsten based. The high res version is pretty amazing looking @ 40Feet.

Kholi
05-26-2011, 03:38 PM
Presumably the R1 and Epic have less Jellovision than the GH1/2/13?

I think it's about the same, from working with both extensively. The difference is that the GH-2 is lighter, so it appears to produce it much easier than the Red One MX


For me, the Jellovision is most problematic during handheld work, I have no issues doing slow tripod pan, I'm good with that, but handheld has be challenging, especially if I have to walk or run. Now, the ETC mode seems to virtually eliminate the jello, but you need a very wide lens, I use a 7mm and it's giving equivalent 30mm FOV (approx)

To me, the most important thing you can do with these DSLRs is add weight. It's sort of hard to realize, but when you think about camera movement in cinema from its existence, all of the cameras weigh several times more than DSLRs.

Depending on how you view things, if you're comparing it to traditional cinema then the crop factor's about 1.4, 1.5x

So a 7mm's like a 10mm on a RED.

brianluce
05-26-2011, 03:57 PM
Thought it was said that the optimal ISO to shoot at at all times, day or night, was 400?

Did someone test that as wrong?



I haven't found that test yet. It's good?
There were some early tests with lens cap on that suggested 160 -320 multiples, then some other guys said 200-400- 800 because the 160/320 created issues in the mid tones and shadows. Then one guys says 160 is the "Native ISO" and therefore ideal then someone else says "No such thing as native ISO". I've just read a lot of conflicting information, personally I've been trying to go with 400 or 800. It'd be great if someone came out with a user guide/dvd such as the ones Tim Dashwood has done.