View Full Version : Sony F3 and FS100 - any questions?


chilipie
05-11-2011, 02:58 PM
I'm off to a demo and training session for these two new Sony S35 cameras at ProVision Leeds on Friday afternoon - was just wondering if anyone had any questions/general areas of interest I could ask about for you? I'll try and do a little overall write up afterwards too, if I can find the time.

Kholi
05-11-2011, 03:02 PM
When I had the FS100, it would not output a 1080/24P signal or anything with flags for the pulldown.

Ask if they've fixed it. =]

don patterson
05-11-2011, 03:53 PM
Chilipie,

I am really leaning towards the Sony NEX-FS100UK Super 35mm Sensor Camcorder (with the 18-200mm Zoom Lens) due out in a few months. Price I hear is $5,599.00 at B & H. Please feel free to contact me with any and all info. Like, are they giving out any discount coupons or rebates on this camera or specials on additional lens? Will these cameras work with my (really old) Pentax Super ME bayonet K lenses (LOL -- been a long time since I shot with a 35mm SLR)? They are good 35mm lens, just old. Are their adapters? Could I use my current Sony DSR300 and/or DSR 500 Canon lenses? Feel free to pick up any info and pass it on. This camera is currently on top of my list for fall purchase, if you can send me the Sony rep contact that would help as well. I have many, many questions.

Can not wait to read your review (I have several Indietalk forum inquiries on this camera, below).

Thank you.

brianluce
05-11-2011, 06:37 PM
Chilipie,

I am really leaning towards the Sony NEX-FS100UK Super 35mm Sensor Camcorder (with the 18-200mm Zoom Lens) due out in a few months. Price I hear is $5,599.00 at B & H. Please feel free to contact me with any and all info. Like, are they giving out any discount coupons or rebates on this camera or specials on additional lens? Will these cameras work with my (really old) Pentax Super ME bayonet K lenses (LOL -- been a long time since I shot with a 35mm SLR)? They are good 35mm lens, just old. Are their adapters? Could I use my current Sony DSR300 and/or DSR 500 Canon lenses? Feel free to pick up any info and pass it on. This camera is currently on top of my list for fall purchase, if you can send me the Sony rep contact that would help as well. I have many, many questions.

Can not wait to read your review (I have several Indietalk forum inquiries on this camera, below).

Thank you.
I don't think your DVCAm lenses will work because they won't cover the huge 35mm sensor. Your dvcam is what, 1/2" sensor?
$5599 seems like a great deal. Seem to be a killer setup.

CamVader
05-11-2011, 07:25 PM
I don't think your DVCAm lenses will work because they won't cover the huge 35mm sensor. Your dvcam is what, 1/2" sensor?
$5599 seems like a great deal. Seem to be a killer setup.

The super 35 sensor isn't that huge. It has a crop factor about the same as a 7D or a T2i 550D.

chilipie
05-11-2011, 07:29 PM
The super 35 sensor isn't that huge. It has a crop factor about the same as a 7D or a T2i 550D.

Not compared to FF 35mm… compared to a 1/2" sensor, it's gargantuan.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Sensor_sizes_overlaid_inside.svg/550px-Sensor_sizes_overlaid_inside.svg.png

Cheers for the questions chaps - I'll write them up tomorrow evening to take with me.

CamVader
05-11-2011, 07:40 PM
Not compared to FF 35mm… compared to a 1/2" sensor, it's gargantuan.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f0/Sensor_sizes_overlaid_inside.svg/550px-Sensor_sizes_overlaid_inside.svg.png

Cheers for the questions chaps - I'll write them up tomorrow evening to take with me.

Full frame as in the 5D? The F3 and FS100 sensor is 50% smaller (http://blog.abelcine.com/2010/08/18/35mm-digital-sensor-comparison-chart/) than that and very similar to the 7D. Also, the 1/2 inch sensors are X3 which increases the surface area- but to make a long story short, a DV lens would probably give sub-par results in any case. Not bad if it's for free, though. ;)

chilipie
05-11-2011, 07:48 PM
Full frame as in the 5D? The F3 and FS100 sensor is 50% smaller (http://blog.abelcine.com/2010/08/18/35mm-digital-sensor-comparison-chart/) than that and very similar to the 7D. Also, the 1/2 inch sensors are X3 which increases the surface area- but to make a long story short, a DV lens would probably give sub-par results in any case. Not bad if it's for free, though. ;)

Yup. That's what I'm saying - a Super35 sensor isn't big compared to the 5D's, but it's huge compared to a 1/2" one. Having three CCDs doesn't increase the surface area that the lens needs to project on - it's just an alternative to the bayer pattern found on most CMOS sensors. I think what Brian was getting at was that a lens for a 1/2" camera simply wouldn't project a large enough image circle for a S35 one, and even if it were physically possible to mount it you'd end up with the kind of vignetting you see with EF-S lenses on the 5D.

CamVader
05-11-2011, 08:19 PM
Yup. That's what I'm saying - a Super35 sensor isn't big compared to the 5D's, but it's huge compared to a 1/2" one. Having three CCDs doesn't increase the surface area that the lens needs to project on - it's just an alternative to the bayer pattern found on most CMOS sensors. I think what Brian was getting at was that a lens for a 1/2" camera simply wouldn't project a large enough image circle for a S35 one, and even if it were physically possible to mount it you'd end up with the kind of vignetting you see with EF-S lenses on the 5D.

No argument here (sorry if I made it appear that way). It would be a goofy set up with extenders and mount adapters, all for a lens that doesn't have the tolerances for HD.

chilipie
05-12-2011, 05:29 AM
No argument here (sorry if I made it appear that way). It would be a goofy set up with extenders and mount adapters, all for a lens that doesn't have the tolerances for HD.

No worries, just some wires getting crossed! :)

brianluce
05-19-2011, 02:59 PM
The super 35 sensor isn't that huge. It has a crop factor about the same as a 7D or a T2i 550D.

But wait, it the new Sony has a 35mm sensor, there should be *no* crop factor right? Isn't 35mm the reference point?

Also, to the OP, any news?

CamVader
05-19-2011, 03:12 PM
Check out the chart (http://blog.abelcine.com/2010/08/18/35mm-digital-sensor-comparison-chart/).

It's about the same size as super 35 film and 5% larger than APS-C.

chilipie
05-19-2011, 03:18 PM
But wait, it the new Sony has a 35mm sensor, there should be *no* crop factor right? Isn't 35mm the reference point?

Also, to the OP, any news?

The reference point is usually full-frame 35mm stills, rather than Super35 (the latter of which is the same size as the Sony's sensor).

Sorry about my tardiness… had a very busy week, just got in from a job about five minutes ago. Will dig out my notes and answer questions in the morning :)

CamVader
05-19-2011, 03:28 PM
Hey, great news on the job! Share the details if you can.

chilipie
05-21-2011, 06:07 AM
Right then, here goes…

Hey, great news on the job! Share the details if you can.

Cheers! Was an internal corporate for a hostel for homeless people, to help new residents settle in and learn the rules. Suspect it won't ever be online due to protecting the people featured in it, but was a really fun shoot.

I am really leaning towards the Sony NEX-FS100UK Super 35mm Sensor Camcorder (with the 18-200mm Zoom Lens) due out in a few months. Price I hear is $5,599.00 at B & H. Please feel free to contact me with any and all info. Like, are they giving out any discount coupons or rebates on this camera or specials on additional lens?

The rep was in broadcast engineering rather than marketing, which cut the bullshit but did mean he wasn't that hot on pricing info - B&H may well be offering discounts and rebates themselves, but given the relatively high demand and low availability on release, it seems fairly unlikely that Sony will feel the need to offer any incentives.

Will these cameras work with my (really old) Pentax Super ME bayonet K lenses (LOL -- been a long time since I shot with a 35mm SLR)? They are good 35mm lens, just old. Are their adapters? Could I use my current Sony DSR300 and/or DSR 500 Canon lenses?

There are only three E-mount lenses available at the moment (the 18-200 f/3.5-6.3 that you mentioned, a 16mm f/2.8 and an 18-55 f/3.5-5.6) but apparently Sony are also planning on releasing a 24mm f/2, a 40mm f/2, a 30mm f/3.5 macro, and a 55-210 (stop unknown). It can also take Sony's A-mount lenses (used on their DSLRs) with an adaptor, which opens up your choice of OEM glass considerably.

Perhaps more usefully, Canon FD and Nikon glass can be mounted with the appropriate adaptor. K-mount to E-mount adapters are fairly cheap and readily available, so you could use your old SLR lenses. As Brian pointed out earlier, using lenses designed for a 1/2" sensor with a Super35 one isn't a very practical solution unless you can put up with large amounts of vignetting and poor IQ.

When I had the FS100, it would not output a 1080/24P signal or anything with flags for the pulldown.

Ask if they've fixed it. =]

Couldn't get an answer for this I'm afraid!

Overall I had quite mixed feelings about both cameras, particularly with regards to the ergonomics. I'd had a play with both of them at BVE a few months ago, but wasn't able to pick them up and judge the handling very well. When kitted out with a rig - shoulder support, handles and monitor/EVF - they'll both be absolutely fine, but in their out of the box form I'm not so sure. The F3 is simply far too heavy to handhold in the way you could do with an EX1 that's about the same size, and the ponytail EVF and low flip-out monitor basically mean you need to buy an EVF if you want to use it handheld with any ease. The combo monitor/viewfinder on the FS100 is fantastic if you want to use it on a tripod, but try and shoot with it handheld and you'll end up with tired arms, shaky footage or both.

I'd happily hire either camera with the appropriate accessories, but as a long-term investment it seems like you'll have to spend practically the same again to be able to do what you want to with them. I think the F3 has a bright future at its price point, but I wonder if Sony may have missed the mark a little with the FS100 - too expensive for many indies, too cheap for pros.

CamVader
05-21-2011, 07:35 AM
B&H has the body only for $5K and more EF to E mount adapters should be hitting the market shortly. I might actually be able to do this in time.

...but then there will be some new evil camera temptation that I must have. It never ends.:cool:

brianluce
05-21-2011, 01:48 PM
How's the image quality? Does it use the same 30mbs codec that the EX's use? Are those Sony lenses equipped with AF and iS? if so, does the AF work well? I didn't like the AF on my EX3.
Btw, if the ergo's are worse than a EX1, that's telling because EX1 was a bit awkward, even the EX3 is nothing to write home about.
Thanks for the info.