I am shooting a film on a shoestring budget and would like to know what's the cheapest mic and digital sound recorder I could get, but that still has good enough quality to qualify for the movie to be sent to the film festivals, and not be judged for poor sound.
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Need some advice on which mic to use.
- Thread starter harmonica44
- Start date
The people recording, editing and mixing the sound are far more important than the equipment itself. An experienced professional could record much better material with £500 of equipment than the inexperienced PA chosen to hold the boom pole connected to £5000 of gear.
True, but I'm sure that no matter how cheap you go, there will always be equipment so bad, that no on can save it. I saw a mic for as low as $40. Are you saying that even that will do good, as long as it's done right?
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Only if that $40 mic is appropriate for the situation. The Shure SM58 is a great mic for $100, but will not sufficiently pick up dialog more than four inches away; it's a dynamic mic meant for high db situations like a loud rock band.
You want to go really cheap? Get the Rode VideoMic, the Tascam DR-03 and build a DIY boom-pole.
The cheaper you go the more skill, care and preparation you will need to overcome the limitations of the cheap gear; skills and experience you do not have. Cheap gear will also have very high self noise floors that will require correction/reduction in audio post even before you correct for the noise picked up on the set. So you will have to spend more money on the right tools (or someone like me) to compensate for your use of cheap production sound gear once you're in audio post.
You want to go really cheap? Get the Rode VideoMic, the Tascam DR-03 and build a DIY boom-pole.
The cheaper you go the more skill, care and preparation you will need to overcome the limitations of the cheap gear; skills and experience you do not have. Cheap gear will also have very high self noise floors that will require correction/reduction in audio post even before you correct for the noise picked up on the set. So you will have to spend more money on the right tools (or someone like me) to compensate for your use of cheap production sound gear once you're in audio post.
You might consider renting. You can rent high end equipment for the cost of buying low end.
The cost of renting though all adds up to more in the end though. I would have to constantly rent for every scene and that can all add up to more than just buying one. I will look more into rental prices and time though. The thing is I am filming a suspense chase sequence where I will need a lot of room for the characters to run around. So what's a good cheap mic for capturing sound from far away?
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No such thing as a good cheap mic for capturing sound from far away.
Capturing sounds from far away is typically done with a cardioid mounted in a parabolic reflector, but that's not how film sound is done. I suspect that as well as distance shots you will be shooting close in for cutaways. That is where you're going to record your sound from, using a shotgun, on a boom, in a blimp with a quality shock-mount and windjammer (since the sound person will be runnning as well). The other option would be to attach wireless lavs to the actor(s) but if they'll be running, it will take a lot of placement experiments and good technique to minimize clothing noise.
Even a $40 mic won't do the job alone.
Of course, all of this depends on whether you want your film to sound like a home movie or not.
Spend some time in the sound forum of this and other filmmaking sites.
Capturing sounds from far away is typically done with a cardioid mounted in a parabolic reflector, but that's not how film sound is done. I suspect that as well as distance shots you will be shooting close in for cutaways. That is where you're going to record your sound from, using a shotgun, on a boom, in a blimp with a quality shock-mount and windjammer (since the sound person will be runnning as well). The other option would be to attach wireless lavs to the actor(s) but if they'll be running, it will take a lot of placement experiments and good technique to minimize clothing noise.
Even a $40 mic won't do the job alone.
Of course, all of this depends on whether you want your film to sound like a home movie or not.
Spend some time in the sound forum of this and other filmmaking sites.
It seems that shotgun mics are much better because they have a further distance. But then why use boom mics at all? Why not use shotgun mics the for the whole film, especially when they are easier to hold and you can stand further away? I wanna go mic shopping soon but I don't wanna buy the wrong equipment or the wrong sound software programs. I wanna not have to learn the hard way and waist money, but that seems hard since you don't know what you got till after you have already bought your equipment.
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The idea that shotgun mics have a further "reach" is incorrect. Shotgun microphone provide better rejection of off-axis sound but have no more "reach" than any other microphone. They are also not the most appropriate microphone for use indoors in reflective spaces.
The microphone needs to be within 12"-18" inches of the talent for clean dialog.
The microphone needs to be within 12"-18" inches of the talent for clean dialog.
I would rent a sound recordist. In the UK at least, there are plenty of young sound recordists who are willing to work for free or very low pay. The way they cover their costs is to 'rent' the equipment to you, but usually at a much lower price than rental houses. Add to that their technical expertise and you've got what I would call a 'pretty good deal'.
Thanks I'll look into that. I live in Canada, but perhaps I can find a sound recordist the same way. How do you find one in the UK?
Websites.
I think Mandy.com might operate in Canada but, if not, it might be worth sticking an add on Craigslist and seeing who's interested. Also you can look for specific audio engineering schools in the area and see if they have any graduates or students who would be interested in gaining some experience on your film...
I think Mandy.com might operate in Canada but, if not, it might be worth sticking an add on Craigslist and seeing who's interested. Also you can look for specific audio engineering schools in the area and see if they have any graduates or students who would be interested in gaining some experience on your film...
I did already look but there are no schools where I live. I'll look on craiglist and kijiji. If I end up buying a mic myself though, I have the photoshop CS5 program which is made to clear up and edit audio. If I get a mic that ends up recording the sound not as well, and I need a program to clear it up, will that program be good, or do I need a certain mic?
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I would reiterate what chilipie has already said. Sound recording is a skill, just like cinematography. Simply having the equipment will not ensure good sound. You will be much better off trying to draft someone in who knows how to operate the equipment, especially if you are only going to use a shotgun mic.
You can sort out a lot of the audio in post, no doubt about that, but that's only if you have something decent to start with. I just shot a scene outdoors where there was a nearby building crew stopping and starting. My inexperienced soundman (and my own poor decision making) meant that we didn't record an atmospheric track so that we could even out the atmospheric levels. The result? Not good enough sound.
So my basic advice is to try to find someone who can use the equipment. Resist the temptation to buy yourself because, unless you want to be in sound, there's not going to be much that you can do with that gear and most of the people you'll be getting in to help will already own it.
You can sort out a lot of the audio in post, no doubt about that, but that's only if you have something decent to start with. I just shot a scene outdoors where there was a nearby building crew stopping and starting. My inexperienced soundman (and my own poor decision making) meant that we didn't record an atmospheric track so that we could even out the atmospheric levels. The result? Not good enough sound.
So my basic advice is to try to find someone who can use the equipment. Resist the temptation to buy yourself because, unless you want to be in sound, there's not going to be much that you can do with that gear and most of the people you'll be getting in to help will already own it.
Alright thanks I'll look into that. I thought I could save money by getting a mic, playing around with it and learning how to capture clear sound for myself. Then I could hire a soundman to work in post. But I guess that's not a good idea.
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Audio, like the rest of filmmaking, is a unified whole from beginning to end. Despite the fact that hours are spent on the cinematography unless you are making a silent film the bulk of the story telling process takes place with the dialog. But even Oscar winning rerecording mixers using the best noise reduction plug-ins cannot save truly bad production sound, and you will not have near the tools or experience to fix even moderately bad production sound. If the production sound is really bad you have to resort to ADR, but most directors and rerecording mixers prefer to avoid ADR if at all possible; only the most extraordinary actors can match the performance/passion of the on-set performance with perfect lip sync. The rest of the time you settle for what you can get which detracts from the final product.
So think about sound during preproduction, take great care to capture solid production sound, then expend the time and effort during audio post.
Now, if you just want to learn and are not concerned about getting into festivals or obtaining distribution you can get a "cheap" set-up like the Rode VideoMic Pro and the Zoom H2, and make a DIY boom-pole. That would be around $400. The VMP will be relatively forgiving compared to "pro" mics and will sound much better indoors.
BTW, you may want to check out local music recording engineers; someone may want to venture into the world of production sound and/or audio post - and they should have a few decent mics already! That's how I got my start in film work; I migrated from music engineering to audio post and did some production sound work during the transition.
So think about sound during preproduction, take great care to capture solid production sound, then expend the time and effort during audio post.
Now, if you just want to learn and are not concerned about getting into festivals or obtaining distribution you can get a "cheap" set-up like the Rode VideoMic Pro and the Zoom H2, and make a DIY boom-pole. That would be around $400. The VMP will be relatively forgiving compared to "pro" mics and will sound much better indoors.
BTW, you may want to check out local music recording engineers; someone may want to venture into the world of production sound and/or audio post - and they should have a few decent mics already! That's how I got my start in film work; I migrated from music engineering to audio post and did some production sound work during the transition.
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K thanks. My director of photography may know someone since he works with crews and all so I'm waiting for him get back to me. He did tell me though that the sound can be easily recorded by anyone, with a few tests prior to filming and that I will only need most of the help in post. Is that true? Then again he never made anything that was meant to be festival worthy with his crews. What about the computer program photoshop CS5? Is that good for improving sound recordings?
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I think they already answered that for you. No not anyone can record good sound after a few test shots. Can anyone shoot a scene after a few test shots with no experience? I'd honestly take all the advice and hire someone, otherwise it will sound b grade.
Owen
I think it's slightly typical of people behind the camera, especially inexperienced ones, to think that anyone can deal with the sound...
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Alright well I'll wait for him to get back to me on who he knows, thanks. I will still likely have to get the equipment though, so aside from a cheaper Zoom recorder, what are some good mics? One person at the store told me that I am looking for a shotgun mic for shooting the chase I am. He says that using one in doors really doesn't matter unless the audience has ears like an eagle, but is that true?
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