Hi everyone,
Been a long time since I posted here (although I've occasionally popped in to read). I have a question about production companies when two or more are working together on a film.

Basically, I formed my own company and was recently asked to produce and direct a project for someone else. This person has the financing, so I guess she's the exec. producer. I would be doing all the nuts and bolts producing, with her money (and yes, I'd be paid). She wants to use her company's name, and keep the rights to the film, and I would be work-for-hire. No problem for me there. But I would like my prodco's name associated with it, too. So, would I draw up a contract between her co. and mine, and would that mean I'm a "loan-out company?" And is that the case where you see two prodco names in the beginning of film credits? Something like This Company in association with That Company Presents... ?

I mostly want to get clear on what kind of agreement I need.

Thanks in advance for your help on this.

Yeah definitely get something in writing. Also lay out who is supposed to do what. The job description of "producer" could everything from A to Z or nothing in between. And what are the remedies if someone doesn't do their job?

Definitely draft an agreement that includes your personal credit as well as your company's credit in the film.

"In Association with" is fairly common.

-Martin

Thanks, but I was hoping for more specific info. Of course, I won't proceed without a contract, and I know we must delineate who's doing what. That's a given.

I have experience drafting contracts, but only when my prodco was in charge. I've never drafted a contract for a situation where I am working for another prodco.

FWIW, this is a low-budget feature. Basically, she is providing the story and the money. As producer, I am putting together the crew, all elements like paperwork and equipment, and overseeing all the logistics. I will also spend time on my duties as director, such as developing the script, which needs a little help, casting, etc.

Maybe I should ask more specific questions.

Do I need a separate agreement as director, and another as producer? I've read about loan-out companies as director, but would I also be a loan-out as producer? How do I word the section about credits as a second prodco?

I'll add more specific questions as I think of them. Thanks.

Anyone? Trying to figure out what agreements I need as both producer and director, for somoene else who is the exec producer hiring me. One agreement or two?

Thanks, everyone.

How about you get a company contract as the movie's 'line producer' - below the line = you may or maynot be afforded a 'screen credit' = if no credit seek More cash...

With a totally different contract as a Diector = above the line and obvious bonafide "credit".

As for whether as a 'loan out' or not, I'd go with whatever way is most tax efficient to you.

(cough) but I ain't no attorney, so check with a lawyer and accountant first ;-)

All the best, Jim.

How about you get a company contract as the movie's 'line producer' - below the line = you may or maynot be afforded a 'screen credit' = if no credit seek More cash...


Why line producer? I'll be the main producer, and will have a line producer working under me.

To be frank, I kinda feel like this is much ado about nothing. Wouldn't a normal face-to-face conversation be enough to sort this out? She is providing the money, so she is producer. You are doing the organizing and legwork of a producer, so you are producer. She is doing more than just providing the money, however -- she brought the story, so I think she is more than just "executive".

Produced by __________ and ___________.

And if you can't get her to agree that both of your production companies are given official credit, and if you don't feel comfortable that she will keep her word with that agreement, then why the heck would you work with her?

Sorry I misunderstood:

"I would be doing all the nuts and bolts producing, with her monou would ey (and yes, I'd be paid)."

As that of a line producer - I never realised that you were going to employ someone to do said tasks in addition.

All the best, Jim.

I agree with Cracker. There isn’t a special, specific agreement
for this kind of partnership. You will use a standard agreement.

You will not be a “loan-out” company, you will be a partner. Since
you want your prodCo’s name associated with the project you should
ask her how this can be worked out. If she is agreeable to your
“in association with” credit that’s what will happen. If she isn’t
then you two can work out an alternative. Perhaps your company
name at the end.

You will use a separate agreement as director.

This is something that happens all the time. I do it often. The
very best method to coming to an agreement is to sit down with the
other produce, tell her what you want out of the project, listen
to what she wants out of the project and draw up an agreement
based on that discussion.

Okay, I see I left out an important element to my question. This person who wants me to produce and direct her film is not a filmmaker. She is a businessperson, but not in the film business at all. I am taking on the role of producer to put together the team and get the ball rolling. And I'm directing. I am new at this myself, so would like to know how to explain what I want so she understands. I really don't think she'd want me to be a partner.

For example, when I told her as producer I want a salary and percentage (of what little there may be), she said, "Oh, but I want to keep the rights, and you'd be a work for hire." She didn't understand why I wanted a percentage until I told her my job wouldn't end on the last day of editing, that I would see it through to get it out there in the world - she wouldn't know how to do that and the film would sit there. So, then she understood.

So, I want to be clear on how it works myself so I can make it clear to her. Also - I want to explain why she should have a separate business entity for the film itself (like its own LLC), rather than use the LLC she has for other things she does (her "prodco"). How would I explain that? And would we both be officers of that biz or just her, I wonder? No, I guess she would be the head of it and I would work for her newly formed LLC.

These are all things I have some knowledge of, or limited experience, but I'm no expert so I'm trying to sort it all out in my head before I talk to her. I know I can tackle this project but I don't want to confuse her and I want her to have faith in me. I just want to know what I'm talking about! Hehehe.

Directorik, a standard agreement... what kind of standard agreement are you referring to?

"and you'd be a work for hire."

Which is what I took from your initial post - hence my: Line Producer = "below the line" - Paid but NO credit.

As opposed to your obvious "above the line" Director credit.

Sounds like you´ve either got to get as much for your time without a Producer credit - OR negoiate less ´upfront´cash so that your involvement is more of a backer and thereby a ´Producer´.

Untimately, you can always walk...

All the best with whatever you decide, Jim.

She wants to hire you. As Jamster said, that means you will be her
employee - a work for hire. She wants to keep the rights. By that
I assume she means she (her company) will be the copyright holder
of the finished film.

You want not only to be paid as producer/director but you want a
percentage of the profits and your companies name on the movie.

Do I have that right?

If I am, I believe you are confusing the situation by wanting to
help her form a new company. Don’t. Allow her to hire you as
producer/director. In the contract agreement state that you want
credit as Producer and Director and that you want an “in
association with” credit for your company. Specify the salary and
the percentage you want.

Do not confuse her by suggesting she form a separate LLC for the
project or that you and she could be partners in that company.
Just accept a work for hire agreement with the stipulations you
require. Allow her to run her side of the business as she sees
fit.

She wants to hire you. As Jamster said, that means you will be her
employee - a work for hire. She wants to keep the rights. By that
I assume she means she (her company) will be the copyright holder
of the finished film.

You want not only to be paid as producer/director but you want a
percentage of the profits and your companies name on the movie.

Do I have that right?

If I am, I believe you are confusing the situation by wanting to
help her form a new company. Don’t. Allow her to hire you as
producer/director. In the contract agreement state that you want
credit as Producer and Director and that you want an “in
association with” credit for your company. Specify the salary and
the percentage you want.

Do not confuse her by suggesting she form a separate LLC for the
project or that you and she could be partners in that company.
Just accept a work for hire agreement with the stipulations you
require. Allow her to run her side of the business as she sees
fit.

Yes, Directorik, you have it right.

Thank you, you always make things so clear for me. I didn't realize that the “in association with” could simply be a credit that I ask for. I thought there would have to be some kind of business entanglement for that.

So, I understand it much better now - I still want separate agreements each for producing and directing, right?

Thanks again...

"I still want separate agreements each for producing and directing, right?" - 100%

All the very best, Jim.

So, I understand it much better now - I still want separate agreements each for producing and directing, right?
Not necessarily. The contract can be for producer/director.

Oh. So I guess i can consolidate the two into one. Hmmm... been looking for sample agreements, can't seem to find one that combines those two roles.

[I]hence my: Line Producer = "below the line" - Paid but NO credit.


Below the line does not mean "no credit"....

Oh. So I guess i can consolidate the two into one. Hmmm... been looking for sample agreements, can't seem to find one that combines those two roles.
Yes you can. I have taken a standard director agreement and changed
director to producer/director. However, if you don't want to do that, you can
have two separate agreements.

Jamster, I hadn't noticed your comment about the Line Producer being a
below the line position. Here in the states it's considered an above the line
position. And here in the states the Line Producer credit is always a credited
position. When you say, "below the line = you may or maynot be afforded a
'screen credit' " is that fairly common in the UK. Do below the line people
occasionally not get screen credit? Is screen credit for below the line people
a negotiated item?

Good source for a blank Director's Agreement to use?

Sorry guys, I thought that ´Line Producers´ not being involved in either a) finacing or b) creative input of the movie are regarded as ´below the line´and not afforded said ´Producer´ credit.

Thanks for the info, Jim.


Since edited:

The credit of Co-Producer / Line Producer is to be granted to the individual who reports directly to the individual(s) receiving "Produced By" credit on the theatrical motion picture.

The Co-Producer / Line Producer is the single individual who has the primary responsibility for the logistics of the production, from pre-production through completion of production; all Department Heads report to the Co-Producer / Line Producer. copyright PGA

What portion of my fees could I ask to receive up front before pre-production begins? I don't know what the usual procedure is.

Is it different for the director than it is for the producer? I read somewhere that usually the director gets paid in full whether or not the production gets completed. But what about the producer? Not saying I expect to crap out on this project, but I just want to know what kind of clauses to include oin our agreements.

And how much of the budget should I ask to be available to me right away and then later on? I have seen reference (elsewhere on the 'net) to a "release of funds schedule" that is also put into agreements. Is that what most low-budget indie productions do? I've obnly had to handle my own money, not someone else's -- so I want to know how best to ask for it.

Any info on this would be extremely helpful. I need to get this together quickly so I would appreciate a prompt response from anyone who can offer some insight - thanks!

I think you can negotiate it however you want.

I generally do half up front, half upon completion for all my freelance work. This changes if they have a lot of stuff to purchase, then it's half+all expenses up front. It also changes the other way for steady client. I have one client I've worked for for years. I just invoice her 100% after completion because she's always been good for it. I don't do this with new clients though, have been burned in the past.

What portion of my fees could I ask to receive up front before pre-production begins? I don't know what the usual procedure is.
As both the producer and director you should be paid (through a
payroll company) on a weekly basis. Based on what you have
suggested in this thread, this is not a free lance assignment but
a work for hire.

For example:

It’s a 20 week schedule - 4 preproduction, 6 production, 10 post
production. As producer you will draw a salary for 20 weeks. As
director 14 weeks. In this case the director might even be
slightly less to save the prodCo money - an incentive for hiring
you as director - say, only for the 6 weeks of production.

I read somewhere that usually the director gets paid in full whether or not the production gets completed. But what about the producer? Not saying I expect to crap out on this project, but I just want to know what kind of clauses to include oin our agreements.

If you have a “pay or play” arrangement for the director, then the
deal is the director will be paid in full if the production is
canceled for any reason. That’s highly unusual for a low budget
project and for a director without a significant track record and
“name”.

And how much of the budget should I ask to be available to me right away and then later on? I have seen reference (elsewhere on the 'net) to a "release of funds schedule" that is also put into agreements. Is that what most low-budget indie productions do? I've obnly had to handle my own money, not someone else's -- so I want to know how best to ask for it.

As producer you will have a complete, line item budget and all the
funds should be available to you at all times. Unlike a freelance
assignment where (as Paul mentions) you split in half (or even
thirds) the fee. You should be able to write checks as needed or
ask that checks be written as needed to cover day to day and week
to week expenses. In other words, you will not be given any of the
budget at all as the producer, but the money will be available to
you - all of it.

Of course if the exec Producer is going to be “hands-off” (handing
you the money and expecting a finished product in 20 weeks) then
you will need to break up the release of funds. Typically that’s
all the money you need for the 4 weeks of preProd one week before
you officially start,all the money you need for the 6 weeks of
production one week before you start production and money you need
for the 10 weeks of postProd one week before you officially start
post.

This is a LOT to have to deal with so quickly. Must be frustrating.

Thanks, guys. Directorik, I have some more questions and don't quite understand some of your post:
As both the producer and director you should be paid (through a payroll company) on a weekly basis. Based on what you have suggested in this thread, this is not a free lance assignment but a work for hire.
Yes, I am a work-for-hire. Now, am I supposed to find the payroll company for this project (since I'm producing it) or should the person with the money do that?

It’s a 20 week schedule - 4 preproduction, 6 production, 10 post
production. As producer you will draw a salary for 20 weeks. As director 14 weeks.
I understand where you said that I could take less weeks' pay as a Director for an incentive, but we're not doing that. I asked for a lower percentage of the budget as salary, since this is my first time on a feature. However, I do see that I will be engaged in my director duties throughout the whole pre-pro, pro, and post. Wouldn't fixing the script and casting, etc., be part of directing, and therefore wouldn't I draw salaries for both duties for the whole time? (Just wondering where that 14 weeks you mentioned comes from)

If you have a “pay or play” arrangement for the director, then the deal is the director will be paid in full if the production is canceled for any reason. That’s highly unusual for a low budget project and for a director without a significant track record and “name”.I'm going to put that clause in there and see what she says. I think she's so happy about this project getting made that she won't mind.

As producer you will have a complete, line item budget and all the funds should be available to you at all times. Unlike a freelance assignment where (as Paul mentions) you split in half (or even thirds) the fee. You should be able to write checks as needed or ask that checks be written as needed to cover day to day and week to week expenses. In other words, you will not be given any of the budget at all as the producer, but the money will be available to you - all of it.

Of course if the exec Producer is going to be “hands-off” (handing you the money and expecting a finished product in 20 weeks) then you will need to break up the release of funds. Typically that’s
all the money you need for the 4 weeks of preProd one week before you officially start,all the money you need for the 6 weeks of production one week before you start production and money you need for the 10 weeks of postProd one week before you officially start post.

Now, here, it seems that what you've said contradicts itself, unless I'm just not following (which is probably the case). So, I should have access to the whole budget and be able to write checks but yet "not given any of the budget at all?" And then, even though I should draw a salary each week, I still ave to oversee a release of funds for other things/expenses, etc.?

This is a LOT to have to deal with so quickly. Must be frustrating.
Oh, yes, indeed! But exciting, too!

Thanks, guys. Directorik, I have some more questions and don't quite understand some of your post:

Yes, I am a work-for-hire. Now, am I supposed to find the payroll company for this project (since I'm producing it) or should the person with the money do that?
It is MUCH better to have a payroll company handle that aspect. If
not, you (being both the producer and director) will have to
calculate hours worked, any meal penalties, overtime, deductions,
taxes... what a nightmare. You aren't just paying yourself, I
assume, but actors, crew, vendors...

I don't know how the company is being set up. If the "person with
the money" is just writing checks from a business account, then
that's up to them and out of your hands. As the producer, you
should find a payroll company. Without know the specifics, I have
no way to answer.


I understand where you said that I could take less weeks' pay as a Director for an incentive, but we're not doing that. I asked for a lower percentage of the budget as salary, since this is my first time on a feature. However, I do see that I will be engaged in my director duties throughout the whole pre-pro, pro, and post. Wouldn't fixing the script and casting, etc., be part of directing, and therefore wouldn't I draw salaries for both duties for the whole time? (Just wondering where that 14 weeks you mentioned comes from)
You can set up the employment time anyway you see fit. If you are
taking a separate salary as producer and director for the entire
time, that's up to you - and the person with the money. It's quite
typical for a director to come in a couple of weeks after
preproduction starts and be paid only a few weeks into post. You,
as the producer, can change that to any time period you want.

I'm going to put that clause in there and see what she says. I think she's so happy about this project getting made that she won't mind.
Fine. And good for you. It's highly unusual.



Now, here, it seems that what you've said contradicts itself, unless I'm just not following (which is probably the case). So, I should have access to the whole budget and be able to write checks but yet "not given any of the budget at all?" And then, even though I should draw a salary each week, I still ave to oversee a release of funds for other things/expenses, etc.?
Not a contradiction. I do not know your specific project or how
it's being handled. You have several options - I was offering two
- each different. I don't know who will be controlling the money.
I don't know who will oversee the release of funds. Only you and
the person with the money can make that agreement.

Quite frankly, there isn't a "should". Each production is
different and I don't understand much about yours. I'm doing my
best to give you a very simplified, crash course in something that
is very, very complicated and can be a legal nightmare if even
slightly mishandled. I don't even know if I'm giving you advice on
a feature or a short, on a $5,000 project or a $500,000 one. I
can't get too specific because I don't have all the information I
need to really help. I'm becoming worried that I might be even
steering you in the wrong direction altogether.

For all I know this could be a three day, short film with a budget
of $2,000 or a 12 day feature with a budget of $12,000 staffed
by a few friends working for a grand total of $500 each.

For all I know this could be a three day, short film with a budget
of $2,000 or a 12 day feature with a budget of $12,000 staffed
by a few friends working for a grand total of $500 each.

I will PM you.