Hello guys,

I’ve used the search button but it seems like I still cant answer my questions. I plan on getting t2i ( 550D ) or a D5000 DSLRs to shoot my movies. I have been using Sony Vegas Pro for a while now however I have always had rendering issues and my videos ( no matter how good they look in Vegas during editing ) always come out twitchy and quality degraded after rendering. I tried different setting and still the same problem.

The quality always degrades after I convert to another format so that Vegas can read both sound and video. I finally decided to get a camera which has a format that I will NOT need to convert as I don’t want my footage quality degraded ( perhaps I was not using good enough converter, and I’ve tried a lot of them, or my settings were the problem ). With that said, I am debating which camera to get out of the two ( t2i ( 550D ) or a D5000 ). Because I’m on low budget I would rather go with D5000. Which editing software would best be used with either camera? Which is easier to render in?

Or let me rephrase: which software is best ( Vegas, After Effects, Premiere, final cut) is best to use with HD footage out of DSLR without needing to convert? So that I can straight up take the footage I shot, and directly import into the editing software?

Im running windows 7 with 4g (asus K52F laptop) and currently on Vegas Pro 8.

Thanks for any help.

Roman

The ONLY software that will handle DSLR footage straight without any conversion (currently) is Adobe Premiere CS5.

I think the nikon D5000 records in .avi as a motion jpeg. Thats an outdated format and you should be able to edit that natively.

Maybe you should upgrade your software as you are 2 version behind?

which software is best ( Vegas, After Effects, Premiere, final cut) is best to use with HD footage out of DSLR without needing to convert? So that I can straight up take the footage I shot, and directly import into the editing software?

windows 7 with 4g (asus K52F laptop) and currently on Vegas Pro 8.

A friend of mine has Windows 7 with 8 gigs ram & the latest Vegas 10, and all his DSLR footage still had to be converted.

So a straight Vegas upgrade ain't gonna help you.

I have Premiere CS4, which does not handle DSLR footage natively. It runs it okay-ish, but it gets jerky pretty fast. Apparently CS5 runs it fine.

After Effects is not really an editing package. It can be used to do it, but clumsily. It's usually for compositing shorter segments of video. Use the right tool for the right job.

No idea about Final cut.

__________

Also, you are probably not just looking at new software. Your Windows laptop (at 4 gigs ram) is probably underpowered for huge chunks of DSLR footage. Got the bones for a new editing computer, too?

Thanks for the replys guys.

Should I just look into getting a camcorder ( sub $ 500 ) to shoot my movie? I found a few under 500 hundred bucks that seem like they will get the job done.

Here are a few I found:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/671648-REG/Canon_4357B001_VIXIA_HF_M300_Flash.html


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674604-REG/DXG_DXG_A85V_DXG_A85V_HD_Camcorder.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/674190-REG/Panasonic_HDC_SD60K_HDC_SD60_High_Definition_Camco rder.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/672294-REG/Samsung_HMX_H204BN_XAA_HMX_H204BN_Full_HD_Camcorde r.html

I am looking to achieve that film look (duh) with slower frames, hence is why I started to look into the DSLRs. But if you think it will be too much, maybe i should just shoot in 720 hd on a camcorder.

So which way should I go? If my laptop wont handle large chuncks of HD footage, I might have to do the whole movie in chuncks.

Rest of my budget will go on: microphone, lighting set up, props, tripod, and money to build my own jib/dolly and maybe a crane.

The ONLY software that will handle DSLR footage straight without any conversion (currently) is Adobe Premiere CS5.

I know Im the oddball on this board who has to be different using Linux. Cinelerra edits my T2i footage just fine, just drop it into the timeline. Cinelerra does not like the onboard audio but I always get external audio. PLUS Cinelerra is free. Slow learning curve, but still at the price, cannot be beat.

so which way should i go guys? HD camcorder or a DSLR (im leaning towards a D5000)

Roman, if you think this is something you want to expand on in the future, I would go with something like a T2i. You will probably grow tired of $500.00 camcorder in short time with its limitations. However, your laptop isn't going to be able to deal with AVCHD very well, either, without transferring to Cineform.

Honestly, given what you have at your disposal right now, I would stick with Vegas and get yourself an HDV camera either new (hurry) or used. It is the least CPU intensive media to edit.

Good luck and have fun.

thanks CamVader, i've already gotten premiere pro cs5 and after effects.

Now I looked up cineform and what i was able to gather, it converts footage from HD to smaller size without loosing image quality? Am I correct? If not, what is it?

If laptop will be lagging too much, I might upgrade to 6gb from 4gb.

Another option I have, is buy a camera from Costco, I have 90 days, I will shoot my movie and return before 90days as its no questions asked. In this case, should i shoot with camcorder?

If this Cineform thingy, converts the footage the way i think it does. than i dont see why i cant get a dslr.

Also, is t2i worth shelling out more for than D5000? All my sounds will be Foley'd and ADRd in post so mic import is not that much of a deal for me.

Also, if I do, get a dslr and convert the footage to a different format, say MPEG or whatnot, will it be easier to work with for my laptop? If so i might do that as long as quality wont be greatly diminished.

A lot of people use cineform neoscene to convert their DSLR footage so that they can edit smoothly on computers that arent up to the task. The converted file sizes will actually be greater than the ones you'll get out of your camera. And yes, the conversion is visually lossless.

Thank you sir. Large file sizes dont scare me. Im getting an extrenal 1 or 2 TB harddrive.

So i'll be able to shoot my movie with a dslr, convert/render using cineform neoscene and thats gonna help me work with my footage on my laptop and wont lag (or lag very little)?

Although still undecided if to get a dslr or a camcorder (leaning towards sdx1) to shoot my movie.

Download some test footage from the 'net, and try it out with your laptop. That's probably the best way to see if your laptop can handle it.

Most laptops tend to have lame-o graphic chip capabilities, though.

Hmm...your computer scares me for Premiere Pro/AE. From memory, these programs need a minimum of 8gb RAM to be able to get out of their own way and Windows 7 64 bit Pro or Ultimate to even see more than 4gb of RAM.

Most laptops have 5400 RPM drives and you need 7200 RPM's and at least two of them for minimum performance.

I don't have a good feeling about this. There are only an hand full of laptops that can handle CS5. Check this out from Adobe: http://forums.adobe.com/message/1989795#1989795

Ugh...to make matters worse, the above link is for CS4. CS5 is exponentially more demanding.

Thanks for the help everyone :)

The only reason why i was leaning towards Premiere Pro CS5 is because of its ability to handle DSLR footage natively. Now that idea of using neoscene came about, i will use it with my Vegas 8.0 Pro. I've been using vegas on this laptop for a while and it handles it fine. So i guess, I'll edit everything in smaller chuncks because of big files.

Does anyknow know, the diff betwen trial version of neoscene and the full? Maybe I could do some of my rendering/converting in the trial and see how it comes out?

Thanks everyone

Roman.

I would like to add an addition, if I may, to this thread.

After days of deliberations I finally purchased Final Cut Studio today and am mentally gearing myself up for its arrival.

Will I need Cineform Neoscene in order to compress the footage to edit using FCP? I understand that FCP can't handle DSLR footage natively (right?) so I'm assuming I'll require this sort of software, but I don't want to buy it until I'm 100% sure.

Thanks.

Might look at Handbrake.. It's free open source, based on FFMPEG and is pretty flexible for transcoding

Yes you'll need to convert the DSLR footage to do anything with it in final cut. Up to you which format, I'd recommend Apple ProRes. Final Cut/Compressor can actually convert to that for you, not sure how long it will take per file though.

When we say "handle", it generally means you can import, put on the timeline and edit without much, if any rendering. FCS can import DSLR footage, put it in the time line, but everytime you cut or move anything it requires a massive rerender. I brought in some b camera stuff for a kids music video, just a few clips shot on DSLR maybe a minute long each, and jut cutting it required an 18 minute render on a Mac Pro. Better to convert it first.

Ok, so I've been trying some stuff in FCP but just rendering it every time.

I have Final Cut Studio, so I do have Compressor, what would anyone recommend converting the footage to? Cheers!

I don't really know the answer as to what is the best editing software for a DSLR camera. I hear CS5 handles it pretty well.

That being said.

I just dropped some major green on a brand new imac dual core i7 computer. Bumped it up to 8GB of ram.

I also just purchased the full CS5 Production sweet.

Luckily since I'm employed by GE/NBC I got a huge corporate discount. Even though I dropped about 3,500+ on the imac and software I saved about 1,400 dollars.

aghh just shot an email to Cineform and thanks to their awesome customer support I almost right away got an email back with a response:

Neoscene does not support Nikon D5000 . Neo HD does, but at 500 bucks its hard to swallow. Upsetting just that I found a D5000 with the lense for 500 bucks. so i guess gotta save up for a t2i and 130 for neoscene. just heads up if anyone is wondering about neoscene and D5000

Have you considered the GH1? I think they're worth considering.

If budget is an issue, I recommend Vegas.

Hey Cracker Funk,

I already have Vegas Pro 8.0, Premiere Pro CS5 and After Effects CS5. Because my laptop is not of the highest performing ones, everyone tells me i will lag badly. Thats why i wanted neoscene to convert my footage so i can work with it easier. I prefer Vegas over Premiere, although i had some time spent on it under my belt. Right now, I am honing my skills in Vegas and learning After Effects.

I suppose t2i here i come. lol

Thanks guys

Roman

If you're already buying a t2i anyway, you might wait to get it and see how it handles some test footage before flipping the bill for NeoScene. You'de be surprised, because CS5 is 64 bit it handles system resources fairly well. You never know...

I have been editing in Premiere Pro CS5 and it does handle footage nicely, however when I introduce DSLR footage, that might be a diff story.

Reading these threads about using DSLRs and which editing programs can process them, I was gettting the idea that the editing choice if you go with a DSLR ought to be APP CS5 --given the scary sounding problems of "rendering" and "re-rendering." I did try searching "rendering" here on Indie and on google, but without much luck. Sorry for being a noob, but could someone define and explain what is meant by "rendering" in this context?

So my next question was this:

If a PC user decides to go with a DSLR and they've yet to choose a NLE, should he or she go with APP CS5 over Vegas, given Vegas's inability to accept DSLR files directly or natively or... ?

Also, the discussion about the demands of CS5 led me to go to the Adobe and Sony sites and look at their respective technicial requirements. Scary.

So one of CS5's requirements is:
•OHCI-compatible IEEE 1394 port for DV and HDV capture, export to tape, and transmit to DV device


Similarly, one of Vegas's is:
•OHCI-compatible i.LINK® connector/IEEE-1394DV card (for DV and HDV capture and print-to-tape)


Please tell me that your PC doesn't need a firewire port thingy for these programs to work, 'cause I'm pretty sure mine don't have one.

On the CS5 list, an NVIDIA GPU is listed as a requirement. There is no mention of Radeon compatibility. Does that mean that if you have an ATI Radeon, you're out of luck if you wanted to use CS5?

Firewire is strictly for those who are shooting on tape. It is needed to capture your video to your computer, if you shot on miniDV. You will not need it if you are shooting on DSLR.

Vegas handles Canon DSLR footage, in it's native format. You just need a beast of a computer. Also, depending on your computer, even though CS5 and Vegas both handle DSLR footage, cineform might still be a good idea.

For me, the debate between Vegas and Premiere is simple.

Are you broke? Get the $100 version of Vegas. Great bang for your buck.

Do you have a bit of a budget? CS5 is your jam.

Richey,

There are people on this forum that would be more appropriate to answer your questions about this, but I'm going to try to give some basic answers so we don't get mired up in too much technical talk.

If a PC user decides to go with a DSLR and they've yet to choose a NLE, should he or she go with APP CS5 over Vegas, given Vegas's inability to accept DSLR files directly or natively or... ? CS5 will natively accept the H.264 codec from Canon 5D Mk II / 7D or T2i camera footage, but if you convert those files to Cineform Neoscene - http://www.cineform.com/neoscene/ - Sony Vegas or Final Cut pro will handle them just fine. Sure, it's an extra step, but not a big deal in my book.

You don't need an EEEI 1394 (firewire) port for anything related to DSLR's. You'll need a card reader.

On the CS5 list, an NVIDIA GPU is listed as a requirement. There is no mention of Radeon compatibility. Does that mean that if you have an ATI Radeon, you're out of luck if you wanted to use CS5? No, you're not out of luck, but you'll get reduced performance.

Thanks for the help, guys. It's good to know that Vegas can do it, too. I'm lucky to have a bit of a beast of a computer (recently replaced my former, measely puter which died). But yeah, the latest versions of those programs cost an arm and a leg on a smaller income. Ouch. :)

I just caught back up with this thread...

For Vegas 9 users, you may want to look at this: http://www.dvfilm.com/epic/index.htm
Theres a long thread about it here: http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?203921-DVFilm-Epic-I-Realtime-DSLR-editing-in-Vegas-9-Pro