watch Work-in-Progress, first ever effort, need advice.

PositiveFuture · Dec 17, 2010

Work-in-Progress [OLD VERSION!] Please check the other thread

Here's a link to something I need help on.

http://www.vimeo.com/17927712

This is part of a 40 minute free documentary I'm putting together at the moment. I have the 'skeleton' of the doc more or less ready.

I'm aiming to get the same production values as viral breakout movies like Zeitgeist and Loose Change. (Forget whether you like them or not. I have issues with both. Politics aside, just a technical reference point)

I have yet to add:

- Audio fragments of quotes
- Royalty free stock footage
- Interviews with the public
- Extra music
- Interviews with experts in the various fields.

So why show it now?

Because I want to jump in the Indietalk acid bath and see if I'm on the right track, and get some fresh eyes. I need my cutting and visual skills improved. I want to catch mistakes and bad habits early before I encode more vids. Some of the shooting ain't so good, I know. I didn't know how to work the camera that well back then. I have time to reshoot anything at my leisure, with improved skills, but what? Any ideas?

The script for this has had a very enthusiastic response from many quarters. The CONTENT is fine. The question is, can I get away with this level of technical quality? My weak points are my filmmaking skills. I have no illusions, I need to improve them. As Zensteve says, it can only get better from here. I can't be objective any more. For my first ever project I set myself to make a feature length documentary and realised how hard it was.

I shot this with a DVX, but as you can see, with a little bit of filtering, placement and subtle post, you can make any prosumer camera look just like a 200 dollar handycam. Heh.

My strong point is that I've got time, time, time and I'm just going to hack away till it's good. I'm considering buying a royalty free disc set and could easily replace a lot of shots.

BTW, all jpgs are creative commons on Wikimedia, so permission is fine if I credit.

OK, just tell it straight...

1) How was the overall feel?

2) What shots need improvement?

3) What shots need dropping?

4) What cuts are good/bad?

5) Does it grab you? Would you forward it?

6) What do you feel is missing?

7) Anything else?

I feel sure that in 3 months or so this'll be a decent project. Thanks for your help.

EDIT: The initial sound is a bit clicky and there's a grammar mistake in the penultimate frame, I know.

Dreadylocks · Dec 17, 2010

I'm gonna try and watch this when I get home tonight

polfilmblog · Dec 17, 2010

You lacked visual demonstrations of what was being talked about.

It wasn't actually being talked about, but put in text.

People don't like reading their movies.

1) How was the overall feel?

Too many disparate concepts all thrown together with nothing concrete to demonstrate them.

2) What shots need improvement?

Without addressing 1, it doesn't matter.

5) Does it grab you? Would you forward it?

That all depends if you come up with problems and solutions in an effective presentation.

PositiveFuture · Dec 18, 2010

O.K. thanks for the overwhelmingly helpful response everyone. It'll take me a while to wade through all this feedback.

polfilmblog, you made some good points:

You lacked visual demonstrations of what was being talked about.

True, I'll fix this. One problem was that I couldn't get decent quality AVI files demonstrating the fields I wanted to cover. I will try a quick fix with jpgs and see how that works for now.
Anyone know any creative commons sites with high quality AVIs?

It wasn't actually being talked about, but put in text.

True, I will leave that text as white on black titles for now and focus on some audio samples and more footage. I see exactly what you're saying.

People don't like reading their movies.

Haha true...

Too many disparate concepts all thrown together with nothing concrete to demonstrate them.

Disparate? Maybe... the idea is to give an overview of ALL the technology that can help us with the various problems we face. I can't think of a better way to string it together though.

nothing concrete to demonstrate them.

True. Writing and pics isn't enough.

That all depends if you come up with problems and solutions in an effective presentation.

Your points have really pointed out some glaring errors. I'll get to work. Thanks.

Zensteve · Dec 18, 2010

PositiveFuture said:
I have yet to add:

- Audio fragments of quotes
- Royalty free stock footage
- Interviews with the public
- Extra music
- Interviews with experts in the various fields.

So why show it now?

Was wondering the same thing, tbh.

As it is, your video is a series of interesting text catch-phrases married with (your) stock footage.

The script for this has had a very enthusiastic response

Who/what has read it? Serious q.

________

If that was an actual trailer, I would not watch the film. It's all over the place. There is is no coherent (or consistent) call to it.

You've already labeled it as:

a 40 minute free documentary

How is that certain, or even reasonable, given that you've shot almost nothing?

I'm editing a very short doc right now (10 - 15 min est. runtime) from 14 hours of raw video. That's going in knowing what the given goal of the doc is. How are you tring to piece it together?

Archive.org is a great place to find a lot of Public Domain material, btw. Not all of it is, but it's easy to find there.

_______

I'm on the same page as you, I think, but you need to get your material organised.

Fwiw, Zeitgeist is pretty clever (but full of holes, and the sequel even worse), and Loose Change is a nutter. :abduct:

PositiveFuture · Dec 18, 2010

Nice one Steve... That's what I need. This stuff may be obvious to you as an experienced pro but I needed some outside input.

As it is, your video is a series of interesting text catch-phrases married with (your) stock footage.

Fair enough. I wouldn't call it a film yet. Probably a youtube information video. It'll evolve into a half assed documentary then a great one.

If that was an actual trailer, I would not watch the film. It's all over the place. There is is no coherent (or consistent) call to it.

Nice, I'll think about this... Got some vague ideas already.

How is that certain, or even reasonable, given that you've shot almost nothing?

I have 30-40 minutes of voiceover + narration + music at a reasonably ready stage. I'll add the other stuff later... Give it time, but good point. I have a lot mapped out already.

I'm editing a very short doc right now (10 - 15 min est. runtime) from 14 hours of raw video. That's going in knowing what the given goal of the doc is. How are you tring to piece it together?

It's pieced. Those titles you saw all represent 2-10 minute skeleton sections already recorded, soundtracked and visuals added.

Archive.org is a great place to find a lot of Public Domain material, btw. Not all of it is, but it's easy to find there.

Nice...

Posted early, Steve cos I wanted to catch mistakes early. This has helped a lot.

Thanks to both of you for your firm but fair comments. Exactly what I needed. I got no arguments and know where I'm headed now.

I hope people stay interested enough to watch the recut teasers and trailers...

Peace

Cracker Funk · Dec 22, 2010

Focus, Daniel-san.

Your film needs focus. It's too all over the place. Tell me, in one sentence, what this movie is about, and it better be specific.

This is really exciting, though, that you're making such progress. I look forward to seeing the final product (or anything you release before then). What, specifically, have you shot and edited?

PositiveFuture · Jan 23, 2011

focus, Daniel-san.

Your film needs focus. It's too all over the place. Tell me, in one sentence, what this movie is about, and it better be specific.

You're right Sensei...

I'm sorry I wasted 2 minutes of your life with that bad intro... It's really hard to conceptualise all these ideas.

What, specifically, have you shot and edited?

About an hours worth ready...see the other thread I just posted.