Sound Epuip advice

Owen

Owen

Hi guys. Don't know a thing about sound and would like some advice on what to purchase. Used for recording nature, wildlife, interviews ect ect. Hoping for quality sound kit for around $5-10k if possible. I will be filming on Red.
Any recommendations of place to purchase, I'm in Sydney or online.

Thanks
Owen
 
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Good to see you've set aside a decent budget for sound. I'm sure I won't be the only person to suggest this, but… if you don't know a thing about sound, you might be better off hiring someone who does than buying and maintaining your own gear.
 
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Chili has it right - put your budget into hiring someone who already has the gear and knows how to do the job. I'll put together a sound package for you, but the person that you would hire would have better gear and know how to use it inside and out - literally and figuratively. I would guess that you would not be operating the sound gear while you are shooting; if you purchase the gear who will be running it? Do they know gain-staging, signal flow, S/N ratio, mic selection, wireless systems, proper boom technique, etc., etc., etc.?

Okay, now for the list...

Edirol R4Pro recorder/mixer with Oade Bros. Upgrade - $2,500

Rode NTG-3 shotgun kit w/blimp & boom-pole - $1,400

Sennheiser MKH 50 - $1,200

Sennheiser EW100 G3 wireless - $1,000 x 2 = $2,000

Countryman B-6 lavs - $350 x 2 = $700

TOTAL - $7,800

You'll eat up the rest with cables, cases, battery packs, a dead cat and other misc. accessories. If you buy everything as a complete package you can probably negotiate a fairly nice deal. And don't forget the insurance! And yes, you can go cheaper, but this is the gear that will "take a lickin' and keep on tickin'" and will also retain it's value, especially the mics.

I'm sure ROC will have his own list - and probably quite different than my own. Just be sure to do your own thorough research and remember that "opinions are like a$$holes; everybody has one and they all stink!"
 
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Well, my immediate idea that comes to mind is an MKH50 because they are very low self-noise generating (which is what you want on a nature recording) as well as sound great on a voice. But for a nature recording you also want stereo...

Hmm. Tough one to work out. Alcove is always more savvy than me on the location rig stuff.

I can list my dream-rig and it would probably fit in your 5-10K budget...
 
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Thanks for the replies guys. I've got a lot to learn. I want to try and record most of the sound myself, might be dreaming.... Any good recourses you may recommend? The problem is i'm travelling around Australia over 3 years working on my film and i cant really pay a sound guy to spend the whole time with me so will only be hiring for the most important scenes.

Thanks
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Let's back-up and have you describe exactly what you will be doing, what camera, etc. and we'll see what we can do for you.
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Sweet. Its a surf film. Shooting on red. Majority of film will be edited to music. Quite a few interviews but mainly want to record sounds of waves crashing/ thunder storms/ street noise/ waterfalls and similar sounds.
 
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If you are only planning on doing this project (hope you aren't), and because if music is playing you don't necessarily need full-volume ambiences, buy a Zoom H4N and save the 10K.

Then buy a Schoeps CMIT 5U and a Sound Devices 722 for the interview audio, learn how to use and shoot interviews with that mic to make them sound good, buy Pro Tools LE with a 003 interface (unless you have a way of doing the final mixdown otherwise), and you'll have the best sounding Surf Documentary in the world.

P.S. tell one of your surfers to bring their beach towel to throw over the RED camera because that camera makes the loudest noise I have heard a camera make... Or turn off the fan from the camera's option menu.
 
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This will be the first of many projects so I'd rather purchase quality that will last for years rather then rent. I am going to research everything mentioned above and see what I come up with. A few books will be needed too.
Thanks guys
 
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If you're going to purchase then you need to factor in the expense of hiring a sound guy as well.

I guess there are benefits to going both ways, but if you're already shooting on the Red then you're probably in the sort of position to purchase equipment. In that case listen to Alcove and ROC, and certainly not to me! :bow:
 
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Sweet. Its a surf film. Shooting on red. Majority of film will be edited to music. Quite a few interviews but mainly want to record sounds of waves crashing/ thunder storms/ street noise/ waterfalls and similar sounds.
Click to expand...

Okay, that helps. As you are going to be a one man run & gun crew we'll have to approach this differently. That means minimal gear, ease of use, minimal set-up/break-down time.

I must first say that I have no personal experience with the RED camera; here we go...

Everything that I have read from my peers out in the field says "The RED mic pres are crap!" so you will want a mixer and run it to the audio line inputs of the RED. Now, when you are doing a documentary you are basically doing ENG work. That means two different kinds of interviews; the "man on the street" or field interviews and sit-down interviews. I will make the assumption that you will be running the camera in both instances. For the field interviews you should use a camera-mounted short shotgun. For the sit-down interviews you should use lavs. When shooting the action/nature stuff a stereo shotgun will give you a better sound field. Now, this is a total shot in the dark from me, but based upon my experience, blah, blah, blah what I think you will need and how to set it up.

Start with the PSC DV PROMIX 6. It is a six channel mixer with four outputs. You will need to spend some time dialing things in, but once you have it all set up it should be fairly close to "set it and forget it." You are going to have five sources - one mono shotgun, two lavs, one stereo mic - and by having a separate channel for each one you will have to minimal adjustments in the field once you have gained familiarity with the system.

PSC DV PROMIX 6 Kit - $1,400

Rode NTG-3 Mono Shotgun - $700 (field interviews)

Sanken CSS-5 Stereo Shotgun - $2,100 ("action" shooting)

Lectrosonics 100 Series - Wireless UHF Lav Microphone System (includes Tram TR-50 lavs) - $1,400 x 2 = $2,800 (sit-down interviews)


You'll need cases, cables, headphones, blimp, dead cat and other accessories. Probably one of the more important accessories will be a hot-shoe that will get the shotguns above the camera and away from the fan noise. I went with the complete 100 Series wireless as it doesn't matter if the lav is seen when doing interviews (the B-6 lavs are made for hiding).

Well, that's what I would do. Please, go and get a lot of other opinions.
 
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Alcove Audio said:
Okay, that helps. As you are going to be a one man run & gun crew we'll have to approach this differently. That means minimal gear, ease of use, minimal set-up/break-down time.

I must first say that I have no personal experience with the RED camera; here we go...

Everything that I have read from my peers out in the field says "The RED mic pres are crap!" so you will want a mixer and run it to the audio line inputs of the RED. Now, when you are doing a documentary you are basically doing ENG work. That means two different kinds of interviews; the "man on the street" or field interviews and sit-down interviews. I will make the assumption that you will be running the camera in both instances. For the field interviews you should use a camera-mounted short shotgun. For the sit-down interviews you should use lavs. When shooting the action/nature stuff a stereo shotgun will give you a better sound field. Now, this is a total shot in the dark from me, but based upon my experience, blah, blah, blah what I think you will need and how to set it up.

Start with the PSC DV PROMIX 6. It is a six channel mixer with four outputs. You will need to spend some time dialing things in, but once you have it all set up it should be fairly close to "set it and forget it." You are going to have five sources - one mono shotgun, two lavs, one stereo mic - and by having a separate channel for each one you will have to minimal adjustments in the field once you have gained familiarity with the system.

PSC DV PROMIX 6 Kit - $1,400

Rode NTG-3 Mono Shotgun - $700 (field interviews)

Sanken CSS-5 Stereo Shotgun - $2,100 ("action" shooting)

Lectrosonics 100 Series - Wireless UHF Lav Microphone System (includes Tram TR-50 lavs) - $1,400 x 2 = $2,800 (sit-down interviews)


You'll need cases, cables, headphones, blimp, dead cat and other accessories. Probably one of the more important accessories will be a hot-shoe that will get the shotguns above the camera and away from the fan noise. I went with the complete 100 Series wireless as it doesn't matter if the lav is seen when doing interviews (the B-6 lavs are made for hiding).

Well, that's what I would do. Please, go and get a lot of other opinions.
Click to expand...

Mate probably the best answer i've received from a question in my life, thanks heaps for your time. I'll spend some time googling everything you mentioned and see what i come up with. I think you got it spot on though
 
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I really cant see the benefit on investing on your own sound equipment when its going to be fully managed by a specialist, that also has his own equipment.

This means that when hiring the "sound guy" he will have to adapt himself to the equipment you chose, and will probably have to work longer hours to get the results you are looking for, and consequently will charge you more.

I feel that sometimes indie directors forget that a film cannot be a one man show, and are willing to invest obscene amounts of money in equipment, but not in people.
 
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Pedro Monteiro said:
I feel that sometimes indie directors forget that a film cannot be a one man show, and are willing to invest obscene amounts of money in equipment, but not in people.
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I think this is a very good point. Having briefly worked in the camera department of a production using RED, I honestly don't see how one person could cope with the camera - plus lenses, filters, batteries, media, tripod and/or shoulder mount - alone, never mind run sound as well. I think the RED's a great camera, but it's a big one too, and unless you're going to be within a few metres of your transport and the rest of the camera gear all the time, I do think you'll struggle on your own.
 
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I agree with you guys, he would be much better off picking up sound people when he arrives at the locations. However, he wants to DIY, so I let gave him the list and how it should be run. He'll need lots of practice to get everything set up quickly and then dialed in right.

Now, you think that you need sound folks when shooting; do you yourselves retain them for your post work?
 
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Pedro Monteiro said:
I really cant see the benefit on investing on your own sound equipment when its going to be fully managed by a specialist, that also has his own equipment.

This means that when hiring the "sound guy" he will have to adapt himself to the equipment you chose, and will probably have to work longer hours to get the results you are looking for, and consequently will charge you more.

I feel that sometimes indie directors forget that a film cannot be a one man show, and are willing to invest obscene amounts of money in equipment, but not in people.
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Pedro, he's doing interviews and ambience recordings.

It's entirely possible to do interview camera/audio by yourself. I've seen it done and practically one it myself.

If he's doing a 4-camera, 2 lav/2 boom shoot, sure, the other pros will bring their equipment. But for what he told us he's doing, he can absolutely do it by himself...
 
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ROC said:
Pedro, he's doing interviews and ambience recordings.

It's entirely possible to do interview camera/audio by yourself. I've seen it done and practically one it myself.

If he's doing a 4-camera, 2 lav/2 boom shoot, sure, the other pros will bring their equipment. But for what he told us he's doing, he can absolutely do it by himself...
Click to expand...

Spot on. If I struggle I'll call in the pros. Can't hurt giving it a go myself first but. I'll be like one of those musicians playing guitar singing with harmonica and drums on my feet.
 
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Operating the Red, using a boom mic (or setting up lavs) and conducting the interview?

If you're spending that much money on the camera and sound equipment you MUST get someone to either handle the sound or the camera, preferably both. A young, eager sound guy won't cost you that much, but trying to handle it all by yourself is not a good idea. Sure as ROC says it can be done, but it really shouldn't.

What I will say is that if you're working under the ethos of 'Can't hurt giving it a go myself first' (which is a good ethos to have) then maybe you should consider spending less money, or renting the equipment first. What Alcove is describind is, fairly, pro level equipment and, correct me if i'm wrong, not designed to be used by someone who is also operating a camera.
 
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