Audio for a t2i

Hello everyone, I am getting together a small beginners set up to shoot some short films and so far I have chosen the t2i. Like most people I am on a budget, relatively limited. I have noticed that many members here seem to favor DSLR audio adapters, in order to get a clearer sound. Any feedback on the Juicedlink JL-CX211??
I will be getting a boom and shockmount and xlr cable but I've not seen however, a trend as far as mics go. (rode videomic vs azden sgm-1??) So i could use some help on that if you've got the time.
Of course I will be expanding with time but what is your opinion of that as an initial set up? anything essential missing?

Thanks
 
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I would get an external audio device and a decent Rodes shotgun mic. As far as models, I'm not that savvy on particulars of sound equipment.

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I'm not a camera guy, but have read plenty about the trials and tribulations of DSLR audio.

Most DSLRs have a non-defeatable limiting/compression circuit as a part of their audio circuitry, so no matter what you plug into it the audio will be overly processed by the camera. The trend is to use a separate recorder and sync in post. The H4n is popular (not one of favorites, although not bad for $300), as are the Rode NTG-2 and the Audio-Technica AT897 shotgun mics. I would highly recommend a cardioid condenser mic for indoors.
 
Basically right now I just write scripts so how skilled does one have to be to sync the audio in postp. Although I'm going into this ready to learn/put in work, I have no experience with software/hardware at all.

Also what storage device do you record the audio to, while shooting?
 
Syncing sound isn't hard.

If you use a clap board, you should be able to sync really easily. You just sync the exact moment of the clapboard hitting itself, with the obvious spike in the audio track. And viola! You're synced for that clip.
 
In addition to what Alcove pointed out, the T2i has an automatic gain (that you can't turn off) on incoming audio, and the gain does not sound good, one bit. I would strongly recommend the H4n.

Also, Alcove, since you've mentioned that the H4n is not your favorite, which ones might you recommend that are at least close to the same price range?
 
@cracker funk.
I looked at the h4n, and as a novice, to me it looks so different compared the Rode, or the Audio-Technica (shape wise), that I would use by pointing in the direction that I want to get sound from.
How does one go about using the h4n? assuming this is for outdoor use correct?

Thanks again to all.
 
Oh, yeah, sorry. My post was incomplete. I do not recommend the H4n, by itself.

You should still have a somewhat decent mic (I've been using the Rode NTG-2) on a boom and shock-mount, plugged into the H4n, via XLR.
 
I've just been following this thread and i'm in a similar situation.

I'm shooting a documentary so for ease of moving around in the midst of general hubbub i would prefer the mic to go directly through the camera, even if there is a slight loss of quality.

Videogear is a pretty decent (UK based) site and their best deal for a DSLR mic is:

http://www.videogear.co.uk/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=77

I'm planning on getting something like this and then renting a radio mic. Do you think this is enough?

Cheers.
 
Oh ok I see. Would the H4N (on its own) suffice for decent indoor audio, for the time it takes me to save up for the cardioid condenser mic that alcove recommended (few months)?
 
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Suffice, yes. Would you like the results, not likely.

I say not likely because there are exceptions. If you can truly control the sound in the room. Dampen reflections with absorbant or dispursive materials, turn off all noise making stuff including hvac (this makes as much noise as anything), and keep everything else quiet, the you will get nice results. I have yet to be one a job where I had the luxury of being able to totally control noise sources. The solution is to use microphones which offer alot of rejection to sounds coming from the side and back.


Oh ok I see. Would the H4N (on its own) suffice for decent indoor audio, for the time it takes me to save up for the cardioid condenser mic that alcove recommended (few months)?
 
thanks for clearing that up. Even though I have the lighting covered, I reckon im going to be forced to rethink my camera choice since my budget is 1400$ for cam and basic audio. With the t2i taking about 900$, I doubt Ill be able to squeeze an h4n,outdoor+indoor mics out of whats left over.
 
Nonsense! In your price-range, you would need an XLR adapter, regardless of the camera. You would need a basic mic, regardless of the camera. The H4n is barely more than the cost of any XLR adapter.

In your price-range, the T2i is the shit! Get it! It's fucking awesome!

Except, you should consider the Kiss X4. It's the same damn camera. 550D is for Europe. T2i is for America. Kiss X4 is for Japan. Same camera, only difference is what it says on the cosmetic logo. I saved $100 on ebay, by purchasing the Kiss X4. The manual is in Japanese, but you can download an English manual in PDF.

So, that's $800 -- $600 gets you the H4n and the Rode NTG-2. Having a different mic for internal/external is nice, but not entirely necessary. Again, you would have to buy this kind of stuff, regardless of your camera-choice.

I implore you -- get the T2i.
 
Figure out what it is you really want to do.

If you really want to be behind the camera and control the imagery, then you may be best served by teaming up with someone who is passionate about the sound aspects and paying them a fair rate to cover your sound requirements.

Although we would all like to think we can go it all, my experience with filmmaking is that to have a quality product, the only sure way to is to make it collaberative effort with team members who are passionate about each of the aspects of filmmaking.

As a location sound guy, I trust the camera guys and DP to worry about the shot, I trust the writer to have provided a good story, and conversely, they trust me to do my best to get the best location sound I can given the budget.

thanks for clearing that up. Even though I have the lighting covered, I reckon im going to be forced to rethink my camera choice since my budget is 1400$ for cam and basic audio. With the t2i taking about 900$, I doubt Ill be able to squeeze an h4n,outdoor+indoor mics out of whats left over.
 
Oh ok I see. Would the H4N (on its own) suffice for decent indoor audio, for the time it takes me to save up for the cardioid condenser mic that alcove recommended (few months)?

For the indoor cardoid condenser mic, would you still use this on a boom? Doesn't it have to be extremely close to the person speaking?

Okay, let's consolidate the info on the thread for all of the audio newbs...

DSLR audio is crap at best. You will need a separate audio recording system.

The optimum separate audio system would be a digital audio recorder, a mixer and a selection of wired and wireless mics with the obligatory accessories - boom, shock-mount, cables, cases, extra data cards, batteries, etc.

Most indie filmmakers cheap out on sound, so they go with one or two mics and a digital audio recorder; currently the H4n ($299) is the cheapest that will accept XLR inputs and record higher bit/sample rates. Many professional sound types have one in their kit as an emergency third back-up or keep one handy when they're out and about to capture that neat sound to add to their library; but "the pros use it" was all the marketing people needed to hear and that sold it to the ultra-low budget market - that does not make it a professional piece of gear.

You need the proper tools to do specific jobs. A shotgun mic is a good selection for outdoor usage, it has (or should have) terrific off axis rejection - meaning that, in principle, it picks up the sound directly in the front of the mic and rejects sound from the side and back although that is not in actual practice 100% true. A shotgun mic is a poor choice for indoor usage as the way it picks up sound gives the dialog that "roomy" "hollow" "echoey" sound which makes the dialog less intelligible and is almost impossible to mitigate in audio post. The choice for indoors is a hyper-cardioid condenser mic which will lessen the "roomy" "hollow" "echoey" sound but not eliminate it. You can further reduce the roomy sound by properly treating the set with sound blankets and carpeting. And yes, you always use a boom; proper boom technique is another discussion.

A mixer is essential for proper production sound recording; it allows for on-the-fly adjustment of sound levels, usually has much better mic pres, limiters & metering than stand-alone recorders, and will allow for better mix & monitoring distribution.

Syncing sound is simple - use a slate on the set and verbally announce the take. You line up the audio SMACK with the visual; it's been done that way since the inception of sound for picture back in the late 1920's. If you are using video it's even easier - you can line up the wave shapes from the camera and the audio recorder. Keep detailed video and audio logs.

A professional sound cart can cost $50k and more; hell, a single mic that most pros would use costs more than most indie types spend on their entire sound kit! However, all the best gear in the world won't do you any good if you cannot operate it properly and use correct mic/booming/mixing technique. As with all disciplines this takes knowledge and experience to acquire. Your best bet is to work with someone who knows about sound. If you are dead set on DIY you may be better off renting what you need.

Also, Alcove, since you've mentioned that the H4n is not your favorite, which ones might you recommend that are at least close to the same price range?

There is nothing else in that price range which is why it's so popular, it's relatively dirt cheap. In the under $1k range I really like the Fostex FR2-LE ($600) with the Oade Brothers mod (about $300) - better mic pres and they eliminated the hiss from the heaphone monitoring. The Edirol R-44 ($1k) with the Oade mods ($450?) and the Tascam HD-P2 ($750) also with the Oade mods ($350) are quite popular as well, as is the Marantz PMD-671 ($1k) (I hear that Oade may do mods for this as well). The Oade mods put them at a little over $1k, but nothing competes until you get to the $2k+ range like the Sound Devices 702, etc.
 
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