Planning to film in the future - Need camera/lighting advice...

S

snipe2k5

I think I am posting in the right forum, excuse me if I'm not.

I will be attempting to shoot a full length film, with my original screenplay and directing. This is something I've always wanted to do, and now that I have a solid idea of the direction I'll take, I am going to go through with it, albeit at a pace. I am already experienced in still photography, audio editing, soundtrack creation, amateur video editing for insignificant projects (like school), and generally have an eye, ear, and mind that I think has the potential to make something great.

Right now, I just need a little logistics help so I end up using the right gear. I'd like the output to be as phenomenal as possible, technically and aesthetically. The RED cameras intrigue me, but for an average of $3k a week for a basic setup and lenses, it's just not going to work. My plan is to rent all the equipment I need for a week, when it comes to shooting. I will spend an entire day familiarizing myself with the cameras, lighting, audio, etc. Working out all the nuances so I have as much control as possible. I am a very quick learner. Then the next 6 days shooting, making use of nearly all the time we have. Seems a little crazy, but I am very ambitious and have been successful in taking on new things like this.



So let's get down to brass tacks here...


Which cameras and accompanying lens choices options do I have? RED is out of the question because of it's high cost, but I sure would love it. Canon 5d MKII is out of the question too because it's tedious focusing and lack of versatility make it risky since I'll be cramming all those shoots within a week, and there's no room for error. I don't know too much about quality HD cameras other than those. I would like output in 1080p, and IF POSSIBLE, 120fps capability. I'd love the option of being able to slow down things so they look smooth. Side note: 24fps is what I'd be shooting at in order to get the film sort of look, right?

As for microphones, how are those usually handled? Is an ideal way to record crystal clear audio, to get a good stereo condenser microphone, hang it from a boom over the picture being filmed, and record into a laptop with whatever preamps/etc I would use? I would like the audio to be full in frequencies like I see in pro movies. To me, this means getting close. But this obviously can't happen with live shooting. Or is the mics plugged into the camera? Any good microphone information would be great. I don't know too much.


Now, lighting... This is something I hardly know anything about, other than quality lighting is EXPENSIVE, and a pain in the ass to haul around. I can work my scenes around making use of natural lighting and where extensive artificial lighting would be minimal, but I'd like to know just what kind of lights and systems I would need to get properly exposed subjects. I'd prefer to be versatile, shooting out in the sun, against a building, downtown, in the shadows for example, how would I light the person there? And from where? Also, indoor lighting, etc. I'm totally clueless to lighting! But I'd like to keep it strictly budget, so I can purchase and OWN the lighting setups instead of renting expensive setups that I won't understand. I would be willing to tote around a generator for lighting as well.




That's all I can think of for now. I am confident I can handle editing, because I basically have unlimited time to get it just right.



Thank you very much if you read all this:)


-Victor
 
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My suggestion is to shot a short first, so rent the equipment for 1 day to give it a run though before your 1 week. You need to make sure you are comfortable with your equipment before you go and rent it for a whole week on a production shoot & actors, grips etc.

I find the easiest (and often best) lighting choice is a directional light bouncing off the ceiling right in front of the actor(s), especially if its white. I don't like my lights hitting the actor's directly unless your going for that hard light or you have large softboxes (which I find take up a lot of room on set). That said my first film had only natural light and I used fast-glass to light the scenes (there was one location where light or reflector would of been nice, so a small portable light may be required).

Sound (Best free advice your likely to get)
http://www.indietalk.com/blog.php?b=76
http://www.indietalk.com/blog.php?b=77
http://www.indietalk.com/blog.php?b=78
 
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If you are just renting anyway, might I suggest renting a person instead of the equipment. By that I mean find a sound guy who has his own gear, find out what his daily rate is. Same with the camera and lighting, try and find yourself a good DP. You might end up saving yourself a lot of money, too.

People spend years and years just learning one of those crafts that you are going to try and learn in 1/3 of a day. No offense, but I don't care how much of a quick learner you are, that's not going to happen. I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to pull off a decent looking film, just that a lot could go wrong.

Good luck, let us know how it goes :)
 
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Filmmaking is a collaborative process. That’s why you see so many
names on the credits. Have you thought of teaming up with others?

Rather than renting and spending an entire day familiarizing
yourself with the camera, lighting, audio, etc. you could team up
with a camera owner who has spent several years familiarizing
himself with the camera. How about bringing on a gaffer who really
knows lighting? You’ll be amazed how good an audio person is who
has spent several years familiarizing themselves with their own
audio equipment.

This isn’t a slight on you. I believe that you are a quick
learner. But you don’t mention who you will be learning from. I
suspect that even someone as accustom to taking on new things is
not going to be able to learn much by renting a RED and one third
of a day familiarizing yourself with it. Or any other top of the
line camera. Same with audio.

And lighting? I believe that you will not learn much in one third
of a day simply by renting a few lights and familiarizing yourself
with them.

But this isn;t what you want to hear. You want a list:

You should check out the Sony XDCAM and the Panasonic HDC-TM700.
For a camera with a variable frame rate you’ll have to bump up to
the Panasonic Varicam or the Sony F350, F900 or F950. Since you
are renting you should stop by the rental house and sit with one
of the rental people for an hour. Tell them what you want and let
them offer suggestions.

Lighting:
http://www.filmmaking.net/fnetforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8229
http://www.filmmaking.net/fnetforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6290
I’m staying out audio. I just don’t know enough about audio.

Is there any reason you want to do all of this yourself? Why not
team up with people dedicated to their creaft?
 
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The thought of shooting an entire feature in a week with one person being in charge of everything made my body clench....

The indie feature I am currently working on is averaging about 12-14 hrs of location production for every 4 minutes of rough cut output. In other words, if our feature is going to finish out at about 80 minutes, that's a minumum of 240 hours of location work with gear. And that doesn't count any reshoots or ADR.

Others have hit the nail on the head. Rather than hire gear that you've never worked with, and think you can master it's use in a day, hire a DP w/camera, a sound person w/gear, and perhaps a lighting person w/some basic location gear.

I'm a location sound guy, and while I like learning, I let the camera guys do their camera stuff, the lighting guys do their lighting stuff, and we all take our direction from the director who tells us what he wants, rahter than trying to figure out how to get it.

Especially with the time scale you've indicated, it will take a great team to get it done right.

snipe2k5 said:
I think I am posting in the right forum, excuse me if I'm not.

My plan is to rent all the equipment I need for a week, when it comes to shooting. I

-Victor
Click to expand...
 
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Graeme said:
My suggestion is to shot a short first, so rent the equipment for 1 day to give it a run though before your 1 week. You need to make sure you are comfortable with your equipment before you go and rent it for a whole week on a production shoot & actors, grips etc.

I find the easiest (and often best) lighting choice is a directional light bouncing off the ceiling right in front of the actor(s), especially if its white. I don't like my lights hitting the actor's directly unless your going for that hard light or you have large softboxes (which I find take up a lot of room on set). That said my first film had only natural light and I used fast-glass to light the scenes (there was one location where light or reflector would of been nice, so a small portable light may be required).

Sound (Best free advice your likely to get)
link
link
link
Click to expand...

First, thank you for those audio links, they're very helpful! They recommend plugging into the camera, however would a laptop with it's own interface be a better solution? It seems a little safer... but that's just me, heh. Since daily rates are higher than weekly ones, I think it would be better if I rented for a week and spent the first day learning. I already know about proper exposure, apertures, iso's, creative focus, etc being a still photographer. Mainly, I just need some one-on-one time with the camera, the manual, the audio equipment, and the lighting equipment to perfect the image I want recorded. I am very confident in my learning ability with technology. You mentioned fast glass... I really like that idea. I love natural light. Do you think that a modern HD camera will have good enough focus tracking with fast glass though? That's where the 5d MKII falls short :). And how good do reflectors work? I can make my own, there are plenty of DIY guides. I am just worried that they will make the subject look unnaturally bright? I can have a small crew pointing them at the subjects as well.

Dreadylocks said:
If you are just renting anyway, might I suggest renting a person instead of the equipment. By that I mean find a sound guy who has his own gear, find out what his daily rate is. Same with the camera and lighting, try and find yourself a good DP. You might end up saving yourself a lot of money, too.

People spend years and years just learning one of those crafts that you are going to try and learn in 1/3 of a day. No offense, but I don't care how much of a quick learner you are, that's not going to happen. I'm not saying you wouldn't be able to pull off a decent looking film, just that a lot could go wrong.

Good luck, let us know how it goes :)
Click to expand...

I'd still like to make this a little more budget conscious because I feel I can, already having experience in audio recording and how it works. I am willing to buy a nice shotgun, condenser, and boom, and whatever else I need, and practice with it long before the shooting. You are right though, having an assistant would be nice! I think I can train a friend who is interested, into pointing the mics at the subjects properly, and making the gain levels are happy so it's one less thing to worry about for me.

And yes, I absolutely realize how much work people spend into learning ONE craft. However, my background experience in some of them gives me firm understanding on how it works, it's just logistics in film application that I need some guidance on. I do realize alot can go wrong... that's why I'd want to get as much of it out of the way on the "learning" day so I know what to do. I am a very logic-process-reason sort of guy. I think of every possible situation that can go wrong and then figure out a plan. I will definitely let you guys know how it goes, I will probably have more questions later on :). It's going to be a long time before anything comes out though, maybe a year, that's what I anticipate.

directorik said:
Filmmaking is a collaborative process. That’s why you see so many
names on the credits. Have you thought of teaming up with others?

Rather than renting and spending an entire day familiarizing
yourself with the camera, lighting, audio, etc. you could team up
with a camera owner who has spent several years familiarizing
himself with the camera. How about bringing on a gaffer who really
knows lighting? You’ll be amazed how good an audio person is who
has spent several years familiarizing themselves with their own
audio equipment.

This isn’t a slight on you. I believe that you are a quick
learner. But you don’t mention who you will be learning from. I
suspect that even someone as accustom to taking on new things is
not going to be able to learn much by renting a RED and one third
of a day familiarizing yourself with it. Or any other top of the
line camera. Same with audio.

And lighting? I believe that you will not learn much in one third
of a day simply by renting a few lights and familiarizing yourself
with them.

But this isn;t what you want to hear. You want a list:

You should check out the Sony XDCAM and the Panasonic HDC-TM700.
For a camera with a variable frame rate you’ll have to bump up to
the Panasonic Varicam or the Sony F350, F900 or F950. Since you
are renting you should stop by the rental house and sit with one
of the rental people for an hour. Tell them what you want and let
them offer suggestions.

Lighting:
http://www.filmmaking.net/fnetforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8229
http://www.filmmaking.net/fnetforum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6290
I’m staying out audio. I just don’t know enough about audio.

Is there any reason you want to do all of this yourself? Why not
team up with people dedicated to their creaft?
Click to expand...

I have considered teaming up, however still being in High School, I feel that the standards of other students are far below what I am trying to achieve, because, well, it's High School. I know people who are into these sort of things, but they are pretty mediocre at making presentations. I am very picky and like to have as much control over my creation as possible. I will most likely train a friend how to run audio, since I think I will be buying all that equipment. I am confident I can get a decent setup for $1k or under, since I buy all my equipment used.

Lighting though... very tricky, I'm still only thinking at this point. I may rent out one or two man lighting crew to help out. I don't know, it depends on the expense... but I will consider all my options. I'd certainly like to be budget conscious but still produce a great image.

As for learning how a camera works in 1/3 of a day... I plan on using the WHOLE day. I will be very sleep deprived that week I tell you:). I will try to prepare as much as possible, by already knowing how the audio setup will work, and how some lighting will work. Mainly I think I will get as much out of the way as possible so I don't have to overload myself with new unfamiliar things.

I will also look at those lighting links, they look great. If I can find some help from friends (very likely) I might just get my own lighting setup going. I can practice using cheapie camcorders to see how the results look. I looked at the XDcam, does it have interchangeable lenses? It didn't look like it. I pretty much need to have interchangeable lenses, focal lengths and glass speed can make all the difference to me. But you are right, perhaps this is something I need to negotiate with the rental house because they won't necessarily have what you recommend:)

I want to do this by myself because I am a very driven individual who wants to show what I can do. I feel it would be a phenomenal achievement if I pulled off a great looking film! My primary concern is that ONE week of shooting. Everything else, scripts, editing, acting, that has no time limit and I can spend however long I need perfecting those. So if I gain as much knowledge as possible on logistics, when I rent the equipment I will know exactly what I want to do, I will just be learning HOW to accomplish it. I play my scripts in my head, taking into consideration scenery, lighting, angles, all that nice stuff. Making this film will give me an incredible feeling of accomplishment and pride, as well as provide an outlet for my creativity. I plan to compose the soundtrack as well, something minimal but effective, most likely on classical guitar.


gpforet001 said:
The thought of shooting an entire feature in a week with one person being in charge of everything made my body clench....

The indie feature I am currently working on is averaging about 12-14 hrs of location production for every 4 minutes of rough cut output. In other words, if our feature is going to finish out at about 80 minutes, that's a minumum of 240 hours of location work with gear. And that doesn't count any reshoots or ADR.

Others have hit the nail on the head. Rather than hire gear that you've never worked with, and think you can master it's use in a day, hire a DP w/camera, a sound person w/gear, and perhaps a lighting person w/some basic location gear.

I'm a location sound guy, and while I like learning, I let the camera guys do their camera stuff, the lighting guys do their lighting stuff, and we all take our direction from the director who tells us what he wants, rahter than trying to figure out how to get it.

Especially with the time scale you've indicated, it will take a great team to get it done right.
Click to expand...

The more I think about this, the more I think you are right. Everything takes time. I'm gonna have to think about this one and decide what to do. The one week of shooting would require great rehearsal and preparation with fake cameras and gear, so everything is natural and wouldn't need to be shot over and over. But, the luxury of having more time would be great. Who knows. Maybe I could invest in a 5d MKII, and though it's tedious to use for focus tracking, I could make do with it for it's outstanding price and the unlimited time I will have. But I am still thinking. Perhaps there is a friend/relative/stranger with a pro HD camera that would allow me to use it for free or very cheaply.

Audio, if I own the equipment and be familiar with it for a while, I am confident I can have setup right (because, well, I'm already familiar with studio recording, and I'll actually own the setup I will use, and have time to know around it 100%). Lighting, I will try to make minimal use of extensive lighting, trying to employ reflectors and fast glass where necessary. Hiring a lighting person with basic gear is NOT out of the question though. And for the camera, I feel a day is more than adequate for me to be comfortable with the technology.


I feel like a broken record here because I know that you all have reservations about actually making a film with these prerequisites and I'm basically saying "yeah, I know", and especially when you all have more experience than me, it makes me look a bit arrogant. However, on the technical side of things, I have a firm grasp on how things work in general for some things work, but not others. I will practice every way I can with dummy or similar equipment before actually committing to a rental.
 
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Adeimantus said:
No kidding! Took me 6 months to figure out how to use a Kodachrome camera back in the day.
Click to expand...

I wish I had gotten a chance to use Kodachrome before it was discontinued. I've only started still photography in March, and recently I'm using velvia/provia. I just LOVE the colors that slide film gives me, I've pretty much stopped using negatives since I've discovered it. No matter how good digital gets, slide film just always seems to be ahead.


4753199557_72cf60dbcf.jpg
 
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snipe2k5 said:
As for learning how a camera works in 1/3 of a day... I plan on using the WHOLE day. I will be very sleep deprived that week I tell you:).
Click to expand...
Sorry about that. When you said you are going to spend one day
learning how to use a camera, how to light and how to use the
audio equipment I figured you would divide your time evenly. One
third on the camera, one third on the lighting and one third on
the audio. So when will you learn about lighting? When will you
learn how to use the audio equipment?

I shot a feature in 6 days - three of them. Hell, I have directed
two features that were shot in three days. And worked as crew on
four more. Three aspects about my productions that were very, very
different than Victors; I had already directed several features, I
had worked as crew on over a dozen features and I had a crew of
experienced people. Not top professionals by any means, but a crew
who already knew the equipment.

Even when I was in high school I made a short film (shot on film)
using other people. It’s too bad you don’t have anyone to
collaborate with. Doing everything wouldn’t be a sense of
accomplishment - for me anyway. I love working with other people.
But since you don’t know anyone else who has your high standards,
I can see why you need to do this all on your own.

Good luck! I look forward to seeing your movie. when will you
shoot this?
 
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directorik said:
Sorry about that. When you said you are going to spend one day
learning how to use a camera, how to light and how to use the
audio equipment I figured you would divide your time evenly. One
third on the camera, one third on the lighting and one third on
the audio. So when will you learn about lighting? When will you
learn how to use the audio equipment?

I shot a feature in 6 days - three of them. Hell, I have directed
two features that were shot in three days. And worked as crew on
four more. Three aspects about my productions that were very, very
different than Victors; I had already directed several features, I
had worked as crew on over a dozen features and I had a crew of
experienced people. Not top professionals by any means, but a crew
who already knew the equipment.

Even when I was in high school I made a short film (shot on film)
using other people. It’s too bad you don’t have anyone to
collaborate with. Doing everything wouldn’t be a sense of
accomplishment - for me anyway. I love working with other people.
But since you don’t know anyone else who has your high standards,
I can see why you need to do this all on your own.

Good luck! I look forward to seeing your movie. when will you
shoot this?
Click to expand...


Since audio equipment is relatively affordable, and if I buy used, the resale value will let me get my money back later when I sell them. So effectively I'll be getting free audio rental! As for lighting, I'm not sure. I might buy some used setups on craigslist and experiment with a camcorder. Probably closer to the shoot date though. Right now I'm still scripting.

Yes, I agree, having even just one other knowledgeable person really be as dedicated to this and collaborate with me would be nice. Maybe I'll find such a person. But right now I can't think of anyone.

I plan to shoot a while from now, maybe a year or less, so I will have my license by then. Having transportation is going to be paramount in shooting. I also need time to work with all the cast and perfect the script... btw, interesting twist, it's going to be in Korean, with South Korean actors portraying North Koreans. I won't say anymore:)
 
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Have you considered that in a year or so you might find
other people to make a movie with? Have you thought
of making some short movies during the next year so
you can learn about lighting, cameras and audio? Or are
you just going to jump in and make a feature film doing
everything yourself?

You asked a couple of very specific lighting. If over the
next year as you write the script, you find someone with
a little camcorder, put together a light kit like the one in
the links I gave you and practiced, you might get better
than you are right now and be a little more knowledgeable.

Is that a possibility?
 
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Possibly...

I am sure I will be making short clips and testing out the functionality of the lighting to understand it more. As for an actual story, I might do that too because it would help me get used to the coordination of using rolling carts, angles, etc. But absolutely, I will be testing what I can and familiarizing myself with lighting in general, because that's where I lack most in knowledge right now.
 
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