Trying to Budget for first production

B

balugaa

Hey, Guys I am new and just about getting my feet wet, basically decided to produce a short (well shortish) I figure it will be about 20mins, i have a good script and am now trying to prepare the budget for it,

As far as locations are concerned that i have covered, I am planniing to shoot this HD, simply because i figured id pick one format and i chose that.

I am having difficulty trying to budget for the "Film" version of this,

basically i can see how this would work using film .. i would end up cans of the stuff post shooting. Whats the deal with HD?

Is it reasonable that the cinematographer download onto a disk and give me the disk after, or a setup where it downloads from camera to computer? do these type of setups exist?

Basically would like to get it into a format where i could use Final Cut,

Wanted to know what the deal was with this, how much should i allocate budget wise to achive this?

I am based in london, and was also wondering how much i should look to pay a decent director and DOP i.e. going rates etc ..


Please advise

Many Thanks

Mo
 
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balugaa said:
basically i can see how this would work using film .. i would end up cans of the stuff post shooting. Whats the deal with HD?

Is it reasonable that the cinematographer download onto a disk and give me the disk after, or a setup where it downloads from camera to computer? do these type of setups exist?

Basically would like to get it into a format where i could use Final Cut
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Mo,

Question 1: Are you shooting in true HD or HDV? HUGE cost difference in equipment rental/purchase.

Question 2: Are you using a tape-based or tapeless medium? With tape, obviously the DP would just hand you the raw footage as each reel is shot. In the latter case it would have to be downloaded.

Yes, downloading from camera to computer is possible. You can either do it on the set or in your post facility. If you're using tape you'll want to wait, as it happens in real time. With tapeless, it's much quicker so can be done right there, if need be.
 
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Q1 - This is the thing in terms of rental/equipment i am not planning to buy the stuff but hire a DOP or Cinematographer who has equipement .. and Q2 overlaps here, the way i am thinking about this is .. I want to hire a dude who a has a camera ... and ends up downloading all the shot material onto a disk which i can take to the editor dude ,,,

This is the plan, just trying to figure out how much it would cost .

Also I am simply producing this short as a first project to get a feel for the business, I guess you could say i am the producer financier in the strict sense.

I have seen quotes around for a 3 man crew including equipment for around £1500/$2500 per day but they seemed top notch ..and i am trying to avoid the situation where i buy tapes ...
 
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balugaa said:
Q1 - This is the thing in terms of rental/equipment i am not planning to buy the stuff but hire a DOP or Cinematographer who has equipement .. and Q2 overlaps here, the way i am thinking about this is .. I want to hire a dude who a has a camera ... and ends up downloading all the shot material onto a disk which i can take to the editor dude ,,,

This is the plan, just trying to figure out how much it would cost .
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Right, but see, thing is you need to decide whether you're hiring a shooter with true HD gear or one with HDV gear. The former is a professional format, so will likely cost you considerably more as he will have invested a significant amount in his gear. The latter is for the more budget-conscious filmmaker.

Obviously, if you can afford true HD then that is the way to go. I'm not in a position to give you figures as far as cost to hire someone (I don't live in London, for one thing), but just trying to point out the things you need to consider when asking the question.

I'm also not quite clear on your aversion to tape. Tape stock is CHEAP compared to anything else. And you're left with a semi-permanent storage medium for your raw footage.

However, if you're locked into transferring straight to disc there's certainly nothing wrong with that.
 
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2001 Productions said:
Thanks, Alcove...figured that went without saying :D
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It must always be said. Sound is the most overlooked aspect of filmmaking at the indie level. 90% of the projects that come into my studio have horrendous production sound and I am somehow expected to take this garbage and turn it into an Oscar winner. Hey I'm a genius, not a miracle worker:D.
 
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If you are shooting True HD, then:

-Either you or the DP with have a Laptop, and you will need an External HDD. The DP or his AC will Dump (Or Download) the files onto the external HDD and then you have all the files at the end of the shoot to either bring into your comp, or bring to your editor.

If its HDV then;

-It will be recorded on Tapes, and you will then have to rent or pay someone to offload the footage onto a computer/HDD. Most DPs will be hesitant to do it with their camera, as it causes wear to the camera tape heads.

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I couldn't tell you true rates, because it depends on days you shoot, and what gear your getting (HDV, HD, 35mm adapter, accessories, etc.)

But 20 minutes/pages will probably take 4-8 days on average for a small film set.

DPs go anywhere from $150/day to $600/day (No gear). Then add about another $100-$500/day depending on camera gear.
Directors can vary widely in price. You can probably get one to do it for very low, but they might not be as experienced as someone you pay more.
 
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And no, I havent forgotten about the sound, but isnt this what the sound dude does, by this i mean the dubbing, the music the effects etc,

Since this is a practise project for me .. i m trying to do it properly, and spend some money, i.e. almost similar to what one would do on a feature but on a much smaller level

Hnce the short script that i have in 3 locations ..

Since I dont want to tapes will aim to get costings from the cameraman for HD to disk,

So so far the dudes that i have ..
1. The camera dude + crew im thinking about 3
2. The editor dude
3. the sound dude .. (maybe this can be the editor dude too)
4. The director
5. The DOP (this i guess could also be the camera dude)
6. The acting dudes are free so far ..

So trying to cost 1-5 to see what the number comes to .. then will chop and shave .. :)
 
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balugaa said:
And no, I havent forgotten about the sound, but isnt this what the sound dude does, by this i mean the dubbing, the music the effects etc,
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um...I think alcove is referring to the "location sound recordist", not the sound editor. Maybe that's who you're referring to as well, but typically they are not the same person, fyi.
 
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On location is the production sound mixer and the boom-op (quite often the same person on very low budget productions) and sometimes a sound assistant (wrangler).

For audio post it can be anything from a "one-man-band" like yours truly all the way up to teams dedicated to each aspect of audio post - dialog, ADR, Foley, Sound FX and mix - overseen by a supervising sound editor and/or sound designer.

The smaller your budget the more you should allocate towards production sound as you will have to live almost exclusively with the sound you capture on set and would not have the funds for a comprehensive audio post production.
 
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ok so for the three man crew i get
Lighting Cameraman, Sound Recordist & Electrician,

is this the preferred option or can go with a 2 man crew
i.e. Lighting Cameraman, Sound Recordist

Just wanted to say thanks for all the advise you have given so far ..
 
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Depends how much time you have to spend on the shoot. I know several DP's who are their own gaffer, but it takes longer between setups. What you save in paying an additional crew member may end up costing you more in longer or additional shooting days.
 
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look, no one can give you a budget estimate.

that is pre-productions job, if they are not doing a good one, then that is something you should look into.
or, if your pre proction, look things up.
doing your own work will not only get you much more specific results, but you'll remember them better, get a wider area of knowledge on prices for next time, and understand how things work.

all the information you would need is present in this site,, just hit all the sections to the forums and you can gain a large amount of help and information without even asking a question.

here you go.

http://www.indietalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=238

read up, research, calculate.

level of difficulty: low.
 
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Thanks tongol, i see what you are saying, first off i have this forum to be extremely useful,

Second, I need to have an idea aas to how much these things cost, it would be stupid of me not to, its my money i will be spending. I am not going to pay people however much money they ask for.

Lets put it this way i am ready to pay what everyone else pays not what someone asks for

From this site I have obtained good estimations as to what is required

And I am really glad to you think pre-production and all the information and things to consider therein has a low difficulty level, because I am not finding it easy at all .....
 
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