I'm curious as to what it's like pursuing a career as a film director, especially in Los Angeles. How difficult is it? What are your tips for aspiring directors? ect...

Directing films? It's hard. Really hard to make a career out of it. But if you keep at it and don't ever quit and try to better your craft then it is doable. If it was easy everyone would do it. The trick is to always continue to better yourself. It isn't going to happen overnight and nobody else is going to do it for you. Your the one who has to make it happen. But you can always be a film director without making a career out of it. Everyday people pick up a camera and make films. That's easy to do. But yeah... a career... that takes a lot of work, patience, and learning.

Nothing can be compaired to dream-chasing. There is nothing hard about it as long as you'll have it no other way. Take strides toward it daily. Settle for nothing.

If you really want to direct, write a script someone wants to buy. Have a killer reeel.

I'm going to offer an important lick of advice for you.... Become a Independent Writer/Director... You don't need Hollywood or Los Angeles in order to make a film.

It all boils down to this. STORY! I'm going to say it again. STORY!

Write a damn good story. If you have a damn good story I don't give a sh!t if you shoot the movie on VHS, people will enjoy it. People will be engaged in the story.

Hit me up on e-mail if you'd like to talk some more about this. I'd gladly help you out in any way I can!

Many of the great filmmakers come into filmaking later in their lives because they've lived their life more. So it's harder for us young people (i'm 15 years old) to tell great stories.

To sum it up nice. There's a nice little quote on becoming a director.


A proffessor asks his Freshman Film class to raise their hand if they want to become a Director.
All 400 Students raise their hand.

Proffesor: "Now everyone put your hands down except 1... and that's if your lucky."

Many of the great filmmakers come into filmaking later in their lives because they've lived their life more. So it's harder for us young people (i'm 15 years old) to tell great stories.

I'm in that position. I went to college late (got my BA at 30yo) and after college languished for another 5 years or so in the 9-5 world before diving head first back into film making when I got laid off.

Don't get discouraged by your youth, it is an asset. I have been turned down for multiple good opportunities as an indirect result of being older than the folks doing the hiring. Breaking into this biz as a freelancer (my paid experience is mostly as an AC, but also on the PA/AD/Coordinator side as well) is difficult when you are a little older but starting out.

Perhaps that is a different track than directing, and perhaps I have to take another approach. My thought was that by being "in" I increased my knowledge, contacts, etc. Now I wonder if I am pigeonholing myself somehow.

Costa is right, though the ratio is probably a couple orders of magnitude larger than in the example.

I want to say two things.

CDCosta - Yeah, I heard that before. I must say that is the biggest bull crap story in the world. For one, why even have a Professor (who's only a teacher in reality) DICTATE on your odds at becoming a filmmaker. And two, this is coming from a teacher who probably wishes he was a director and not a teacher.

There wouldn't be only 1 person holding up there hand after the teacher told everyone to put their hands down... Why? Because I would still be holding up my hand and then I would continue to tell the professor his OPINION means squat.

Now that I got that off my chest!

Yeah, Youth has nothing to do with writing/telling good stories. Do you really think James Cameron lived the experience of traveling to the Planet Pandora like in the movie Avatar? Do you think Sam Raimi followed Spiderman around in the city? No!

They are all stories, all created from the imagination. You can be 15, 20 or 40 and still tell a great and interesting story. Using age as a factor of not being able to tell stories is an excuse. Now go sit down and write!

Haha. It wasn't really said. It was a story that was giving the example of how hard it is to become a director as a career.

Well, I understand. I wasn't trying to bash you for the story. I was bashing the story in itself. And that's the thing, I don't think it's impossibly hard to become a director as a career... Maybe by going through a middle man such as hollywood in order for people to see your work, but it's 2010. Times are different... It's much easier to make a career of it.

But, what it all boils down to is STORY. I said it once, I will say it again. Reason why people don't make it is because they aren't good story tellers. Simple as that.

Well, I understand. I wasn't trying to bash you for the story. I was bashing the story in itself. And that's the thing, I don't think it's impossibly hard to become a director as a career... Maybe by going through a middle man such as hollywood in order for people to see your work, but it's 2010. Times are different... It's much easier to make a career of it.

But, what it all boils down to is STORY. I said it once, I will say it again. Reason why people don't make it is because they aren't good story tellers. Simple as that.

Unfortunately your false.

Have you not seen all those really bad hollywood movies with horrible stories? It's because knowing people in the industry and selling yourself (Or your crap) is what it's mostly about.

See, I'm not wrong. You are talking about the "Middleman" aka "Hollywood" where as I am stating the average person does not need Hollywood to become a successful writer/director/filmmaker.

If you want to talk about Hollywood then that is an entirely different story. Hundreds of Thousands of writers, etc. are constantly trying to break into Hollywood. Most never make it. This is not the case anymore.

People, including you need to re-hardwire your brain and stop thinking that Hollywood is the only way to become successful. Because it's not!

A MIDDLEMAN IS NEEDED NO MORE!

For narritive, its either broadcast or hollywood. And they both involve knowing people.

If you say that making $30,000 from a film that takes 6 months and goes straight to DvD or sold online, then that's a matter opinion of success.

Success is measured by happiness, not currency. That's my opinion.

If John Doe wakes up every morning not worrying about getting to work on time under the demands of a boss, if he doesn't have to worry about working under authority then I would say 30,000 dollars in a matter of 6 months time is pretty damn good. Heck, it's better than pretty damn good.

If you're in this line of work for the money, take a walk. If you're in it for the passion, then 30,000 dollars is a success. You make 2 movies a year, make 60,000 in end of it all.... I mean, are you kidding me!?!? Do you know how many people live paycheck to paycheck working a job they absolutely hate just to get by paying the rent and bills!!!

Again, if people measure success in currency, then they need to take a step back and re-evaluate life! Just sayin'.

Yeah, Youth has nothing to do with writing/telling good stories. Do you really think James Cameron lived the experience of traveling to the Planet Pandora like in the movie Avatar? Do you think Sam Raimi followed Spiderman around in the city? No!

They are all stories, all created from the imagination. You can be 15, 20 or 40 and still tell a great and interesting story. Using age as a factor of not being able to tell stories is an excuse. Now go sit down and write!

haha not a very good example.. avatar and spider-man both have HORRIBLE stories.

avatar actually contradicts your point, it can be a 'good' movie because they have insane specially effects that people nut all over then it has a 3rd grade story. lame.

Tarantino, now he is a story teller. and he never went to college and he started fairly young. hell, he didnt even go to high school.

the moral of the story, if you want to be a classic american director: drop out of school and work at a video store.

that's what i'm going to do

haha not a very good example.. avatar and spider-man both have HORRIBLE stories.

avatar actually contradicts your point, it can be a 'good' movie because they have insane specially effects that people nut all over then it has a 3rd grade story. lame.

Tarantino, now he is a story teller. and he never went to college and he started fairly young. hell, he didnt even go to high school.

the moral of the story, if you want to be a classic american director: drop out of school and work at a video store.

that's what i'm going to do

Regardless of the people I mentioned, you're missing the point. AGE has NOTHING to do with with telling stories. Avatar wasn't a bad story. It was a familiar story, that's all. We've seen it before.

Subjective anyways.

Success is measured by happiness, not currency. That's my opinion.
I’m a little confused. You say success is measured by happiness,
not currency. Yet you say that $30,000 is a success if you are
making movies out of passion. Do you mean that anyone making
$30,000 or $60,000 should be happy? What about filmmakers who are
in it for the passion and don’t make more than, say, $1,000? If
they are happy, they are, in your opinion, successful. So if a
person making $30,000 (or ($60,000) isn’t happy then they are not,
in your opinion successful.

I’m just not understanding.



If you're in this line of work for the money, take a walk.

Why? I’m in it for the money. Why should I “take a walk?"? I’m not
in it for the passion. I’d be interested in you opinion on why you
feel I should leave the business.

Now, I do agree with you that success shouldn't be measured in
how much you make, so I do understand you there.

Alright, I can see where the confusion is.

ps, I'm a contradicting kind of guy! *wink*

Alright, let's say you work a job and you make 90,000/year. But the thing is, you hate your job. You can't stand your job. You work 10ish hours a day and hate it more and more with every passing day

Now let's say I am able to support myself with my independent filmmaking. I make 20,000/year. I love waking up everyday and working solely on films. 8-12 hours a day I can write, shoot, edit, create.

In these two scenarios, who is more successful?

Secondly, what I mean to say is that if I wake up every single day getting to do exactly what I am passionate about, whether it be 20,000, 25,000 or 30,000, then I would be HAPPY. Tickled Pink. Since I am happy I would consider it a success. I get to wake up and do what I am passionate about. I'm happy! Success!

If I made 200,000 a year working a job that I hate, If I am making 500,000 dollars but I despise my job. I'm not going to be happy. I'm not going to be perusing my passion. So where is the happiness? Where's the success.

Not sure if any of that make sense!?

Now, regarding my opinion on why you should take a walk if you're in it for the money.
Why would you put your heart and soul into something that you aren't passionate about when there are so many easier and alternate ways in making money? I don't understand the logic? If you are looking to make money, find a faster and easier way. Why waste your time and effort making a film when all that matters is currency?

Alright, I can see where the confusion is.

ps, I'm a contradicting kind of guy! *wink*

Alright, let's say you work a job and you make 90,000/year. But the thing is, you hate your job. You can't stand your job. You work 10ish hours a day and hate it more and more with every passing day

Now let's say I am able to support myself with my independent filmmaking. I make 20,000/year. I love waking up everyday and working solely on films. 8-12 hours a day I can write, shoot, edit, create.

In these two scenarios, who is more successful?

Secondly, what I mean to say is that if I wake up every single day getting to do exactly what I am passionate about, whether it be 20,000, 25,000 or 30,000, then I would be HAPPY. Tickled Pink. Since I am happy I would consider it a success. I get to wake up and do what I am passionate about. I'm happy! Success!

If I made 200,000 a year working a job that I hate, If I am making 500,000 dollars but I despise my job. I'm not going to be happy. I'm not going to be perusing my passion. So where is the happiness? Where's the success.

Not sure if any of that make sense!?

Now, regarding my opinion on why you should take a walk if you're in it for the money.
Why would you put your heart and soul into something that you aren't passionate about when there are so many easier and alternate ways in making money? I don't understand the logic? If you are looking to make money, find a faster and easier way. Why waste your time and effort making a film when all that matters is currency?


I'm sorry, but your argument is null.

Just because you hate what you do, doesnt make you unsuccesfull... it makes you unhappy.

Why put your heart and soul into something your not passionate about? What if he is passionate about making money?

Try making a film when you make $30K a year... when you have a house, a car, and a kid to pay for...

Alright, let's say you work a job and you make 90,000/year. But the thing is, you hate your job. You can't stand your job. You work 10ish hours a day and hate it more and more with every passing day

Now let's say I am able to support myself with my independent filmmaking. I make 20,000/year. I love waking up everyday and working solely on films. 8-12 hours a day I can write, shoot, edit, create.

In these two scenarios, who is more successful?
Objectively? Based only on facts and not influenced by personal
beliefs or feelings? I don't know that you can can say with any
objectivity that one or the other is more successful. YOU would
be happier and thus more successful based on YOUR opinion,
but I cannot answer your question with any objective certainty.
But I know there are many people who feel the money makes
them more successful in their opinion.



Now, regarding my opinion on why you should take a walk if you're in it for the money.
Why would you put your heart and soul into something that you aren't passionate about when there are so many easier and alternate ways in making money?[quote]
Are you certain that for me (and in your comment for everyone)
there are so many easier and alternate ways in making money?
You don't know me or my background. I didn't graduate high
school. When I dropped out I was getting a GPA of 1. I have spent
my entire working life in entertainment - TV, theater, theme parks,
live events and movies. I don't even have the skills to work a cash
register in a retail store or fast food place. I can't think of a single
thing I can do to make money.

[QUOTE=TheOpusFuller;106500]I don't understand the logic? If you are looking to make money, find a faster and easier way. Why waste your time and effort making a film when all that matters is currency?
The logic is I don't know a faster, easier way. You call making a film a waste of my time and effort when all the matters is currency, I call it the way I make my living.

So help me out here OpusFuller. For a guy like me; high school drop
out, no college, no "real" work experience at all, what would be a
faster and easier way to make money?

Perhaps that's an extreme example - I certianly couldn't walk away
now. It's the only think I know. But what advice would you have
given me the week I dropped out of high school with dreams of
becoming a filmmaker? Not out of passion but because I wanted to
earn money. What other method of earning a living would you have
suggested as faster and easier?

I don't understand your logic of walking away if all you're in it for
is the money.

I'm sorry, but your argument is null.

Just because you hate what you do, doesnt make you unsuccesfull... it makes you unhappy.

Why put your heart and soul into something your not passionate about? What if he is passionate about making money?

Try making a film when you make $30K a year... when you have a house, a car, and a kid to pay for...

Nothing null about it.

Again, what if he is passionate about making money. Since you happened to shorten what I said and leave out the importance of the matter. Okay, so he's passionate about making money. Why MAKE a film? Something that is very difficult to do (or so a lot of people claim). Why not work at a grocery store, buy up stock, etc. There are many easy ways to make money. Making a film takes a lot of hustle, hard work, time and energy. AGAIN, if he is passionate about making money, why make it only by the means of making a film!? If you're trying to make a point, it's not a very good one. Sorry to say.

Don't make me laugh with your comment about making a film with 30,000 while paying for a house, car or a kid. I made an award winning short film with 600 dollars and was making well under 30,000.

*Shrugs*

Objectively? Based only on facts and not influenced by personal
beliefs or feelings? I don't know that you can can say with any
objectivity that one or the other is more successful. YOU would
be happier and thus more successful based on YOUR opinion,
but I cannot answer your question with any objective certainty.
But I know there are many people who feel the money makes
them more successful in their opinion.


[QUOTE=TheOpusFuller;106500]
Now, regarding my opinion on why you should take a walk if you're in it for the money.
Why would you put your heart and soul into something that you aren't passionate about when there are so many easier and alternate ways in making money?[quote]
Are you certain that for me (and in your comment for everyone)
there are so many easier and alternate ways in making money?
You don't know me or my background. I didn't graduate high
school. When I dropped out I was getting a GPA of 1. I have spent
my entire working life in entertainment - TV, theater, theme parks,
live events and movies. I don't even have the skills to work a cash
register in a retail store or fast food place. I can't think of a single
thing I can do to make money.


The logic is I don't know a faster, easier way. You call making a film a waste of my time and effort when all the matters is currency, I call it the way I make my living.

So help me out here OpusFuller. For a guy like me; high school drop
out, no college, no "real" work experience at all, what would be a
faster and easier way to make money?

Perhaps that's an extreme example - I certianly couldn't walk away
now. It's the only think I know. But what advice would you have
given me the week I dropped out of high school with dreams of
becoming a filmmaker? Not out of passion but because I wanted to
earn money. What other method of earning a living would you have
suggested as faster and easier?

I don't understand your logic of walking away if all you're in it for
is the money.

Give me your name, the films you have made if any. If you can do that, then yes, I'll gladly continue this conversation. If you can't, then you made my point and I rest my case. So until you give me some cred's, why bother talking in hypothetical bud?

Answered my own question.

Rik Carter, you wrote and directed "Dark Crimes", had a budget of 50,000 and .....

So how much did you make on that? Did it hit an indy theater? Throw some numbers at me?

I apologize.

I didn't realize we couldn't have a conversation unless I posted
my resume. I was just curious about the statement you made. I
thought a friendly discussion would be of interest to both of us.
Since the only way you will continue is if I submit a full resume
I am no longer interested.

I still don't understand your point, but I guess I concede that
you win.

Ok.

I'm sorry TheOpusFuller, but it seems like you are way to one-sided and very shitty about the way you disscuss opinions.

I'm going to leave at that we agree to disagree.

PS.

Directorik is very well known on these boards and has proven his wisdom in this field of work, and thus does not need to attest to you.

I apologize.

I didn't realize we couldn't have a conversation unless I posted
my resume. I was just curious about the statement you made. I
thought a friendly discussion would be of interest to both of us.
Since the only way you will continue is if I submit a full resume
I am no longer interested.

I still don't understand your point, but I guess I concede that
you win.

It's not about winning or losing, so I don't understand why you have that frame of mind.

Here's my reasoning for asking about you CV. You've been making movies since '87. I'm pretty sure I'm correct on this since IMDB is pretty strict with what they accept/deny on their website.

That's the glory of technology....

I don't understand how you do not understand my point. You claim you are making movies because you're passionate about making money. Well, you have obviously been doing it for 23 years. I believe I am correct on that. So, that's my point. How much money did you really make in that 23 years of filmmaking?

You asked me, "what would be a
faster and easier way to make money?"

Well, have you really been making of off the films listed on your IMDB page?

That's my point, it has nothing to do with personal taste, if I think your movies are good or bad, etc. This conversation is about making Fast, Easy money, ie "what would be a
faster and easier way to make money?"

This is completely a friendly discussion.... I just think people are way too soft when talking about shit that can really help them or open their eyes. How do you know after all said and done you might walk away with the mindset of.... Well, I'f I have been making films for 23 years and I haven't been making much money off of it, then maybe I am in it for the passion. Maybe I am in it for the love.

If you can't see my point in what I stated above, then I really don't know how to make it any clearer.

PS.

Directorik is very well known on these boards and has proven his wisdom in this field of work, and thus does not need to attest to you.

CDCosta, let's not get off topic here. We're not talking about wisdom in this field of work. We're talking about making fast and easy money. I suggest scrolling back through the posts.

I'm sorry if I seem one sided about stressing my opinion. Really. It's something I will work on. Or at least try to discuss in a lighter tone.

I still feel that Directorik is in it for the Passion and not the currency... So i'm going to leave it at that.

Well, this thread had potential.

Here's the thing for anyone who is interested on some level of financial return for their film making investment:

Director - just like IT Administrator, Sales Manager, Camera Operator, 1st AD, Ditch Digger, or whatever - is a job title. That it is a type of job that precludes (in most cases) pursuit unless someone actually enjoys doing it does not change the fact that it is a job. The OP didn't ask "What is it like pursing the passion of film making with your own resources nights and weekends strictly for the sake of art" That's a different (and valid) question. The question was about Directing as a Career, and frankly I'd like to see the discussion turn back in that direction as I have many more questions about the Non-Creative aspects of a Directing career.

If anyone says they are only into film making for the passion, they are most likely bending the truth.

Sure, I love making films, and I'd be happy with making films for just enough to get by in life. But humans are naturally instinctive to survive, and money helps with survival, and also can show success.

Now the OP asked "How hard is it to become a director as a career?"

Career as in making enough money to survive and as your only job.

The awnser remains the same: It's hard. The film industry is mainly Freelance jobs, and that means your always looking and trying to prove yourself worthy for the next job. Almost everyone on this board has a second job, or works at other positions in the film industry other then Directing.

Opus,

I don’t completely have a difference of opinion on some things you have put forth, in fact, I think the hope in the notion of film makers being able to make it outside of Hollywood is very important. However, after reading all of this I am left wondering a few things.

1st. After illustrating various points of view by way of things like..:

“.. If John Doe wakes up every morning..”
“..This is coming from a teacher who probably wishes he was a director and not a teacher.”
“.. There wouldn't be only 1 person holding up there hand…”
“.. I would still be holding up my hand and then I would continue to tell the professor..”
“.. Alright, let's say you work a job and you make 90,000/year…”
“.. Now let's say I am able to support myself with my independent filmmaking…”
“.. If I made 200,000 a year working a job that I hate..”
“.. Why not work at a grocery store, buy up stock, etc.…”

Why then suggest hypothetical not be used in response?
Am I misreading things, and you really mean something along the lines of let’s now forego the hypothetical?


2nd. If someone thinking of getting into film, or someone is in film to make money should take a walk because there are easier ways to make money, then by the same token shouldn’t someone able to support themselves with film by working 8-12 hours a day also take one?


3rd. I don’t see how Rik never actually saying he was passionate about making money became him claiming he was.


-Thanks-

basic answer to the actual question: Tough. Why? Because any career is tough to pursue if you start from the ground up.