Indoor fire stunt?

dandollar

dandollar

Howdy everybody! This is my first post here, feels fantastic. I'm making a short film in January and require a scene with a fire blazing in a kitchen trash can. Any advice on how to accomplish this? I was thinking posting on craigslist.com to hire someone, but if there's literature out there on how to do it myself, I'd much rather try that.

Thanks in advance!

Dan
 
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What kind of trash can is going to be? I recommended metal of some sort. Also this can be done by you, all you need to do is be careful. Make sure you have a WORKING fire extinguisher near by (as in right next to you), make sure that the fire will not be near any flammable objects like curtains or booze. I would also have a first aid kit handy just in case someone does get a light burn.
 
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Whoa! Fire indoors, no! Dude the whole house could go up. Do not even attempt! For this you definitely need a licensed pyrotechnician and do not risk your house! Shoot it in a studio facility equipped for it.
 
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TheBuck said:
If he's doing it in a trash can its as bout as dangorus a fireplace.
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Uh... ok. A fireplace is made for a fire, it's enclosed and has a chimney. A house can go up in flames from a small fire in a trash can, or you could be overcome by smoke.
 
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dandollar said:
thanks for the responses guys! although i'm not sure where this leaves me...i think the metal trash can is not a bad idea, but i also want to be safe...
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okay, i got some ideas.
get a green screen (easy way to make a super cheap one is to go to walmart and pick up a bunch of 49 cent lime green posters, and tape them together on the back end)

now, get the paper i spoke off above, and tape it around the trash can.
go outside and film the trashcan at the angle you plan to shoot in the room indoors with the fire going.

now once you remove all the green you should have the smoke and fire ALL BY ITSELF. you can move it around to fit perfectly in the trashcan in your housewith some video editing.

not good enough, you need to be able to kick it around a lil?

(now even though kicking around a trashcan that is on fire in you house is RETARDED, there are only longggg detailed ways to imitate it(without making it look fake). my advice, axe out the scene if it requires it.)

another thing you could do, make it a TINY fire, mostly fast burning brush, and mix in a LOT of dirt. this will cause a HUGE amount of smoke, and you CAN NOT breath it in for long. so keep your windows open. test to see how much dirt you will need to keep the fire at a safe level and smokey enough for people to know that there is a fire in the film.

cons of this.

your camera needs a clear shot if you want it too look right, that's why most high scale movies, record smoke effects in front of a green screen and plug them in using video editing along with some CGI.

the only other thing i could suggest is...... throw a lil bit of burnable material that can easily be put out at the very bottom of the trashcan and hope for dear life nothing goes wrong....

that and don't even use the scene.

WHAT I WOULD DO.

go outside and film it in front of a green screen. along with all the cast and crew, make it easier by only doing upper torso, if just doing the trashcan alone is not a option.


when filming, you have to be very aware on how you plan to achieve your effects.on major films, the effects team and the lighting team and the cameramen work EXTREMELY close together.


hope this helped some how.

and remember, nothing beats the real thing. but, the real thing has the possibility of costing you a lot of money.....
 
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tongoll said:
okay, i got some ideas.
get a green screen (easy way to make a super cheap one is to go to walmart and pick up a bunch of 49 cent lime green posters, and tape them together on the back end)

now, get the paper i spoke off above, and tape it around the trash can.
go outside and film the trashcan at the angle you plan to shoot in the room indoors with the fire going.

now once you remove all the green you should have the smoke and fire ALL BY ITSELF. you can move it around to fit perfectly in the trashcan in your housewith some video editing.

not good enough, you need to be able to kick it around a lil?

(now even though kicking around a trashcan that is on fire in you house is RETARDED, there are only longggg detailed ways to imitate it(without making it look fake). my advice, axe out the scene if it requires it.)

another thing you could do, make it a TINY fire, mostly fast burning brush, and mix in a LOT of dirt. this will cause a HUGE amount of smoke, and you CAN NOT breath it in for long. so keep your windows open. test to see how much dirt you will need to keep the fire at a safe level and smokey enough for people to know that there is a fire in the film.

cons of this.

your camera needs a clear shot if you want it too look right, that's why most high scale movies, record smoke effects in front of a green screen and plug them in using video editing along with some CGI.

the only other thing i could suggest is...... throw a lil bit of burnable material that can easily be put out at the very bottom of the trashcan and hope for dear life nothing goes wrong....

that and don't even use the scene.

WHAT I WOULD DO.

go outside and film it in front of a green screen. along with all the cast and crew, make it easier by only doing upper torso, if just doing the trashcan alone is not a option.


when filming, you have to be very aware on how you plan to achieve your effects.on major films, the effects team and the lighting team and the cameramen work EXTREMELY close together.


hope this helped some how.

and remember, nothing beats the real thing. but, the real thing has the possibility of costing you a lot of money.....
Click to expand...

Thanks a boonches! I like that green screen idea, particularly the part where I don't have to start a large fire in my kitchen...
 
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TheBuck said:
What kind of trash can is going to be? I recommended metal of some sort. Also this can be done by you, all you need to do is be careful. Make sure you have a WORKING fire extinguisher near by (as in right next to you), make sure that the fire will not be near any flammable objects like curtains or booze. I would also have a first aid kit handy just in case someone does get a light burn.
Click to expand...

I gotta say this is an irresponsible post. Nothing against you personally
and not meant to disrespect you as a person or a filmmaker, but
suggesting this is something that can be done even remotely safely is
foolish. Even with a working fire extinguisher near by, no flammable
objects near by and a first aid kit handy a fire in a trash can is extremely
dangerous. Most people don't have experience using a fire extinguisher
- sure, everyone understands the general principle of its use, but few
people have actually used one on a fire.

You don't mention what is burning in the can, or what type of fire
extinguisher should be standing by. Those variables could create quite
a hazard. You have no idea what the kitchen is like, what materials
the walls and cabinets are made of or how high the ceiling is. Those
variables make it very different than a fireplace.

Please everyone; I'm a licensed pyrotech, I do this as part of my living,
I know and have seen the terrible toll just one, little mistake can take
when using fire. Even in what seems to be a careful, responsible way.

Don't do it.
 
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directorik said:
I gotta say this is an irresponsible post. Nothing against you personally
and not meant to disrespect you as a person or a filmmaker, but
suggesting this is something that can be done even remotely safely is
foolish. Even with a working fire extinguisher near by, no flammable
objects near by and a first aid kit handy a fire in a trash can is extremely
dangerous. Most people don't have experience using a fire extinguisher
- sure, everyone understands the general principle of its use, but few
people have actually used one on a fire.

You don't mention what is burning in the can, or what type of fire
extinguisher should be standing by. Those variables could create quite
a hazard. You have no idea what the kitchen is like, what materials
the walls and cabinets are made of or how high the ceiling is. Those
variables make it very different than a fireplace.

Please everyone; I'm a licensed pyrotech, I do this as part of my living,
I know and have seen the terrible toll just one, little mistake can take
when using fire. Even in what seems to be a careful, responsible way.

Don't do it.
Click to expand...

I'm not meaning to be prudent or anything, and i TOTALLY agree that he shouldn't do it inside, but he is a film maker, and he isn't looking for a don't do it... he would do it no matter what we say probably. so the least we can do is give some advice on how to do it effectively. and if he treats it as a very risky thing to do, and takes all the proper fire precautions , records it outside etc etc, i don't see this as being something he can't do.

and as for

just one, little mistake can take
when using fire. Even in what seems to be a careful, responsible way.
Click to expand...

that is a fact i believe we all can agree on.

i say "axe it if you can" but if he refuses, at least give him a few options that are better then just setting a bucket on fire in his house.
 
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3 layers in post:
The "Plate" which is the kitchen
The Fire Element which you can get from http://www.detonationfilms.com
The green screened Garbage can (if using one that you can see through - other wise you just need 2 layers).

No fire (coming from an unlicensed stage pyro with a christian metal band in the 80's - that was a bad idea, but the ones that burned the clubs down weren't my shows).

Although I'd love to argue that old filmmakers used to throw themselves off cars and construction workers used to build hi-rises without safety harnesses, we've learned to be safer in the recent past and that is a good thing!
 
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Hire a pyrotechnician, or scrap the shot.

It's probably unlikely you'll be happy with a visual effect, fire is difficult to fake in post.. it can be done, but to make it look right is a pain. Though if you can't afford a licensed pyrotech and can't figure a way to have the film work without the shot it's worth attempting the vfx route..

The last thing you want is to wind up like this idiot, or worse.

Even the guys who have the professional training make mistakes occassionally, but to attempt something like this without one of them is about as smart as putting your ear to the pavement while someone drives a dump truck over your head -- don't do that either.
 
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