best new camera for low budget production?

I have been concentrating on writing for the past few years, putting heart and soul into the story (plot points, pace, etc.), dialogue (making it real and advance story) and character (arcs and unique qualities that grab and lock-in viewers). Several members of indietalk have read samples of my work -- the point is that my past film(s) 'major' weakness' has been the story and (video/film) format. I have the 'story' part covered now with many new scripts ready for self production (low budget).

I have tried to predict the future in film/video equipment. I invested a lot of money twelve/fourteen years ago in Sony DVcam (high end) but if buying new 'format' cameras in 2010, do not want to find myself with obsolete equipment twelve years from now.

I thought I would throw this out there and try to get as many responses as possible.

After doing a lot of home work and playing with various cameras, I think that my best direction is a camera like the Sony PMW-EX3 XDCAM EX HD Camcorder(s). I prefer working with three cameras when in production so small is a plus. Tapeless could also be the future -- less time downloading footage and worrying about dropouts, faulty tape and lost tapes. I like to have control of image so a lot of manual controls is a must.

I had work three years ago at the AFM out west. I was told that with very few exceptions, there is no market for sales (distribution) unless production is on a quality, high-definition format. I would be interested in comments from other IndieTalk members. I do not place many threads here. But your suggestions and opinions are very important. Thank you.
 
I have tried to predict the future in film/video equipment. I invested a lot of money twelve/fourteen years ago in Sony DVcam (high end) but if buying new 'format' cameras in 2010, do not want to find myself with obsolete equipment twelve years from now.
Well, technology in moving so fast these days, that you WILL finde yourself with obsolete equipment twelve years from now. No matter what you buy now, it'll be very old stuff even 5 years from now.

However, there are some great cameras out there right now that shoot high quality pictures that will certainly not look too bad a few years from now. The new Sony Cams look good.
You could also take a look at what RED ist doing, especially with the new 5k Epic and Scarlet cameras coming out next year. Their technology is one of the most futureproof stuff since they have such high resolution and record in RAW with pretty high dynamic rage.
 
I have tried to predict the future in film/video equipment. I invested a lot of money twelve/fourteen years ago in Sony DVcam (high end) but if buying new 'format' cameras in 2010, do not want to find myself with obsolete equipment twelve years from now.
I think this is an unrealistic expectation.

The cell phone you bought 12 years ago is obsolete today.
The computer you bought 12 years ago is obsolete today.
The chances are the car you bought 12 years ago isn’t the one
you’re driving today.
I can't imagine a camera format that's hot today will still be
viable in 2022.

I'm a professional camera operator/owner and I have to buy
a new camera every four years or so.

The PMW-EX3 will be just as obsolete in 2022 as your Sony DVcam is
today. That said, it’s a fine camera. How about checking out the
JVC HN-100? I just used it as my second camera on an Emmy Award
winning reality show. Small, with all the features you need and
excellent picture quality.


I had work three years ago at the AFM out west. I was told that with very few exceptions, there is no market for sales (distribution) unless production is on a quality, high-definition format. I would be interested in comments from other IndieTalk members. I do not place many threads here. But your suggestions and opinions are very important. Thank you.
I was at AFM three years ago. I was at AFM this year. People say
that. The also say there is no market for a production unless it
has name stars. They also say there is no market for camera POV
movies anymore. They also say horror is dead. They also say there
is no market for...

I think it would be great if “they” knew what they were talking
about and the camera used made the difference in making a
sale/distribution. That way every filmmaker could rent a top of
the line full HD camera and get that deal.

I’ll check my notes later, but I remember several movies from AFM
three years ago that were shot on SD cameras and got distribution
deals.
 
I really appreciate the above comments. Actually, I did check out the JVC GY-HD100U. Not a bad camera at all. But head to head I really liked the PMW-EX3 XDCAM better due to tapeless, size and weight. Thanks for the heads up, though. I am also impressed by what I heard about the RED/Scarlet. I have not had the opportunity to work with the camera but I know some who have. Cost is a lot higher then PMW-EX3 (I do like working with two or three cameras -- the Red price with quality lens -- far more than I can afford). I do understand that with the emergence of Quad television (4440 resolution) systems in about eight to ten years, that many cameras today will be out of high-tech fashion. But I think that BluRay will be the mode of distribution marketing for quite some time. The 1080i/p and 24p will be a stable standard for many years. With time, 'tape is dead' argument seems to be valid. Anyone else have other camera suggestions?

I am not correcting you, Directorik, just clarifying. I was not at the AFM, the word I got from my rep who was at the AFM (and handled about 20 productions) was that it was very hard and near impossible to market Non High-Definition video for distribution. That it would get harder with every year. Yes. There were some productions sold. Her company sold several but the chances without name talent, high quality format or the big FX/WOW factor is diminished greatly. There is a lot more competition out there today, then ten or twenty years ago. And that is a good thing.

I am still learning (and having fun with the writing) but I am also looking to find a nitch in making another movie or two. Which is why I spent almost everyday over the past five years, concentrating on 'story' -- something I did NOT do in my rush to make my first few movies. In my next production, I want to have every possible 'plus' I can have within my low-budget, (want to continue using multi camera for the speed, ambience and choices it offers). But also looking for matching image with audio and story. Thank you for the camera suggestions. Are there any other ($6,500. to 7,500.00) cameras that you would recommend I check out?

Thank you for comments and suggestions.
 
It's true that the RED One costs quite a lot. However, prices for the upcoming RED Scarlets are well within your price rage.

Would renting be an alternative? I mean, you could rent a very good camera for quite some time until you are up to your 7000 bucks. Plus you'd always have the ability to rent the camera that's top of the line at the time your're shooting.
 
Thanks for the suggestion. Renting doesn't work for me very well. I plan to buy the first camera (whatever 'it' may be) in early 2010. To start shooting archive footage and become completely familiar with the camera AQAP (Q = quickly). I will be shooting footage for sample keying and casting early and often, not on any 'set' production schedule. Having a camera outside of schedule has many pluses, especially shooting low-budget with weather and location access availability. Casting has more freedom with their unset schedules (due to other 'more' paying gigs or 9 to 5 lives). Also able to do some 'last minute' and unplanned event work to cover some expenses and right-offs. Rentals do add up, @ $350.00 + (with all the extras per specific camera -- and insurance -- I already own lighting and audio, editing and many extras already), after 20 days you have spent well over $7,000.00 with nothing to show. I have several projects completed on paper I would like to shoot, edit and get out there on the market in 2010/2011. Look me up (my name really is don patterson) and check out my sites to see what kind of 'stuff' I do -- I really try to push the envelope while shooting from the hip. Three cameras allow me to shoot quickly from large chunks of written scenes. Also in case of camera problems, always have back-ups and never feel like wasted time and talent. Also I take very good care of my equipment and know where it has been.

Scarlet -- have not seen one, only read about. Know people that have worked with Red -- a complete Red Camera (with quality lens, etc.) can set you back $29,000.00 +? Just trying to get biggest bang for the few bucks available -- I don't have any rich relatives so I have to budget wisely and there are no guarantees in life...

Know of any other cams out there in my price range? I am very hesitant to do anything with the P2 card cameras... but working in the HQ setting on the EX3 -- has a pretty high end image.
 
Renting is always a good option.

Keep in mind, spending money on a good lighting kit will last you far longer than a camera will. Not to mention, that lighting kit will probably be used a heck of a lot more too.

Often times, people will spend a ton of money on a camera, and it sits on the shelf until you are filming...then you are done filming and it goes back up on the shelf.

If you want to get a camera and rent yourself (or your equipment out) that seems like a good idea...but in the end you won't be used very often. More often than not, if someone wants a great camera, they would rather rent it from you, and have their own guy shoot it. Not many indie companies can afford to rent a camera and a shooter to go with it...they'll take one or the other...but paying for both might not be an option.

Basically what I'm saying is renting yourself our your equipment out isn't as easy as it sounds.

So then what do you do to make your money back? I don't know...I wouldn't buy a camera if you're looking to make your money back...it's not like getting a PHD.

I just find--and I've been told--that the big badass camera you purchase is going to spend the majority of time on the shelf...keep that in mind.

But as I said previously...getting a good lighting kit is more likely to be used (and rented from you).

My two cents. Thanks.
 
The scarlet isnt out. And most likely wont be for a while (they are revamping it, changing it).

Red will set you back about $35k-$65k depending on the extras and lenses you get.

The EX3 is a great camera. And dont be afraid of P2 or media cards, they are all easy enough to learn and manage.
 
Just got a 7D, which I love. Great quality image for relatively little money. Good for narrative productions. NOT RECOMMENDED for event photography, however.

But for distributable narrative films on a low budget, a viable option.

Btw, I sold an SD feature last spring shot on the DVX100a for national DTV distribution.
 
Thanks to all that responded, I appreciate your taking time with suggestions.

M1chae1, currently I have three DVcams. Had them for quite some time. They really don't sit on a shelf much. Use them constantly. Almost everywhere I go I have one of those cameras (usually my DSR 150 -- the 300 and 500 are bit intimidating on the street) in my car. I am constantly asked to shoot stuff for others and it can add up the nickel and dimes (figure of speech). Sorry, I did not explain myself well above, must of misunderstood what I was saying, I would never rent out any of my equipment. Never. But I do get asked to shoot a lot for others. Thom98 suggested renting equipment instead of buying. Not big on that, always like to have a camera in hand -- never can tell when you might hit that special footage. And by owning, when I sell my DSR 500 soon -- the camera will break even on my piggy bank, (though for a fraction what I paid for it).

CDCosta, looked at the P2 cameras, and one can put a lot more footage on the Sony media cards on their HQ setting then one can put on the P2 cards. The P2 cards are a lot more money too. Not afraid of the Panasonic cameras at all. Just looking at cost, weight, over all benefits and features. Yes they both give great images and have quality audio capabilities. Most think that Sony will win this media format war (SxS PRO Memory Card VS. P2) unlike in 1980 with the VHS VS Beta war. The cheapest I have seen a RED (used like new) was $29,000.00. Way over my budget to buy even when used.

Beeblebrox, what is a 7D (Canon EOS 7D)? Great that you sold an SD feature. I'm sure many will continue to do so, I was just repeating what I was told about in regards to response at AFM three years ago.

I'm just kind of trying to decide where I want to go in the next year with new equipment. Planning on selling all my current cameras ASAP and planning for 2010 and beyond. Suggestions please? Thanks again to all who responded.
 
Thought you were just scared of the format of P2 :D

Sonys memory is indeed cheaper, and will most likely win for that.

The Canon 7D is a DSLR still camera that shoots 1080p 24p. It gives a pretty 'stylized' looking picture which people love and hate. It's relitively cheap for it's image output, but harder to work with since it's designed for Still images, and gives a different image.
 
Ya, lot's of people are talking about maybe getting the 7D...

I just think due to its size and its nature, it will be more cumbersome than it's worth. Keep in mind, you might not want to use the stock lens--which means you'll be putting money into the camera package anyway if you plan to add to your lens package.

Also, the D7 isn't great for fast movement correct? Now I understand not all movies will have fast movements...but a lot might. What about chase scenes? Fight scenes? Even something as simple as a slap to the face...all of these movements will create a weird artifacting at the edge of the movement object, correct? I wouldn't want to have to shoot around that, or rewrite my actions if it was more sensitive than I first imagined.

You also have to check exposure via the LCD screen...which is very high resolution, but is small, and doesn't show much actual light information.

It's definitely nice to capture footage gorilla style...but if you're using lights and a boom, how are you planning on hiding them? Might as well get a permit and not sweat it.

Heck I don't know.
 
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Actually, I did check out the JVC GY-HD100U. Not a bad camera at all. But head to head I really liked the PMW-EX3 XDCAM better due to tapeless, size and weight.
Then you should check out the camera I suggested; the JVC HM-100.
The HD100 released in 2005 is obsolete now. The HM100 records to
inexpensive SDHC cards in native Quicktime format. But since you're
in the market for three $8,000 cameras check out the JVC HM-700.

Regardless, either the HM700 or the EX3 are excellent cameras. I prefer
the JVC after shooting with both, but you'll be fine buying three EX3's.
Both will be obsolete twelve years from now and you'll need to upgrade.
I suspect both Sony and JVC will introduce better models by the end of
2010.
 
Also, the D7 isn't great for fast movement correct? Now I understand not all movies will have fast movements...but a lot might. What about chase scenes? Fight scenes? Even something as simple as a slap to the face...all of these movements will create a weird artifacting at the edge of the movement object, correct?

No, none of that is true. What you're probably thinking of is the so-called jellocam distortion that comes from rolling shutters. But this is an artifact of all CMOS cameras, including the Red. It's mostly noticeable on fast pans and quick vertical movements and affects vertical shapes like building edges and light poles. It causes a slight "lean" to those objects in the shot.

But keep in mind that the film District 9 was shot with a CMOS chip (as is everything you've seen shot on the Red), and that film was almost entirely handheld.
 
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