i have a Canon HDV 1080i, so it's not a proffessional camera but i still want to buy a mic for it..are there any suggestions you guys could give to me on what to buy im really green with this stuff but i made this film and the sound is really bad..you can click this link for a example.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_H-oFtwpG0 so i need help what should i buy and where?
a good mic
- Thread starter gar19rett
- Start date
The Canon HDV 1080i has two (2) XLR audio inputs and, according to the literature, an option for two (2) more XLR audio inputs.
There have been lots of discussions about mics so try the search function.
To hit the high points...
Shotgun mics:
Popular professional mics
Schoeps CMIT5U - $2,200
Sennheiser MKH-416 - $1,200
Popular intermediate mics
Rode NTG-3 - $700
Sanken CS1 - $850
Sennheiser ME66/K6 - $400 (Not that popular since digital recording but was huge when audio was recorded to analog tape)
Popular budget mics
Audio-Technica AT897 - $240
Audio-Technica AT875 - $200
Rode NTG-2 - $270
For a few more $$$ most of them are available with the basic necessities - a shockmount, softie and boompole.
Cardioid Condensers:
Popular professional mics
Sennheiser MKH 30 - $1,250
Sennheiser MKH 40 - $1,200
Sennheiser MKH 50 - $1,200
Popular intermediate mics
Audio-Technica AT4053b - $650
Audio-Technica AT4051b - $600
Popular budget mics
Rode NT55 - $370
Audio-Technica AT4053a - $330
Shotguns are used outdoors, cardioid (preferably hypercardioid) condensers are used indoors. We'll leave lavs alone for now.
Just as (or more) important is the technique with which the mic is used. Just putting it in the vicinity of the talent is not enough. Correct booming technique will be the difference between a good recording and garbage. Many will tell you that you can use a shotgun indoors, and they are completely correct; but you'd better have awesome technique and a properly prepared set or you will get that "roomy" "echoey" sound.
The reasons that professional production sound mixers and boom-ops (and the occasional audio wrangler) get paid so well is that they have perfected the techniques and know how to select the proper mic for the given situation. Most of these folks are steady working teams that own their own equipment, often costing tens of thousands; they are quite often responsible for set comms as well.
Heres' what a pro sound cart looks like:
So figure out your budget. You may want to add a mixer as well...
The audio on your clip sounds like a mic mounted on the camera or a shotgun used indoors at some distance from the talent.
You may want to check out my blogs on production sound here at IndieTalk.
There have been lots of discussions about mics so try the search function.
To hit the high points...
Shotgun mics:
Popular professional mics
Schoeps CMIT5U - $2,200
Sennheiser MKH-416 - $1,200
Popular intermediate mics
Rode NTG-3 - $700
Sanken CS1 - $850
Sennheiser ME66/K6 - $400 (Not that popular since digital recording but was huge when audio was recorded to analog tape)
Popular budget mics
Audio-Technica AT897 - $240
Audio-Technica AT875 - $200
Rode NTG-2 - $270
For a few more $$$ most of them are available with the basic necessities - a shockmount, softie and boompole.
Cardioid Condensers:
Popular professional mics
Sennheiser MKH 30 - $1,250
Sennheiser MKH 40 - $1,200
Sennheiser MKH 50 - $1,200
Popular intermediate mics
Audio-Technica AT4053b - $650
Audio-Technica AT4051b - $600
Popular budget mics
Rode NT55 - $370
Audio-Technica AT4053a - $330
Shotguns are used outdoors, cardioid (preferably hypercardioid) condensers are used indoors. We'll leave lavs alone for now.
Just as (or more) important is the technique with which the mic is used. Just putting it in the vicinity of the talent is not enough. Correct booming technique will be the difference between a good recording and garbage. Many will tell you that you can use a shotgun indoors, and they are completely correct; but you'd better have awesome technique and a properly prepared set or you will get that "roomy" "echoey" sound.
The reasons that professional production sound mixers and boom-ops (and the occasional audio wrangler) get paid so well is that they have perfected the techniques and know how to select the proper mic for the given situation. Most of these folks are steady working teams that own their own equipment, often costing tens of thousands; they are quite often responsible for set comms as well.
Heres' what a pro sound cart looks like:
So figure out your budget. You may want to add a mixer as well...
The audio on your clip sounds like a mic mounted on the camera or a shotgun used indoors at some distance from the talent.
You may want to check out my blogs on production sound here at IndieTalk.
The NTG-3 hasn't made it into the mic collections of too many pros yet. One of the qualifications for "pro" is years of faultless service, and the NTG-3 hasn't been around long enough to qualify, although it is building a very nice rep as a quality piece of gear at a modest price.
XLR is a type of cable connector. Three-pin XLR connectors are used primarily for professional audio applications. You have XLR inputs on your camera. My personal preference is Pro Co, but there are many other brands out there. My list of mics that use XLR connectors is in my above post
I'm curious why you suggest that the sennheiser ME67,66 is not as applicable than it was when shooting analog?
The ME66/67 is a bit thin sounding for my taste when used with digital recorders. Analog tape added some natural tape compression to the sound of the ME66/67 and so was more pleasing in that circumstance.
These are all my own personal opinions, and for anyone who doesn't read my posts regularly, I always suggest taking opinions - even mine - with a grain of salt; or to put is more crudely - "Opinions are like a$$holes; everybody has one and they all stink!" Read the reviews, read the forums, and better yet, try the gear and form your own opinion. Everyone has different tastes. I started my career in audio when analog tape was the only option and have been through the "digital revolution" which has colored my opinions to a great degree. Those who are younger than I have a different perspective than I do, or, from my point of view as an old fart, don't know any better.
These are all my own personal opinions, and for anyone who doesn't read my posts regularly, I always suggest taking opinions - even mine - with a grain of salt; or to put is more crudely - "Opinions are like a$$holes; everybody has one and they all stink!" Read the reviews, read the forums, and better yet, try the gear and form your own opinion. Everyone has different tastes. I started my career in audio when analog tape was the only option and have been through the "digital revolution" which has colored my opinions to a great degree. Those who are younger than I have a different perspective than I do, or, from my point of view as an old fart, don't know any better.
I understand what you are saying (as a fellow "old fart"). I am looking at buying my first long shotgun and was really leaning toward the ME67 for it's industry acceptance, as well as it's hot output since I'll be choosing a lower-end mixer would like to keep self-noise as low as possible.
My background is sound, but primarily live sound for theatrical productions and some live music mixing. I also operate a small project studio to experiment. I am an EE so also know sound from an electrical, signal, and physics perspective. But the truth is, specs don't tell it all, and there's nothing like hearing from others using the gear to help giude me in my purchasing decisions. I have just begun purchasing field equipment, starting with the Zoom H2 (which, I know, has noise external mic preamps). It does really well for capturing nature sounds, and ambience, but is not nearly directional enough to isolate voices on location. The next two items on my list are a long shotgun, and mixer, using the zoom's line inputs as my recorder. I've budgeted $800 for these two pieces.
Are there any long shotguns you like in the $300-500 price range?
My background is sound, but primarily live sound for theatrical productions and some live music mixing. I also operate a small project studio to experiment. I am an EE so also know sound from an electrical, signal, and physics perspective. But the truth is, specs don't tell it all, and there's nothing like hearing from others using the gear to help giude me in my purchasing decisions. I have just begun purchasing field equipment, starting with the Zoom H2 (which, I know, has noise external mic preamps). It does really well for capturing nature sounds, and ambience, but is not nearly directional enough to isolate voices on location. The next two items on my list are a long shotgun, and mixer, using the zoom's line inputs as my recorder. I've budgeted $800 for these two pieces.
Are there any long shotguns you like in the $300-500 price range?
The ME66/67 is a bit thin sounding for my taste when used with digital recorders. Analog tape added some natural tape compression to the sound of the ME66/67 and so was more pleasing in that circumstance.
These are all my own personal opinions, and for anyone who doesn't read my posts regularly, I always suggest taking opinions - even mine - with a grain of salt; or to put is more crudely - "Opinions are like a$$holes; everybody has one and they all stink!" Read the reviews, read the forums, and better yet, try the gear and form your own opinion. Everyone has different tastes. I started my career in audio when analog tape was the only option and have been through the "digital revolution" which has colored my opinions to a great degree. Those who are younger than I have a different perspective than I do, or, from my point of view as an old fart, don't know any better.
Why do you need a long shotgun? A short shotgun (my list is above) will be fine for 95% of narrative and documentary filmmaking.
Specifically to provide a high level off-axis rejection. A few reviews I've read on the ME67 commented on it's highly narrow pattern, where as a the Rode was more like using a cardiod.
That's why I was looking at the ME66 and ME67 combo. The 67 would give me a very tight pattern for off-axis rejection, the the 66 would give me a broader, more cardiod type pattern. I also have several small diaphram cardiod condensors from my studio that I could use for broader pattern, although none of them I would consider a super-cardiod.
If I'm hearing you correctly, I should not be so concerned with off-axis rejection?
That's why I was looking at the ME66 and ME67 combo. The 67 would give me a very tight pattern for off-axis rejection, the the 66 would give me a broader, more cardiod type pattern. I also have several small diaphram cardiod condensors from my studio that I could use for broader pattern, although none of them I would consider a super-cardiod.
If I'm hearing you correctly, I should not be so concerned with off-axis rejection?
FWIW, my current feature used the Senny M66 (one that's about 25 years old!) straight into my Canon A1 and, while I'm sure my ear is nowhere near as keen as Alcove's, I'm pretty happy with what I got. 
It's perhaps prudent to reiterate - particularly for beginners - that the quality of the mic itself is secondary to it's placement. You can buy a $1200 mic and mount it on your camera, but you're much better off buying a $250 mic and spending the rest on a good boom op, IMHO.
It's perhaps prudent to reiterate - particularly for beginners - that the quality of the mic itself is secondary to it's placement. You can buy a $1200 mic and mount it on your camera, but you're much better off buying a $250 mic and spending the rest on a good boom op, IMHO.
Last edited:
Price is not really my motivator here.
Can you tell me the context of the shot you made with the 66 on your camera? What was the surrounding noise floor like? Was there sound sources behind the actor and how bad did that sound contaminate the audio track?
Indeed the mic will be boom poled.
My initial question was regarding the senn 66, and understand it's tone may be a little thin for some. This led to a discussion of my need for a long shotgun.
My question now is regarding off-axis rejection. Boom-poled or not, if the pick-up pattern of the mic is too wide for the shot, then off-axis sound will enter, if I understand the behavior of these mics.
Isn't it possible to have great technique and still be using the wrong mic for the job. I find this often in live theatre applications, and if the mic is wrong for the job, then there's not a whole lot that can be done with technique to correct it.
Can you tell me the context of the shot you made with the 66 on your camera? What was the surrounding noise floor like? Was there sound sources behind the actor and how bad did that sound contaminate the audio track?
Indeed the mic will be boom poled.
My initial question was regarding the senn 66, and understand it's tone may be a little thin for some. This led to a discussion of my need for a long shotgun.
My question now is regarding off-axis rejection. Boom-poled or not, if the pick-up pattern of the mic is too wide for the shot, then off-axis sound will enter, if I understand the behavior of these mics.
Isn't it possible to have great technique and still be using the wrong mic for the job. I find this often in live theatre applications, and if the mic is wrong for the job, then there's not a whole lot that can be done with technique to correct it.
FWIW, my current feature used the Senny M66 (one that's about 25 years old!) straight into my Canon A1 and, while I'm sure my ear is nowhere near as keen as Alcove's, I'm pretty happy with what I got.
It's perhaps prudent to reiterate - particularly for beginners - that the quality of the mic itself is secondary to it's placement. You can buy a $1200 mic and mount it on your camera, but you're much better off buying a $250 mic and spending the rest on a good boom op, IMHO.
My project was a feature, so there were a thousand different contexts: interiors, exteriors, noisy environments, quiet environments, live spaces and dead spaces...you name it! We used the M66 for 95% of the movie (I also used a Senny wireless lav on a couple of occasions). Most often, we employed the traditional mic-above-the-talent setup to minimize background noise. Occasionally, when that was not possible or practical, we mounted the mic on a pistol grip or came up from below, but those occasions were extremely rare.
While the M66 did not entirely eliminate bg noise, there was a definite difference in s/n ratio depending on the orientation. We just moved the boom op around until we found a compromise between staying clear of frame and finding the optimum sweet spot.
We used the M66 for 95% of the movie (I also used a Senny wireless lav on a couple of occasions). Most often, we employed the traditional mic-above-the-talent setup to minimize background noise. Occasionally, when that was not possible or practical, we mounted the mic on a pistol grip or came up from below, but those occasions were extremely rare.While the M66 did not entirely eliminate bg noise, there was a definite difference in s/n ratio depending on the orientation. We just moved the boom op around until we found a compromise between staying clear of frame and finding the optimum sweet spot.
Wonderful, and thanks for the synapsis.
My project was a feature, so there were a thousand different contexts: interiors, exteriors, noisy environments, quiet environments, live spaces and dead spaces...you name it!
While the M66 did not entirely eliminate bg noise, there was a definite difference in s/n ratio depending on the orientation. We just moved the boom op around until we found a compromise between staying clear of frame and finding the optimum sweet spot.