View Full Version : Canon EOS 5D Mark II


squiLL
04-06-2009, 12:44 PM
Anyone ever shoot a film on this camera? It's 1080P, and I heard its very versatile for a photography camera. Just wondering because I am thinking about shooting my upcoming film on one. The quality looks gorgeous, and the fact that it fits any EF lens is amazing.

A sample video is found here.

http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2326

Scoopicman
04-06-2009, 05:20 PM
I agree. The footage I've seen is fantastic! The low light capability is a huge benefit, too. I've heard some people mention "skew", but that is the nature of rolling shutter cameras, which seems more prevalent on the Nikon D90. I would use the Canon in a heartbeat. If I didn't already have an HD camera, this would be my next purchase.

letzfly777
07-17-2009, 03:01 PM
I shoot with the camera and its epic. So damn high quality have fun trying to play it in raw without converting it :( haha. But yes epic camera for the price.

letzfly777
07-17-2009, 03:02 PM
There are films also out there that are 10 times better looking than that. Just look up Vimeos canon 5d mk II group and you will know what im talking about.

KimHuston
07-17-2009, 10:33 PM
I'm going to get one Sunday. I've been talking back and forth with a direct who just shot a feature with it. He loves it and the footage looks great. They used it for part of the new Harry Potter movie and the upcoming Iron Man. Hollywood is grabbing onto it.

indietalk
07-17-2009, 10:41 PM
All I see is a very sharp video-looking highly color corrected (lots of oranges, blues) clip.

Sorry, not impressed (for filmmaking).

:)

letzfly777
07-18-2009, 01:38 AM
oh if you only knew my friend haha.

letzfly777
07-18-2009, 01:38 AM
check out 5d MK ii "vimeo group". Just a laundry list of EPIC videos.

KimHuston
07-18-2009, 01:13 PM
All using natural light: http://vimeo.com/4704533

It's also only about $3000 with a lens, and works with 35mm lenses without an adapter, I believe.

indietalk
07-18-2009, 05:38 PM
Thanks for the link. Seems like extreme shallow depth of field is in vogue these days (with those convinced it makes it look like film). I actually found that annoying while watching that.

KimHuston
07-19-2009, 02:01 AM
Well its over used in these because they're showing off the camera.

Beeblebrox
12-08-2009, 02:45 AM
I have a 7D and I couldn't be happier. It replaces my workhorse DVX100a for narrative filmmaking. Just shot a short film this weekend that I hope to get online by early next week.

CDCosta
12-08-2009, 02:01 PM
i agree with IT. i dont personally like the 5D. sharp, very shallow dof, saturated footage

Beeblebrox
12-08-2009, 11:33 PM
i agree with IT. i dont personally like the 5D. sharp, very shallow dof, saturated footage

None of those would be the camera itself, but rather the choices made by the shooter.

indietalk
12-09-2009, 11:30 AM
None of those would be the camera itself, but rather the choices made by the shooter.
I'd like to see some real, raw, gritty footage... not the eye-candy that looks like a postcard. I hear ya, but I haven't seen anything impressive. These are DSLRs, and the examples are shallow DOF super-enhanced Photoshop looking images made for postcards. Maybe they are being shot by photographers, and not cinematographers? Or is it the camera, being it's DSLR? Show me some real stuff! Looking forward to your footage. :)

David.rhsc
12-09-2009, 02:05 PM
Thanks for the link. Seems like extreme shallow depth of field is in vogue these days (with those convinced it makes it look like film). I actually found that annoying while watching that.

I wonder how long that is going to last too. I miss some really good deep focus photography, haven't seen any 5d footage that utilizes that technique.

The saturation and sharpness bother me less, but I wonder how much latitude there is in the camera to control those two items.

CDCosta
12-09-2009, 03:04 PM
I wonder how long that is going to last too. I miss some really good deep focus photography, haven't seen any 5d footage that utilizes that technique.

The saturation and sharpness bother me less, but I wonder how much latitude there is in the camera to control those two items.

I also wonder. Not sure why such shallow DOF is desired throughout a film.

I just don't really enjoy the picture these DSLRs shoot, but i have seen some good things come from them.

Beeblebrox
12-09-2009, 05:06 PM
The saturation and sharpness bother me less, but I wonder how much latitude there is in the camera to control those two items.

There are settings that allow you to shoot essentially a flat curve for more details in shadows and highlights. The general exposure range for the camera is around 8 stops.

Also, you can turn the sharpness completely down and adjust the saturation (which you have to do when you flatten the curves).

As for the DOF, the 7D is a 35mm size chip and the 5D is FF35. The camera ALLOWS shallow DOF, but is more or less the same focus as 35mm film. The rest is up to the DP to go shallow or deep depending on lenses and other factors.

FWIW, I agree that many 5D shooters are going too shallow on their test footage. The option for selective focus is nice, but it's not everything.

David.rhsc
12-09-2009, 10:12 PM
As for the DOF, the 7D is a 35mm size chip and the 5D is FF35. The camera ALLOWS shallow DOF, but is more or less the same focus as 35mm film. The rest is up to the DP to go shallow or deep depending on lenses and other factors.

FWIW, I agree that many 5D shooters are going too shallow on their test footage. The option for selective focus is nice, but it's not everything.

Agreed.

I don't know if too shallow is the term I would use, but I get what you mean. A lot of the footage I have seen has been demonstrative of the low-light capabilities of the 5Dm2 - which will have a great deal to do with the resultant DoF. But I think it is more a current, trendy stylistic choice that was unleashed when lens adapters started becoming more commonplace on HD cameras. Prior to those it was pretty difficult to get shallow fields on video cameras, and now that it can be done everyone is doing it without really thinking about it from a standpoint of expression.

The best shooters will know when to get shallow and when to go deep - in service of the story. Folks will back around to this using these cameras - it's just excitement over the option of going super shallow that has people itching to use it.

It reminds me of being in film school and discovering single-frame shooting with the bolex. I made up reasons to use that feature because it was technically interesting to me, never really helped the stories much, although I did get a cool set of titles that way once.

kgasser2
12-20-2009, 02:40 PM
http://vimeo.com/4704533

this is not my video

according to the description, this is video from the 5dmk2 without lighting or color grading. RAW DOGGIN IT]]




edit: aaaaand i just realized this clip has already been posted here.... don't mind me

EMBARASSIIINNGGG

David.rhsc
12-21-2009, 01:06 PM
This is from a 7D - while it does a fair amount of shallow DoF shooting, there are some nice deeper focus shots as well. It looks like there was some level of grading done, but other than that one of the nicer, more balanced DSLR pieces I've seen. There are definitely rolling shutter artifacts in several of the more motion laden shots though.

Not my film, just posting it as I've been looking for something shot with DSLR that isn't 100% extreme shallow DoF.

http://vimeo.com/groups/28609/videos/6501875

hltibbs
12-27-2009, 11:57 AM
You need to check out "A Three Act Play (http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2327)." I think it says it all.

photographer
01-03-2010, 07:47 PM
More and more interested using this camera for filming.

It's silly and too jerky to hold just the camera for moving, panning without tripod. What is the best system to support the camera so it can be handled more as a regular video camera ?

something like this:

http://digitalfilms.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/blg_canon5d_11.jpg?w=480&h=320

Beeblebrox
01-03-2010, 11:25 PM
What is the best system to support the camera so it can be handled more as a regular video camera ?

I've done fine with just a regular shoulder mount.

M1chae1
01-04-2010, 04:52 PM
More and more interested using this camera for filming.

It's silly and too jerky to hold just the camera for moving, panning without tripod. What is the best system to support the camera so it can be handled more as a regular video camera ?

something like this:

http://digitalfilms.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/blg_canon5d_11.jpg?w=480&h=320

Ya, now that we're saving money on a camera that shoots film-look, let's now add a few thousand dollars more for a mount...I mean...it's only fair right? We can't have our cake and eat it too, you know!

I think the footage looks great from these cameras. I think you could get gritty with it as well. It's up to the DP and/or Camera Op. I'd be curious to see some in-your-face gritty films shot on this--by someone that knows what they are doing.

The wedding stuff didn't do much for me.

Beeblebrox
01-04-2010, 05:23 PM
I think the footage looks great from these cameras. I think you could get gritty with it as well. It's up to the DP and/or Camera Op. I'd be curious to see some in-your-face gritty films shot on this--by someone that knows what they are doing.

The wedding stuff didn't do much for me.

Here's a short film I did last month, testing the camera out in a narrative production environment with lights, crew, etc.

http://vimeo.com/8145618

M1chae1
01-04-2010, 11:57 PM
Here's a short film I did last month, testing the camera out in a narrative production environment with lights, crew, etc.

http://vimeo.com/8145618

That's what I wanted to see. Nice job. Looked really good. Funny too.

Thanks for the link.

photographer
01-05-2010, 01:23 AM
Here's a short film I did last month, testing the camera out in a narrative production environment with lights, crew, etc.

http://vimeo.com/8145618


great project. could you recommend what film-accesories you are using ?

in particular:
tripod/head ?
lights ?
sound recording ?

any stabilizers for in-hand / panning filming ?

oh,
and recommendations for a good script-writing workflow ?
how do you proceed from an idea to concrete scenes ?
any SW that helps with this process ?

Beeblebrox
01-05-2010, 02:33 AM
in particular:
tripod/head ?

I have a Bogen tripod that's been thru 3 cameras already. Also, a Cobra Crane and skateboard dolly wheels attached to a 2x4' particle board.

lights ?

For this project, we mostly used our 1K Fresnel and a white bounce card.n We also have two 650 fresnels.

sound recording ?

AT835b shotgun mic to a Zoom H4N.

any stabilizers for in-hand / panning filming ?

A regular cheapy shoulder mount.

and recommendations for a good script-writing workflow ?
how do you proceed from an idea to concrete scenes ?
any SW that helps with this process ?

Final Draft is the only software I really recommend for screenwriting.

Beyond that, it's just writing the scenes, doing a breakdown, and prepping a shotlist and other prep work from there.

David Vasquez Jr.
01-05-2010, 06:33 AM
My brother shoots with one. he says it shoots awesome footage, but the audio's kinda shiddie.
He has to record audio on a separate device.

M1chae1
01-05-2010, 08:08 AM
My brother shoots with one. he says it shoots awesome footage, but the audio's kinda shiddie.
He has to record audio on a separate device.

Which to me is annoying. I always want the option to XLR right into the camera. But that may be just me.

Beeblebrox
01-05-2010, 11:13 AM
Which to me is annoying. I always want the option to XLR right into the camera. But that may be just me.

I always found tethering to the camera kind of a pain. The biggest (and only) advantage is not having to sync in post. But recording to the Zoom H4N is way better audio quality than I ever got recording to my DVX so it's well worth that extra step.

M1chae1
01-05-2010, 12:23 PM
I always found tethering to the camera kind of a pain. The biggest (and only) advantage is not having to sync in post. But recording to the Zoom H4N is way better audio quality than I ever got recording to my DVX so it's well worth that extra step.

A good boom op doesn't mind cord wrangling...and in complicated handhelds or moves, a dedicated cord wrangler can help out.

Not having to sync isn't the only benefit...another benefit is cost. You save a lot of money not needing external sound equipment, and/or hiring a guy that does it all.

Beeblebrox
01-05-2010, 01:41 PM
Not having to sync isn't the only benefit...another benefit is cost. You save a lot of money not needing external sound equipment, and/or hiring a guy that does it all.

The added cost is $300 for the Zoom H4N, which is amortized over the life of the product. In terms of film equipment expenses, that's nothing.

Otherwise, you still have the cost of the mic, boom, and boom op. None of that changes.

M1chae1
01-05-2010, 03:50 PM
The added cost is $300 for the Zoom H4N, which is amortized over the life of the product. In terms of film equipment expenses, that's nothing.

Otherwise, you still have the cost of the mic, boom, and boom op. None of that changes.

Well, all technicalities aside...let's just say having a boom op plug directly into the camera is going to save you some money. :)

Beeblebrox
01-05-2010, 04:03 PM
Well, all technicalities aside...let's just say having a boom op plug directly into the camera is going to save you some money. :)

How? The Zoom H4N can fit in your pocket, which means the boom op can monitor levels while booming. Otherwise, the camera op can do it. Either way, it's the exact same number of people.

I mean, do what you're comfortable with, but what you're saying simply isn't true. I've done it both ways and it didn't cost any more money.

David.rhsc
01-07-2010, 02:35 PM
Ya, now that we're saving money on a camera that shoots film-look, let's now add a few thousand dollars more for a mount...I mean...it's only fair right? We can't have our cake and eat it too, you know!.

Funny you mention that, there are iris rod mounts for DSLR that when fully laid out more than double the cost of a 5d mkII. And that is with a fairly lame follow focus like the Red Rock one. The numbers with a proper Chrozeil (sp?) are just nutty.

Basically if you go all accessory crazy, you're paying about the same as the buy-in on an HVX-200a new, or a used HVX package with goodies.

Here's a short film I did last month, testing the camera out in a narrative production environment with lights, crew, etc.

http://vimeo.com/8145618

Very nice. Timely story too.


RE: In-camera audio vs. external recorders.

If the external is in the budget I would go that way almost every time. Some cameras do a pretty good job of munging your audio signal by comparison to a dedicated recorder, and I'd imagine on a 7D or a 5D-II where you need a box between the xlr and the camera the problem might be exacerbated enough that an inexpensive recorder is a viable option.

The flip side is a more robust video camera may be a better audio recording device than a budget digital audio recorder. It just depends on the gear.

Sync in the world of digital NLE isn't that big of a deal, even without the benefit of locked time-code between the recorder and the camera. There's where it gets prohibitively expensive for the no-budget crowd. It is extra work in post, but not terribly hard especially on short pieces.

Bottom line though, if you can afford it, get an on-set recordist that can boom AND monitor levels. Even better, a dedicate boom op and a recordist. The difference is well worth it.

Beeblebrox
01-07-2010, 03:40 PM
The flip side is a more robust video camera may be a better audio recording device than a budget digital audio recorder. It just depends on the gear.

FWIW, having shot back-to-back shorts, one with the audio going directly into the HVX, and the other with the same audio gear going to a Zoom H4N, there's simply no comparison. The H4N was hands-down better, better quality and a better experience.

David.rhsc
01-07-2010, 05:25 PM
FWIW, having shot back-to-back shorts, one with the audio going directly into the HVX, and the other with the same audio gear going to a Zoom H4N, there's simply no comparison. The H4N was hands-down better, better quality and a better experience.

Good to know. I haven't had the chance to do a comparison with the HVX and never heard of the Zoom before. Nice little device.

M1chae1
01-08-2010, 08:11 AM
How? The Zoom H4N can fit in your pocket, which means the boom op can monitor levels while booming. Otherwise, the camera op can do it. Either way, it's the exact same number of people.

I mean, do what you're comfortable with, but what you're saying simply isn't true. I've done it both ways and it didn't cost any more money.

How can it not be true? You're buying more equipment. Nuff said.

Beeblebrox
01-08-2010, 03:42 PM
How can it not be true? You're buying more equipment. Nuff said.

You were talking about hiring people and equipment. There is zero difference between the number of people needed. And the difference in equipment cost would depend wildly on what equipment you're using in the first place. The 7D is thousands of dollars cheaper than the HVX and about $1K cheaper than the DVX. I could buy THREE Zoom H4Ns for that money.

Again, if it's a matter of preference, that's one thing. The idea that it saves money is simply not the case.

photographer
01-11-2010, 11:35 PM
I have a Bogen tripod that's been thru 3 cameras already. Also, a Cobra Crane and skateboard dolly wheels attached to a 2x4' particle board.



For this project, we mostly used our 1K Fresnel and a white bounce card.n We also have two 650 fresnels.



AT835b shotgun mic to a Zoom H4N.



A regular cheapy shoulder mount.



Final Draft is the only software I really recommend for screenwriting.

Beyond that, it's just writing the scenes, doing a breakdown, and prepping a shotlist and other prep work from there.


can you elaborate on: AT835b shotgun mic to a Zoom H4N ???
Is the AT835b shotgun plugged into 5D and the H4n is elsewhere in the room ?
How do you balance then the 2 audio tracks with the video ?

also, i found this was not aware of:
(http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&thread=29384141&page=2) (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&thread=29384141&page=2)

The sync problem isn't solved with a simple clap -- if only it were! It's much more complicated than that. The sync problem also isn't solved with a simple codec, say, like you get when you download an avi file and the sound is off, etc. It's much more expensive than that. The sync problem also isn't solved with a simple software solution like GoldWave etc (e.g., sync problems when someone took out a commercial from a TV rip). Nor is it simply caused by a processing delay or random errors that happen with the hardware. It's much more....well, you get the idea.
The problem is actually inherent in the way video works. Audio records in *real* time, but the video doesn't. It is off by about 3.59 seconds for every hour. The solution has to do with timecode drop frames, and you need good software (or digital audio equipment with timecode).
In the 5DII case, 30p is really 29.97frame/s. Your audio will be off and before too long it will be really annoying. That said, some people say that it only records 12 minutes (although the Canon site says 30min), so if you do a small clip people may not notice the sync problem between your external audio and the video.

is it easy to correct for this ? what is the workflow ?
i've FCS Pro 7 and Adobe CS4 suite with After Effects.


Interesting mic test on 5D mark 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc03RYIRkl8

oh, so is this one a STEREO mic ?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/534023-REG/Sennheiser_MKE_400_MKE_400_Compact_Video.html#revi ews

Beeblebrox
01-12-2010, 12:19 AM
can you elaborate on: AT835b shotgun mic to a Zoom H4N ???
Is the AT835b shotgun plugged into 5D and the H4n is elsewhere in the room ?
How do you balance then the 2 audio tracks with the video ?

The AT835b is wired directly to the H4N, which is recorded independently from the 7D. The sound is then synced in post.

also, i found this was not aware of:
(http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&thread=29384141&page=2) (http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&thread=29384141&page=2)
is it easy to correct for this ? what is the workflow ?
i've FCS Pro 7 and Adobe CS4 suite with After Effects.

In long and short takes, we never experienced anything remotely approaching a sync issue. We were recording 23.97 1080p.

photographer
01-13-2010, 10:01 PM
The AT835b is wired directly to the H4N, which is recorded independently from the 7D. The sound is then synced in post.

In long and short takes, we never experienced anything remotely approaching a sync issue. We were recording 23.97 1080p.

Glad to hear the sound issue is not really an issue in real world filming...

So the H4n is also mounted on the 5D while linked to the 5D? That way you get focused sound at disrtance and also ambient sound from the H4N ?
Which shoulder mount do you recommend ? please link...

The short film was then shot with 5D mk II and 7D ? Do you have identical setup with both cameras - meaning the shotgun mic with H4N ?

Really appreciate your advice on all, i've done very little filming, nothing required sound yet, so it's a bit intimidating how to get decent sound.

Beeblebrox
01-13-2010, 11:18 PM
So the H4n is also mounted on the 5D while linked to the 5D? That way you get focused sound at disrtance and also ambient sound from the H4N ?
Which shoulder mount do you recommend ? please link...

You CAN mount the H4N on the 5D/7D, but we chose not to do it that way and instead had the sound person monitoring with the H4N near him.

The short film was then shot with 5D mk II and 7D ? Do you have identical setup with both cameras - meaning the shotgun mic with H4N ?

We didn't use a 5D, just a 7D, but the sound setup is the same since it's independent of the camera. Regarding the sync issue, I can only speak to the 7D not having any problems. FWIW, I've never heard of anyone having issues with the 5D either.

Graeme
01-14-2010, 08:25 PM
I've seen some of the videos from this camera and they are awesome, that said a lot of people shot a lot of shallow DOF on this camera. From what I've been reading and talking to people it seems for a few reasons.

1. There regular video camera can't do the DOF so they use the 5D MII for those shots.
2. They are a photographer, and as I photographer I can tell you we don't push the aperture past f8 most of the time, so shallow DOF is almost a given in most of our shots.
3. It seems to be the "in" thing to do in videos now a days.

photographer
01-15-2010, 09:53 PM
You CAN mount the H4N on the 5D/7D, but we chose not to do it that way and instead had the sound person monitoring with the H4N near him.

We didn't use a 5D, just a 7D, but the sound setup is the same since it's independent of the camera. Regarding the sync issue, I can only speak to the 7D not having any problems. FWIW, I've never heard of anyone having issues with the 5D either.

Sorry for being so ignorant. So the only audio from the short film was obtained through the shotgun mic on 7D ?
H4n for monitoring of sound levels to adjust the shotgun mic gain on 7D ? But not used to actually record audio ?

Beeblebrox
01-15-2010, 10:12 PM
Sorry for being so ignorant. So the only audio from the short film was obtained through the shotgun mic on 7D ?
H4n for monitoring of sound levels to adjust the shotgun mic gain on 7D ? But not used to actually record audio ?

Shotgun mic to the H4N recording the audio.

No sound was used from the 7D itself. We synced the audio from the H4N to the picture from the 7D, and experienced no sync or sound drifting issues at all.

photographer
01-21-2010, 04:47 PM
are you encoding the default .H264 codec into Apple prores or other before editing ?
is that just for speed purposes ? does it lower the quality to encode it into different format ?

http://www.video.bhphotovideo.com/

Beeblebrox
01-21-2010, 05:14 PM
are you encoding the default .H264 codec into Apple prores or other before editing ? is that just for speed purposes ?

We transcode all of our footage into Prores BEFORE editing, yes. I find that it speeds up the response time and is generally a more robust codec to work with.

does it lower the quality to encode it into different format ?

Not that I've noticed. It shouldn't degenerate the footage to any appreciable degree.

photographer
01-22-2010, 12:54 AM
i found this review of various rigs:
http://www.cinema5d.com/news/?p=1474

indeed expensive !

you mentioned you have a shoulder mount and tripod setup ? could you post a picture with description and price ?

btw. what is the best technique to manually focus precisely, i find it quite challenging to be spot on. and AF in film mode is unusable. i'm talking about smooth gradual focus on moving objects, or moving following and object (walking with the camera)

chilipie
01-22-2010, 02:24 AM
btw. what is the best technique to manually focus precisely, i find it quite challenging to be spot on. and AF in film mode is unusable. i'm talking about smooth gradual focus on moving objects, or moving following and object (walking with the camera)

You need to get a follow focus for that. Philip Bloom (http://philipbloom.co.uk/2010/01/09/two-very-different-follow-focus-systems-for-hd-dslrs/) has a review of two different options on his blog.

photographer
01-24-2010, 08:43 PM
You need to get a follow focus for that. Philip Bloom (http://philipbloom.co.uk/2010/01/09/two-very-different-follow-focus-systems-for-hd-dslrs/) has a review of two different options on his blog.

really likes the gun & run kit from IDC.

also how do you measure exposure for video mode ?
i already have Sekonic L-358 that i use for stills, but in this video they mentioned it can be used for video too:

http://www.sekonic.com/products/Sekonic%20L-358%20FLASH%20MASTER_video.asp

i just don't know how