Low Budget - What to charge workers?

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projectaero

Hey guys,
If one has a production company and you get friends/family to help you with the production side of things, do you legally have to pay them? or is it if it sells you have to pay them then?
 
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projectaero

Your question's answer is completely you yourself. If you are planning to pay them before selling your project and you also have the money to pay them then you can pay them before selling your movie. Or you have the option to keep the money untill the project is finished and then pay them. If you cant afford to pay them even after the project is finished then mention it to them and in any case atleast make a legal contract with them with the terms and conditions (this supports you and supports you incase of legal issues).
 
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If you ask someone if they will do something for you as a favor or work for free, there is no expectation of pay. Pretty simple.
Deferred pay means you pay them later. This usually never happens.
 
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Indietalk:
Deferred pay means you pay them later. This usually never happens.
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Well this is really true and depends a lot upon the culture too. In Pakistan it is very easy to get some one's services for free but in Developed countries it is too hard to get someone's service for free. Not even friends. The reason i think is that in US there is no joint family system so every one has to earn his own so no one is really ready to spend time on a job which is not having any returns. But in my country people live in joint family system so they can provide their services at least upto some level.
 
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People will work for free here to get their foot in the door. Some people will take advantage of this.
 
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Well may i dont have the idea about the US culture. Anywas i dont have intentions to hurt some one. I personally think US people are more Independent in comparison to pakistani People so they cant afford to work free.


This is just my personal thought
 
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ad2478 said:
Well may i dont have the idea about the US culture. Anywas i dont have intentions to hurt some one. I personally think US people are more Independent in comparison to pakistani People so they cant afford to work free.


This is just my personal thought
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It's an interesting thought. In my experience it's not accurate.

When I was starting I workd for free all the time. Now that I make
my living making movies I still work for free on some projects. And
I sometimes ask people to work for me for free and I don't have
any problem finding people in the US to work for me.

For free.
 
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Thanks for taking my thoughts as interesting. Actually i have this thinking that in US (or in majority of developed countries) when a man is stable he gets seperated from his parents (mean lives seperately from his parents and subklings in a seperate place) so he cant afford to work for free.

In our country its our culture that as prefer to live together. Parents and sublings. So we have share the responsibilities and we all spend our money jointly so no one can afford to work free and come back home saying that i worked for free and my pocket is empty.


So thats why i thought differently about the cultural differences.

by the way its really great that we can get free workers in US too for a project incase if we dont have money or less money


Regards
 
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ad2478 said:
Actually i have this thinking that in US (or in majority of developed countries) when a man is stable he gets seperated from his parents (mean lives seperately from his parents and subklings in a seperate place) so he cant afford to work for free.
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You are quite correct in that thinking. We tend to move out of our
parents house fairly early in age - usually when going off to
college at around 18 to 20 years old.

I left my parents house when I was 19. But even then I did a lot
of work for free because the entertainment industry here in Los
Angeles demands it. It’s rare for anyone to immediately get
paying work right away.

Even after I got my first several paying jobs I would often find
myself without work for months on end. So I would work for free
just to keep my connections. I got kicked out of apartments, I
lived in my car, I slept on park benches. It was very difficult.
Even now I find myself without paying work for periods of time.
So I work on movies where they can’t pay me.
 
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so is there a standard rate to charge people or is that up to me, i dont wanto undercharge yet overcharge.
i dont have the money upfront unless i get funding ( which does paying your workers come out of that ) and if so how much is a standard rate, would it be like a normal job, per hour figure?
 
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I'm sure it's already been said...

You don't have to pay them anything. You should have everyone sign a contract, but this does not mean it stipulates pay. It's up to you. You can put in a clause in the contract that talks about future potential pay, based on possible sales...but it's not necessary.

My only advice to you: have everyone sign a contract. And feed everyone every time they work.

The company I work with a lot will typically pay their lead actors and main crew (albeit a small amount)...usually after the production is finished. The investors will get their money back once we reach a certain number of DVD sales (stipulated in the contract). But it's all very loose...nobody stresses about it, and a lot of the times since we are all very close, some of us will just not ask for the money, because they know it's going into the next feature (which we will be working on). If we ask for the money, they will pay.

We don't mind working for peanuts...we are making cool movies that get distribution. Especially now that the DVD market sucks so badly, we don't expect pay. The company I work for has decided to self distribute everything now...it's not worth it to sell your film. We're all just glad to be working for a noted indie director.

Most indie companies are deferred pay (DVD, being fed) anyway...we all know this--this is basic non-union work. If however I'm aware the budget is relatively high (upwards 50K), I will ask for a daily rate. If they deny me any pay, I will have to decide whether it's worth it to me or not.
 
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projectaero said:
so is there a standard rate to charge people or is that up to me, i dont wanto undercharge yet overcharge.
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Totally up to you.

I've made a bunch of short films with zero payment. (Everyone knew that up front. That's important!)

My last project, everyone got paid... a mighty $75 per day. Many of them had put in time for $0 on previous projects of mine; it was just the right thing to do, when I had a semi-serious budget to work with.

You'll carry obligations, though. When you're asking people to do work for no compensation, there'll always be an unspoken reciprocal debt.

For example, the paid PA on my last shoot (who had also worked for nothing, as an actor for me, earlier) is now putting together his first film project. He's calling in all the favours he can think of... and yah, I'll be there for him. 'Cos he did me right back then, and it's the least I can do for him now.

One hand washes the other.

I guess it comes down to maintaining a circle.

Just don't get in a habit of milking people. *That* will come back to bite your butt, someday.

Long opinion short:

If you can pay even a token amount, go for it.

If you can't, that's no big worry, either. Just as long as everyone understands what the deal is.
 
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projectaero said:
so is there a standard rate to charge people or is that up to me, i dont wanto undercharge yet overcharge.
i dont have the money upfront unless i get funding ( which does paying your workers come out of that ) and if so how much is a standard rate, would it be like a normal job, per hour figure?
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Your questions seem to indicate to me that you need to learn a little bit more about business and media production before you establish a company as a legal entity. You need to know about things like contracts, taxes, unions, (if these apply where you are), work laws, insurance, lots of legal stuff. My goodness, why put the cart before the horse? You may want to look into interning for a production company, to learn the business by observing and helping out. Or take some courses, attend workshops, in business and media production. Running a business is complex -- it's not "Hey, my dad's got a barn, let's put on a show!"

If you just want to make some movies, and want to enlist friends and family to help you, go for it -- the practice will teach you a great deal. Do it as a passionate hobby first. However, to make it a legal business, in all honesty, you don't sound familiar enough with filmmaking, nor ready to be a business owner. This is not a criticism -- just some gentle advice.
 
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Generally you need a release form to transfer copyrights, but in reality a release is just one line of defense. If you don't pay people then you should get "crew releases" signed by people who contribute to the creative look of the film (DP, director, actors, art department people). In the absence of documentation of consideration (cashed check) there might not be a legal transfer of copyrights. Remember that a movie is a "joint work" created by people who contribute to the look of the movie. This does not include everyone. Makeup artists, grips, gaphers, producers usually can't have any legal claim to ownership of a movie.

If you pay crew people too little often you will lose some of them last minute to other higher paying gigs.
 
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Legally you don't have to pay anyone anything...

However, if you have someone sign a contract, it's really only technically a legally binding contract if they are paid - but you can literally pay $1 in order to accomplish that.... but that's getting really really technical, like it would only matter if they took you to court with a good lawyer, for all other/ regular purposes just having them sign a contract saying that they'll work for free will cover you.
 
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