View Full Version : Just My Personal Opinion


ussinners
02-17-2009, 11:30 PM
My movie Us Sinners has been called by reviewers a movie for True Horror Fans. It's also been called the worst piece of shit ever made. The one thing I personally guarantee is the ending is a 100% shocker. We had one showing at the Spooky Movie Red Eye Marathon and while there were very few people there, two of them jumped out of their seats and one yelled "Holy Shit". Even the people that hate it, think the ending pretty much rocks.

The acting in it is better then any micro-budget movie, and has been said by many to be on par with decent budgeted horror flicks.

Some will argue shooting it 29 fps was not a bright idea. But, the people that have enjoyed it, haven't had any complaints. There are (were) movies shot 29 fps before Us Sinners that made festivals.

I've entered just about every horror festival there is. Us Sinners hasn't gotten into one. But, I know some of the crap that has. That's what pisses me off. These movies have only one thing that Us Sinners doesn't and that's some minor B-Actor's name on the poster.

It doesn't matter if Us Sinners has better acting, better kills and one of the most original disturbing endings in a very long time. They have some schlub on screen for 10 minutes and they will get a spot.

If your movie can get into a festival it's a wonderful thing. And if it's a widely known festival it has a good chance at a distribution deal. But, personally I won't waste anymore money. Because I've seen what these festivals choose, and it's not quality. It's what might bring ten more people into the theatre.

Festivals don't care if the audience goes home disappointed. A good example is go to Zooey Deschanel's imdb page, and look at all the indie work she's done. I love her, but she has made some awful movies that should never have been made. The really bad "artsy" ones have all been in numerous festivals. Not because they deserved to be, but because of her name. I love Indie films, and there are plenty out there. But these are trash.

indietalk
02-17-2009, 11:38 PM
Research the festivals before you enter, most festivals are not "Sundance" and are very indie. There are fests for your film, if it is well made.

directorik
02-18-2009, 02:05 AM
It's what might bring ten more people into the theatre.

Itís a rude awakening, isnít it?

Festivals want people to pay to see movies. Just as much as
distributors and theater owners.

And us filmmakers. We like people in the theaters to see our
movies, too. Anything that might bring ten more into the
theater is something festivals, distributors and theater owners
want.

All of our hard work, talent, effort, sweat and determination
often doenít mean a thing in the business. Wouldnít it be nice
if those of us who deserve to get our films in festivals, got them
in?

Before your movie got into the Spooky Movie Red Eye Marathon how
many times had you paid to go?

ussinners
02-19-2009, 01:55 AM
The Marathon was hundreds of miles from my house, so I only went that one night. I very rarely go to the movies, I rent nowadays. People talking, cell phones, pointers and just plain assholes keep me from the theatre. IT WASN'T LIKE THAT WHEN I WAS A KID. Between the ages of 13 - 20 I went to the movies every week, if not daily. I saw TCM every day it played, and saw it twice a day. But, morons overrun theatres now, so I rent. But, I can easily watch between 60 - 90 movies a month.

Though I did have an excellent experience in LA in December. The Disney 3D movie was excellent in a magnificent theatre. First off, real popcorn and real butter you put on yourself. Comfortable seats, a balcony, large screen, great sound system. Plus before the movie they do a live stage show. It's the way going to the movies should be.

I understand festivals want people in the seats. You know how you do that? Show good movies. If you have a festival, choose the best movies, and the people will come. That's how you get a reputation and audience. If you have a festival that shows crap because you can have a few extra people in the seats, then you're not doing anyone a service. Reviewers will report on the crappy ass movies, and it'll just be an endless cycle.

I won't spend money anymore for festivals, because I honestly feel their fixed. Someone told me about a friend who runs a festival that had so many entries, most of them were still in the envelopes when the festival was taking place. That's just beyond wrong.

indietalk
02-19-2009, 02:09 AM
I understand festivals want people in the seats. You know how you do that? Show good movies. If you have a festival, choose the best movies, and the people will come. That's how you get a reputation and audience. If you have a festival that shows crap because you can have a few extra people in the seats, then you're not doing anyone a service. Reviewers will report on the crappy ass movies, and it'll just be an endless cycle.
You would think it would work this way... it's the same in the music biz, they ask bands how many people they can bring to bars. If you can bring 30 people, they book you, no matter how good you are, if you are an amazing band and you only bring five, they don't call you again. They don't look at the larger picture. They could become a reputable place that is known for good music if they build it up. Fast money beats slow money.

There are fests that show the good flicks, though.

directorik
02-19-2009, 06:21 AM
The Marathon was hundreds of miles from my house, so I only went that one night. I very rarely go to the movies, I rent nowadays.
Exactly.

You were disappointed that very few people showed up. Very few
people show up to festivals unless there is a movie playing they
really want to see. And what people want to see is a movie made
by or starring someone they have heard of.

I understand festivals want people in the seats. You know how you do that? Show good movies.
Showing good movies doesnít do it. YOU donít go to festivals. Even
when they show good movies. Without ever going to festivals you
are convinced that most festivals show movies that aren't as good
as yours. But you donít go to them.

That, too, is beyond wrong. If fellow filmmakers doesnít even got
to film festivals then itís understandable that the general wonít
go. YOU donít.

You should try it. First you should support your fellow filmmakers
by attending festivals. And second, the festival crowd (though
small) isnít like a general crowd. No people talking, cell phones,
pointers or just plain assholes.

Iím not trying to convince you to enter any more festivals. Iím
only offering my personal opinion that most filmmakers donít even
attend festivals unless their movie got in. If we supported film
festivals that showed movies made be unknowns (like us) starring
unknowns (like our casts) festivals would be more willing to show
good movies and not look for bad ones that have a ďnameĒ.

Itís up to YOU as an audience member to support good festivals.

I have seen more excellent movies at festivals that never find
distribution than movies coming out of the studios. Movies that
never even hit the rental market that you use.

You should try it.

Just my personal opinion.

BVproductions
02-19-2009, 09:18 AM
Directorik...I agree with much of what you say. I am guilty of bitching about festivals but rarely support my local, "small" festival which is far from the Sundance prance. Thanks for the comments.

ussinners
02-19-2009, 06:02 PM
"it's the same in the music biz,"

I was in a band for many years, and this is true. But, my band was an actual exception. We never had a following, and we never advertised. We pretty much didn't do anything a band should do to get noticed. But, we were highly original, so no one ever left and we were always welcome to come back. But, we were the exception. Since, we never pursued a fan base we eventually broke up.

"Showing good movies doesn’t do it. YOU don’t go to festivals. Even when they show good movies. Without ever going to festivals you are convinced that most festivals show movies that aren't as good as yours. But you don’t go to them. "

But, I do see the crap that comes out that is distributed and it's garbage. I don't just rent movies with names, I pretty much see everything. While I should go to festivals in my area, I'm not going to support something I know is going to suck. It isn't hard to see a poster, read a synopsis or see stills and a trailer and know whether the movie is going to be any good. And most movies I rent that are loaded with festival logos usually suck. I mean really suck. Like "What the hell were the film makers thinking" kind of suck.

I've seen movies that have beaten Us Sinners in festivals, and they get across the board bad reviews. They have low ratings at imdb and most everyone talks poorly about them. I'm not saying Us Sinners is a God Send to horror fans, because it's split evenly down the middle. One half loves it, the other hates it with a deep seeded passion. But, at least half the people like it. These movies no one enjoys.

As far as getting people into the seats, promoters need to really pick and choose carefully. Because if they show crap, people aren't going to come back unless there's a name they like. But, if they choose really good movies, they might have fewer people, but those viewers will go home and tell their friends about the great films they saw. That's how you build a base. That's how you build longevity.

As far as the marathon Us Sinners was in. I asked the promoter and he told me the theatre did no advertising. None. The stupid thing is, this was in the middle of nowhere. Farms on either side, little towns with nothing to do. With a little effort they could have gotten people in the seats, but they didn't even try. I'm pretty sure this was a Saturday night from 7pm - 7am. They should have had people there till at least 1am. I would have been thrilled since Us Sinners had a prime 10pm slot.

Zensteve
02-20-2009, 03:28 AM
I do see the crap that comes out that is distributed and it's garbage. I don't just rent movies with names

My movie Us Sinners has been called (snip) the worst piece of shit ever made.

While I should go to festivals in my area, I'm not going to support something I know is going to suck.

I really don't like to label people, but you are very bitter. Or cynical. Or just plain troll.


theatre did no advertising. None. The stupid thing is, this was in the middle of nowhere. Farms on either side, little towns with nothing to do. With a little effort they could have gotten people in the seats

Dude...

Little towns... middle of nowhere... farms on every corner of the compass...

You sent *your* film, to the middle of nowhere... and are surprised by this? :rolleyes:

Aside from the whole "lack of population" thing going on, there's probably a very unrealistic expectation of how your film would be received in such areas.

promoters need to really pick and choose carefully. Because if they show crap, people aren't going to come back unless there's a name they like. But, if they choose really good movies, they might have fewer people, but those viewers will go home and tell their friends about the great films they saw.

I don't think you have any idea about how the film-fest circuit works.

I pretty much see everything

I doubt it.

I also doubt that you are submitting your film to appropriate festivals.

...and by "appropriate", I don't mean cornfields in the middle of Iowa.

Look at your target audience. Find them (heck, WithoutABox.com is free for looking), and find the specific festivals you want to aim for.

Itís up to YOU as an audience member to support good festivals.

Do this!

Even the small local ones.

Local Fire Dept raising some extra bucks by charging a fiver for the latest local film-fest? You'll see things never seen before. Some may suck... but there's almost always a gem.

Aditionally, you'll learn a lot.

indietalk
02-20-2009, 03:31 AM
I've seen lots of great stuff at festivals. Lots of bad stuff too. The "name" stuff with the stars is usually on opening night, or at the prime evening slot, but you can watch true indies all day. Fests are a blast.

directorik
02-20-2009, 11:40 AM
You have excellent reasons not to go to festivals.

So do many other people. So you shouldnít be surprised when
feativals feel they need that little something extra to get
people to leave the living room and their rented movies and pay
to go.

You see crap that comes out. What you donít see are the gems like
YOUR movie because you wonít go to film festivals.

Unfortunatly many other filmmakers are like you. Filmmakers making
movies you call "crap" isn't the problem. Filmmakers like you who
won't go to festivals are the problem.


As far as getting people into the seats, promoters need to really pick and choose carefully. Because if they show crap, people aren't going to come back unless there's a name they like. But, if they choose really good movies, they might have fewer people, but those viewers will go home and tell their friends about the great films they saw.
I agree with this. And you should be among the people in the
audience who sees that really good movie and goes home to tell
your friends about the great film you saw. Not among the people
waiting at home for your friends to find the good films for you.

I know Iím not going to convince you. You have made up your mind
that festivals are, in general, filled with crap and you wonít
support somthing you know is going to suck.

I hope just one or two other filmmakers reading will realize that
we filmmakers canít just make movies and enter festivals - we
need to spend our limited money to support festivals and fellow
filmmakers.

If even 10% of filmmakers who enterd their own movie in a festival
went to two festivals a year and saw two movies in each festival,
the festival judges could be more daring in ther selection.

Buy you won't go.

I attened at least five different films festivals each year and
see at least three screenings in each festival - including short
films. Iím sad to say that more often than not Iím in a theater
with only the filmmakers and their friends or - in many cases - I
sit all alone in the theater.

EvsFX08
02-20-2009, 12:27 PM
You know, as a wannabe film maker, if I attended a film festival, it would be motivating to see other film makers come out and support my film, even if it did suck- hell movies are subjective in general. But, even if it did suck, I would think it would be interesting to see the many different styles of filimng, techniques, storylines, etc. Maybe I could take away a couple of tips just by going and seeing other people's work? Maybe just by showing my face a few times would help get me noticed instead of sitting home wondering how my movie is being reveiewed, maybe I would be able to network with other film makers, who knows what would happen if I went to more festivals than just where mine was playing? I was hoping the Indie industry would be more like this forum, where everyone is all about helping each other out, but Ussinners portays the Indie world much like the Hip-Hop music industry of dog-eat-dog," I got mine, the hell with you". I hope that maybe the festivals mentioned by Ussinner are the exception rather than the rule. Or am I simply too new and naiive,? Hell I'm still trying to figure out which end of the camera points to the scene.
"Where do the batteries go again?"

directorik
02-20-2009, 01:06 PM
You ask a lot of excellent ďifĒ questions EvsFX.

And IF you start attending festivals you will get your answers.
Iíve met many amazing people at film festivals - festivals where
I didnít have a film entered. When I was a wannabe I volunteered
at a couple of festivals - sitting at the info desk, filling
coffee urns and cleaning up in the filmmakers lounge, taking tickets.

Do it! Start attending film festivals as a wannabe filmmaker.

. I hope that maybe the festivals mentioned by Ussinner are the exception rather than the rule. Or am I simply too new and naiive,?
The good news is ussinners has very limited actual experience with
festivals. All festivals want excellent films. All of them. No
exceptions. They do their best to program good movies. If some
people donít like some films thatís really no different than
distributors. They distribute films some people think are crap.

But I understand his frustration. Iíve entered movies I think are
quite good in festivals and havenít been accepted. The first
time out I understand why some filmmakers get emotional and take
it out on the festivals in general.

But after a while - if the filmmaker can get past the emotions -
itís clear that festivals are a business, too. They want butts in
the seats. And more people will pay to see a movie with a ďnameĒ
than will pay to see the kinds of movie we make.

Itís a rude awakening. And it makes some of us better filmmakers.

EvsFX08
02-20-2009, 02:30 PM
You ask a lot of excellent ďifĒ questions EvsFX.

When I was a wannabe I volunteered
at a couple of festivals - sitting at the info desk, filling
coffee urns and cleaning up in the filmmakers lounge, taking tickets.

Do it! Start attending film festivals as a wannabe filmmaker.


.

that's a good idea, however, I'm still trying to find my niche and figure out what direction I want to go, this music video business seems like a good idea at the moment. Seeing your Thread makes sense to at least see what a festival entails and the workings, I'll have to find something in my area, but I haven't seen anything other than in Atlanta which is 2 hours away from me.

ussinners
02-20-2009, 04:25 PM
"but you are very bitter. Or cynical. Or just plain troll."

Not at all. It's called being realistic.

"Aside from the whole "lack of population" thing going on, there's probably a very unrealistic expectation of how your film would be received in such areas."

No offense, but here's where a little common sense goes a long way.

a) It was a large multi-plex in the middle of nowhere. It doesn't mean there's no people (I said there were towns). They don't make large multi-plexs where there are no people. It was a Saturday night and the ticket was cheap to sit and watch 12 hours of new horror movies. The place should have been packed. But, if you don't tell the townfolk, they ain't showing up. The place went out of business a week or two later.

b) I wrote in my original post, Us Sinners was the only one that received any kind of audience reaction. All good for a horror movie.

Honestly, what was the last horror movie at a festival you went to where people literally (and with good reason) jumped out of their seats?

"I don't think you have any idea about how the film-fest circuit works."

I know how it works, and I know how it should work. It's a really simple concept. I don't know all the ins and outs, but the basics are not that hard. And for me, it's just not worth it. For film makers who make little tiny micro-budget movies (especially miniDV) with no name actors in it, it's just not worth it. The only place these film makers should be aiming for are festivals close to their homes. Because there's a news worthy piece, and they hopefully have friends.

I live in Jersey and there's a theatre (that's a short train ride from NY) that I can rent out for $85 and hour. I could have shown Us Sinners and advertised for the amount of money that I've spent on entering festivals.

"I doubt it."

Well, you can be wrong. Because my taste starts at the silents and work it's way up. The only crap I try to avoid straight up are Stallone, Van Damme and that ilk.

"...and by "appropriate", I don't mean cornfields in the middle of Iowa."

I applied to every Horror festival in the US, many through withoutabox. The Spooky Movie is in Washington DC. But, they were having a marathon somewhere in Maryland. That's where Us Sinners played.

"Unfortunatly many other filmmakers are like you."

But, you're saying I don't go to festivals ONLY because I don't want to support them. But, an even more important reason is what I stated earlier. People in theatres SUCK. They talk, they use their cell phones, and act like they're sitting in their living rooms. But, they're not. It is no longer an enjoyable experience to go to the movies. Hell, I barely go to Broadway anymore because morons do the same thing in theatres. That's $110 a ticket to listen to someone talk about shit. And I don't sit in the balcony, I enjoy the front orchestra.

"What you don’t see are the gems like YOUR movie because you won’t go to film festivals."

That's disappointing. But, I watch about 40 first time movies a month. There's a lot out there.

"I know I’m not going to convince you. You have made up your mind that festivals are, in general, filled with crap and you won’t support somthing you know is going to suck."

That's true. Another reason is they overlook good movies for ones that have a name in it. They're not doing what they say they're going to do. Because as YOU ALL point out, it's a business.
As a film maker you enter festivals in hopes of having your movie seen, but also to hopefully get a distribution deal. Well, distributors don't go to these tiny no-name festivals (maybe if they're in NY LA or Chicago). They go to the large ones that are basically set-up to take the little unknown film maker's money, and push the ones that will get a deal on name power anyway.

It's a crap shoot with less then bad odds for the truly independent unknown film maker. And I think we all can agree on that, because we all agree festivals care more about filling seats then showing great movies. That's not bitter, nasty, rude or being a troll. It's realistic.

kazze
02-20-2009, 05:08 PM
I am trying to inspire myself by thinking of little movies that went big ... like Blair Witch Project / Clerks / Napolean Dynamite / Hostel to name a small few.

I myself will attend a festival in Boston this spring but I forgot the name - have the dates though - and the Provincetown festival which I think is in June. I just want to check it out - and so what if I end up seeing crap on a screen - it will inspire me more!

ussinners
02-22-2009, 01:57 AM
Blair Witch suckered EVERYONE into believing it was real footage, and people bought it. How? I don't know. Because it was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. But, bless'em. They took a gimmick to the limit and made millions.

Clerks, absolutely. Made for absolutely nothing.

Napolean Dynamite over a quarter million budget (imdb says $400,000), and Hostel over a three million dollar budget. Not little micro-budget movies. Not even close.

EvsFX08
02-22-2009, 12:20 PM
Because it was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. But, bless'em. They took a gimmick to the limit and made millions.

.

Doesn't sound so stupid after all now does it? How much did your film make?

chiarosKuro_Films
02-22-2009, 03:42 PM
Ive been sending my stuff to small venues for the past 2 years, and mostly because those festivals are right up the ally of the production. Though it wasn't exactly Sundance, the venues packed enough people who were there for that kind of thing that satisfied my want for exposure. Eventually, I plan to step it up, depending on the film, and send it elsewhere. There really isnt a reason not to send it a thousand and one places at once, but you also have to consider where your looking to go with it, and what sort of submission costs are you really looking to pay. I will say, don't let that be a deciding factor for your entire career, otherwise you really wont get anything ANYWHERE.

Working in the Alaska film scene, its really easy to gain an audience once the word is out. Probably from the geographic limitations. They really don't have many other festivals/screenings to go to, and their really tired of staying in doors all day when its -10 outside. But, on the bright side, its good exposure, and amps my want to produce more. This is not a large-town venue, by any means, but it packs alot of interest once you put yourself on the line. Ive also received quite a lot of good feedback from quality international filmmakers who have come through town, who were there either for the festival itself or just to see Alaska. So, you really need to consider the geographical thing before you submit as well: "how many people are going to be there and why?", "is it a good place for other filmmakers to see films?" "what is the exposure going to be like, regardless?" You know L.A. will be "LA" and Broken Arrow, OK, is, well, "Broken fucking Arrow," but that doesn't mean Broken Arrow wont pull people, nor should you distress yourself if it doesn't. An audience, in every case, is still an audience.

Choosing a small town venue is really not as bad as you might think, but you just need to study the festival and study your own film to see if it fits theme (if there is one). These qualities, and these accounts of my work in a "small town" setting hopefully will help you go after those smaller venues, as you really never know what factors plays into what draws people there.

Woodruff

ussinners
02-22-2009, 07:18 PM
Doesn't sound so stupid after all now does it? How much did your film make?

That's actually pretty funny. Because me and my Executive Producer are talking about our next project. So I sent him the first draft and he wrote back "George it seems like you want to make another good movie".

Of course "Good Movie" is all a matter of taste and opinion. But, I knew what he meant. Yeah, I do want to make another good movie. The people at BWP didn't. They made crap, and marketed it as reality. If they had marketed it as a movie with actors faking it, they'd wouldn't have made a dime. If the promoters at these festivals had actually thought about what they were watching, it would never had been believed. But as Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute".

Does it sound stupid to me? Yeah, it does. Though not on the masterminds part, but on how gullible so many people were to actually believe such nonsense.

I think Otis and Rest Stop are much better movies then BWP, yet they haven't grossed anywhere near as much. Both were produced by the BWP writer. Money has nothing to do with whether a movie is good or not. Hype and marketing have nothing to do with whether a movie is good or not. As a few of the posters at this subject have mentioned, they've seen some real gems that haven't even gotten deals.

I rather make a good movie and fail, then put out something I know is crap and build a huge lie about it. But if money is all you're interested in create porn, there will always be a market for it.

EvsFX08
02-22-2009, 08:44 PM
I rather make a good movie and fail, then put out something I know is crap and build a huge lie about it. But if money is all you're interested in create porn, there will always be a market for it.

Well, ok, but there's a difference in a hobby and a business. Making movies is about making money, otherwise, why bother showing them at festivals and trying to get distribution deals? Sounds to me your more interested in making what you consider a good film, even if other people don't think so, well, that's called a hobby if you're not making money, otherwise it's called a business, even the IRS says so. Which, hey, film making is my hobby right now, I'm not trying to make money on it right now, but I'm also not complaining about not having my film being seen at festivals. As you stated, movies are subjective. I thought BWP was brilliant in the way the format of the movie was portrayed. I believe it won awards as well. Obviously I'm not the only one who saw the brilliance in it. Also, people didn't go see it because they thought it was real and was gullible, everyone knew it was only a movie, but the way it was shot put the audience in the moment, and you felt it was real,you could feel the "fear". If you're having bad luck with festivals like you are, maybe grab some pointers from a couple of kids running around the woods with a Hi8 camera who made millions from a novel concept. Or, continue on with your crusade of "good films" that don't get shown at festivals and have a locker full of dusty "good movies" you made. No disrespect intended here, but I gotta say, you really sound like you're whining about this whole thing. Venting is one thing, cool, I can understand the hit to your ego, but to say that something like BWP was stupid and "Crap", and all "festivals are fixed" is just plain arrogant or sounds like something my 13 year old would say. Nobody here has any sympathy for arrogant people. In your words, (your film) "It's also been called the worst piece of shit ever made". And you readily admit that it has never been accepted into one festival. Really? Not one?
So, let me get this straight, not one festival accepted your movie and it's been called derogatory names, and you think the only answer is that all festivals must be fixed? Wow, interesting thought process. See, the poor reviews I got for my work I used as a learning tool. I would think you'd have to have thick skin in the movie business if you plan on ever getting anywhere. Anyway, I used the reviews to fix my work and I became better for it. Just a thought you might consider. I have no doubt you are far more experienced than I and a better film maker than I, I just find your whining and rationale a little amateurish, just my opinion. But, then again, I'm not even a novice film maker,so who cares what I think?

indietalk
02-23-2009, 01:06 AM
Well, ok, but there's a difference in a hobby and a business. Making movies is about making money, otherwise, why bother showing them at festivals and trying to get distribution deals? Sounds to me your more interested in making what you consider a good film, even if other people don't think so, well, that's called a hobby,That's ridiculous, if you create films, you are a filmmaker. Slapping the hobby label where it does not apply is an insult. What you call a hobby others call art. A hobby is something you don't have a passion for but you like to do. Most filmmakers I know have a passion for filmmaking. It's not a hobby just because they haven't made a buck. Ever heard of suffering for your art? You can also get to the point where your art makes money. Maybe you don't have a passion for filmmaking, and are in it to make a buck and that's it. I don't know, but that's a hard road to travel.

How can you say if you make films whether people like them or not it's a hobby?! This may be the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Are you saying you need to please everyone when you make a film? Otherwise it's a hobby?

Scoopicman
02-23-2009, 01:42 AM
What you call a hobby others call art. A hobby is something you don't have a passion for but you like to do. Most filmmakers I know have a passion for filmmaking. It's not a hobby just because they haven't made a buck. Ever heard of suffering for your art? You can also get to the point where your art makes money. Maybe you don't have a passion for filmmaking, and are in it to make a buck and that's it. I don't know, but that's a hard road to travel.

Interesting direction the thread is taking. I agree that a person who makes movies is a filmmaker. You are what you do, which is better than talking about it. :) However, when I started making movies, I called it a hobby. I was fully passionate, making up to 7 shorts per year, on Super 8 and 16mm film. It made me feel alive, but it was for fun and for showing to audiences. 9 years into it, I took out a 20K loan and hired actors and crew for my first feature, THE BLACK CRYSTAL. All of a sudden, I crossed the line from what I considered a hobby to a low budget filmmaker.

The business aspects are such that you cannot ignore and I think distinguish the hobby from the profession. Having money involved meant making different decisions, than if I was just making it for fun. To be marketable means having to consider what the movie might have to be, from a "High Concept" idea to hiring a name actor/actress, to putting certain elements in, like guns and nudity. Typically, I don't just throw in gratuitousness and just make the movie that I want to make, but it's usually on the High Concept side.




As for the Film Festival topic, I agree with just about everything that directorik has said. :) I believe in supporting indies and film festivals. It's totally rewarding to be recognized, when it happens. Sure some are political with their selection process, especially Sundance, but there are a lot of good movies out there. I still prefer the theater going experience to the living room, anyday. I guess I'm lucky to live in a town where the audiences are fairly respectful to others in the audience, because I rarely have people mess with my viewing experience. In fact, I live for the burst out loud oohs and ahs. It's like the charge one gets out of going to a sporting event, provided you are watching something halfway scary or exciting.

ussinners
02-23-2009, 05:16 AM
"BWP was stupid and "Crap", and all "festivals are fixed" is just plain arrogant or sounds like something my 13 year old would say."

BWP was accepted into festivals because the organizers believed it to be a documentary. It won awards when people believed the footage to be real. You can like it, I think it was absolute crap. I firmly believe no one would even know about it, if the con documentary didn't work.

As for all Festivals being fixed. I didn't say that. Not only didn't I say it, but everyone pretty much agrees that films with "stars" will get picked over better films with no stars. So, I'm not whining about it, I'm stating a fact.

"In your words, (your film) "It's also been called the worst piece of shit ever made"."

You conveniently left out the part about all the great reviews Us Sinners has received. With all of them saying Us Sinners is for TRUE HORROR FANS, with one of the most shocking climaxes in recent horror history. Even some of the reviewers that hate the movie think the ending is pretty cool.

"Nobody here has any sympathy for arrogant people."

I'm not looking for sympathy.

"I just find your whining and rationale a little amateurish, just my opinion."

You might think I'm whining, but I'm just answering points from each post. I did start this thread.

"In fact, I live for the burst out loud oohs and ahs. It's like the charge one gets out of going to a sporting event, provided you are watching something halfway scary or exciting."

So, if you're at a baseball game or a movie, and the person next to you is talking on his cell phone about what he had for dinner last night you find that enjoyable? Because I really hope you don't think I was talking about people engrossed in the movie.

EvsFX08
02-23-2009, 08:38 AM
That's ridiculous, if you create films, you are a filmmaker. Slapping the hobby label where it does not apply is an insult. What you call a hobby others call art. A hobby is something you don't have a passion for but you like to do. Most filmmakers I know have a passion for filmmaking. It's not a hobby just because they haven't made a buck. Ever heard of suffering for your art? You can also get to the point where your art makes money. Maybe you don't have a passion for filmmaking, and are in it to make a buck and that's it. I don't know, but that's a hard road to travel.

How can you say if you make films whether people like them or not it's a hobby?! This may be the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Are you saying you need to please everyone when you make a film? Otherwise it's a hobby?

No not at all, I was referring to UsSinners' posts where he discusses distributors. If you make films simply for the art of entering festivals, then cool, it's still a hobby (and an art)-unless you don't work at a job and film making is the only thing you do. A hobby is something you do on the side (the passion level is up to the individual, not by definition). If US Sinners makes films for a living, than it's a business, yes? Most small businesses have stemmed from hobbies, so yes, there IS a strong correlation between hobby and a business. But, we're getting away from my original point, which I evidently did not articulate well. I was not trying to compare a hobby versus an art. I was simply going along the lines of UsSinners statement discussing the business aspect:

"That's true. Another reason is they overlook good movies for ones that have a name in it. They're not doing what they say they're going to do. Because as YOU ALL point out, it's a business.
As a film maker you enter festivals in hopes of having your movie seen, but also to hopefully get a distribution deal. Well, distributors don't go to these tiny no-name festivals (maybe if they're in NY LA or Chicago). They go to the large ones that are basically set-up to take the little unknown film maker's money, and push the ones that will get a deal on name power anyway. "

It's appears to me that he was hoping to have his film noticed by a distributor, which hey, wouldn't everyone like that? I can see where you would think I try to define a hobby with "Sounds to me your more interested in making what you consider a good film, even if other people don't think so, well, that's called a hobby if you're not making money, otherwise it's called a business, even the IRS says so".... no I was not trying to confine a hobby or art as making money or not, simply the business aspect, like I said, to me, he was looking for a distribution deal, but hey, I can' blame him for that.

So, all I was really pointing out (or maybe trying to ask) was if he submitted his film and simply talked about the art aspect, fine, we can talk about the art aspect. But, he was the one who mentioned other films he called "crap" make millions and get distro deals. So, is he upset that his film didn't get a distro deal? Or is he upset that film fests selected other movies over his that he felt were beneath his abilities? It's apples and oranges. I agree completely with you IndieTalk that filmmaking is an art, but when you try to mix business into it versus the passion for it or simply because you enjoy making films, doesn't it change the dynamics? The fact that he refuses to attend further festivals tells me he's not into it for the art of film making and doesn't share the passion other film makers have who do attend festivals, he's into making money- which is fine with me too. I think someone else mentioned that there are numerous festivals for all types of movies. If you're gonna try and make money, you need to be able to accept rejection. Art is what you percieve it to be, but when you try to profit from an audience, you can't complain when people don't like it, it's called.....well, business. I sincerely apologize if I insulted anyone, but I hope I clarified my point. In my humble opinoin, it sounds like he spent a lot of money, time and effort into making probably a really good movie, however, it sounds like he's a little scorned by not being able to get a distro deal via a festival acceptance. Distribution is mentioned in more than one of his Threads. I could have misinterpreted his message, but this is what I got out of it.

EvsFX08
02-23-2009, 09:48 AM
"

BWP was accepted into festivals because the organizers believed it to be a documentary. It won awards when people believed the footage to be real. You can like it, I think it was absolute crap. I firmly believe no one would even know about it, if the con documentary didn't work.


So, if you're at a baseball game or a movie, and the person next to you is talking on his cell phone about what he had for dinner last night you find that enjoyable? Because I really hope you don't think I was talking about people engrossed in the movie.

Interesting, I didn't know that- about the organizers thinking it was a documentary when the film clearly opened in a movie format, guess the organizers got duped.

Also, I agree about the people being annoying at the movie. I get that.

I hope you don't think I'm trying to "flame" you because I'm not. I totally repsect that you have gotten farther than I have with film making. I'll admit I'm too chickenshit to produce a movie for general audiences, I'd be afraid of going through the rejection you did. I like music videos and documentaries, where these productions are for a small group of individuals who enjoy that particular genre and really all I care about is the artist's satisfaction, the audience is up to the artist (or director). I respect you as a film maker, so please don't think I am disrespcting you for your abilities. I'm just confused over what you're actual complaint is, are you upset over not getting a distro deal? Are you upset because you're film didn't get selected by any festivals? Or are you upset with the movie theater atmosphere? Or all three?
I get that festivals may show movies with B actors in it to sell tickets, that's probably true, but I think someone else pointed out that Festivals have to make their money too. They have to pay to rent the place. I may beg oing to one in Atlanta where the tickets are $150. I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing and don't know why I'm spending $150 on my first festival, but I've decided to attend some. Apparently, it a pretty big film festival and I'll be completely out of my element, but then there's another closer to me that charges only $30. If you're fed up with the Festival scene and you think you can do better than the movies you see getting selected, what's preventing you from holding your own Festival? Maybe trying to run one yourself will make you see things from their perspective and getting people in the seats. Who knows, maybe you'll learn a few tricks as to how to get your films into other Festivals. I don't really consider myself an avid film maker yet because I'm more of a post production guy who is trying to get into film making and only have a few documentaries and a music video produced. However, I am a businessman and maybe that's the aspect I'm taking on your movie. Of course, in my particular business, it is getting exposure for my customers which generates cash, the music videos are to promote the individual and sell downloads. My documentaries are for luring sponsors. So, I tend to think of how can I produce this to attract the most people which in turn generates cash? I do have the same amount of passion for quality as you do, I guess I'm just thinking on a different but equal platform. For the film making aspect, I make movies with my kids and then add special effects and all that neat stuff; two different things, making videos for business and making videos for the fun and love of film making. Personally, with as much passion as you have with your movie and as much discussion this has generated, although horror is not my genre of choice, I'd like to see it. Is there a place I can download it and watch it?

Scoopicman
02-23-2009, 12:25 PM
So, if you're at a baseball game or a movie, and the person next to you is talking on his cell phone about what he had for dinner last night you find that enjoyable? Because I really hope you don't think I was talking about people engrossed in the movie.


For you to not like going to the theater, you are either ultra-sensitive or live in a rude community. I can't remember the last time someone was acting inappropriate in the theater - even on a cell phone. If they did do that, I would say something. For me, seeing a movie with an audience is half the enjoyment. Someone laughs at a scene that I wasn't thinking was that funny, but then it gets contagious - happened at both AIRPLANE and MY COUSIN VINNY. I ended up liking the movies more because of it.

I've got 3 kids, now, but when I was single, I used to go to see movies like ROBOCOP 10 times, at the theater. When EVIL DEAD 2 came out, I saw it 5 times that week. (It was only in town for 1 week) What changed each night was how the audience reacted. I get off on people loving a movie.

I think I like movies more than anyone on in the world. :D Honestly, when people complain about Hollywood and indie films, I don't agree. By the way, I loved the last RAMBO. Ha ha!

ussinners
02-24-2009, 02:26 AM
"I'm just confused over what you're actual complaint is, are you upset over not getting a distro deal? Are you upset because you're film didn't get selected by any festivals? Or are you upset with the movie theater atmosphere? Or all three?"

I'm not complaining. I wrote about my experiences and my OPINION (that's in the title) about festivals. Maybe everyone here has hundreds of dollars to spend trying to get their work into festivals, but I don't. I'm sure most film makers don't either. Because if they did, they'd have probably spent in on making the movie.

The film maker has his micro-budget movie (maybe he spent a thousand, maybe ten thousand) and everywhere he turns he sees "Enter Festivals". Get your movie into a festival. So you sign up for withoutabox and you have your choice. So, you look and search and pick and choose. You spend a months salary on a crap shoot, where you're better off putting it in the slot machines at Atlantic City.

Festivals are not worth entering unless you have a name in the movie. If you've made a good movie, and it didn't cost a couple hundred grand to make, you probably won't get in. You can spend hundreds of dollars, and chances are good if you get in a festival it'll probably be the one twenty miles from your house.

It has to be god's next gift to movie goers to get anywhere in festivals, if it's micro-budget with no names in it.

As for a distribution deal, I've been offered two. They'd have to sell about 30 to 40 thousand for me to see a dime. Yet, they just have to sell a few hundred to start seeing a tiny profit. So, I refused them both. Us Sinners at this hour is the #5 slasher rental at Amazon.com (which means I sold one copy). You'd think people would rent from Amazon, they don't. Us Sinners was #97 two hours ago, now it's #3. But, I've made more money ($1) off that rental, then I'd ever see from one of the distribution deals I was offered.

The atmosphere of theatres keeps me away from going to the movies. I lived in the movies up till about 1995. It's just not enjoyable anymore for me. Some guy in PA got pissed at a family talking, he shot the father. Unfortunately he only wounded him.

"I can't remember the last time someone was acting inappropriate in the theater - even on a cell phone. If they did do that, I would say something."

I want to live in your town. But, please come to central Jersey or a NYC theatre. See how much fun it is. The only movies we go to now is PIXAR and occasionally Disney, because my wife loves them. Luckily there's usually no one in the theatre. The Simpsons: people talking on cells, sitting in the aisle, walking around while the movie was on (no not going for popcorn) just walking... This was the day it opened. Don't say complain to management, because this is the best and true: We went opening night to see The Incredibles at our neighborhood multi-plex. When the kids are alone and being chased, the film broke. There wasn't a manager or technician in the place. The kid that sweeps the floors had to give everyone (there weren't that many people there) coupons to come back another day.

indietalk
02-24-2009, 02:37 AM
No not at all, I was referring to UsSinners' posts where he discusses distributors. If you make films simply for the art of entering festivals, then cool, it's still a hobby (and an art)-unless you don't work at a job and film making is the only thing you do. A hobby is something you do on the side (the passion level is up to the individual, not by definition). If US Sinners makes films for a living, than it's a business, yes? Most small businesses have stemmed from hobbies, so yes, there IS a strong correlation between hobby and a business. But, we're getting away from my original point, which I evidently did not articulate well. I was not trying to compare a hobby versus an art. I was simply going along the lines of UsSinners statement discussing the business aspect:
I'm aware of hobbies that become businesses, I dabble in a few things myself, but when one of them is an art, to me, that is separate from hobby and business, if it is one of your passions. You can brew beer as a hobby and turn it into a career, sure. You can make films, and films cost money. Most young filmmakers won't see a return on their investment. Not seeing that return does not mean hobby. However, you can treat an art as a hobby; bands just for fun, non-serious filmmakers, paint by number. Confused? ;) Just my 2 cents :)

EvsFX08
02-24-2009, 05:31 AM
The atmosphere of theatres keeps me away from going to the movies. I lived in the movies up till about 1995. It's just not enjoyable anymore for me. Some guy in PA got pissed at a family talking, he shot the father. Unfortunately he only wounded him.



I want to live in your town. But, please come to central Jersey or a NYC theatre. See how much fun it is. The only movies we go to now is PIXAR and occasionally Disney, because my wife loves them. Luckily there's usually no one in the theatre. The Simpsons: people talking on cells, sitting in the aisle, walking around while the movie was on (no not going for popcorn) just walking... This was the day it opened. Don't say complain to management, because this is the best and true: We went opening night to see The Incredibles at our neighborhood multi-plex. When the kids are alone and being chased, the film broke. There wasn't a manager or technician in the place. The kid that sweeps the floors had to give everyone (there weren't that many people there) coupons to come back another day.


LOL! I'm from Jersey myself, so I completely know what you're talking about. If you ask someone to keep it down, they look at you as if YOU'RE wrong and that's usually followed up with a racial slur or some other threatening or derogatory comment. Hmmm, we're both from Jersey, maybe that's why I was a little hard on you. He-He. To be honest, other than Wildwood, Seaside Heights, or AC, I really have no desire to go back to Jersey. It's too expensive and driving is easier (and safer) in Baghdad. :lol:

WeightOnWheels
02-24-2009, 08:22 AM
We submitted to about 40 festivals and got into 4, and it was well worth the experience. We got about 150 people to watch our movie that would not have watched it otherwise and we sold about 20 copies of the dvd at the different screenings.

We had a blast. We also watched a bunch of incredible films.

All in all, we spent about 3 grand which was included in the budget. This was our first feature so our main objective was to get the movie to as many people as possible to spread our name. The more people that see it, the better. Maybe for our future features we'll make some money. :)

ussinners
02-24-2009, 01:29 PM
"mmm, we're both from Jersey, maybe that's why I was a little hard on you. He-He. To be honest, other than Wildwood, Seaside Heights, or AC, I really have no desire to go back to Jersey. It's too expensive and driving is easier (and safer) in Baghdad. "

I got to Jersey the long way. From Long Island, to NYC, to Jersey. We bought in Jersey because it's impossible to afford Long Island anymore. Where do you live now?

"All in all, we spent about 3 grand which was included in the budget. "

I just have to ask, did you spend $3,000 on entering festivals alone? Or did that include travel expenses etc to get to these festivals. Copies that were needed for play at the festivals?

BTW: At 11am today Us Sinners is the #1 Slasher Rental at Amazon On Demand. (I sold two copies). I actually have a jpg of it as my avatar at myspace. Numbers can be so deceiving. A really cool thing is Psycho is #2.

WeightOnWheels
02-24-2009, 02:34 PM
I just have to ask, did you spend $3,000 on entering festivals alone? Or did that include travel expenses etc to get to these festivals. Copies that were needed for play at the festivals?



It included travel expenses for the director and myself. The copies were just dvd copies, so it cost nothing.

EvsFX08
02-24-2009, 02:57 PM
Relocated to Alabama where I bought a 2800sqft , 4bdr, 3 bath, 2 car garage brand new home for 195K. It would be about 500K in Jersey (if not more). Property Taxes were $568 this year. You won't see that in a one bedroom cottage in Jersey.

ussinners
02-25-2009, 12:06 AM
Wow, what you'll pay in taxes the next ten years, is what we pay every year.

Raf - I hope you do make more money in the future, and make films that are watched by millions.

If I can just use your situation as an example (If I had a job and money I'd use my own. But I don't, so I can't).

You entered 40 festivals and got into 4 which is 10%. That's a great ratio. I also just watched your trailer which is excellent. Usually when you see micro-budget trailers you can tell the acting is going to be pretty poor, but everyone and everything seems to be on the mark.

I see you're from Hartford and you got into the Hartford festival. That should almost be a given. Festivals close to home are the best for micro-budget people. You're probably much more outgoing then me, so when your movie played you probably met people, hung out and made contacts. So, in that respect festivals can be a great thing. I know a few people who are friends with festival promoters and just have to give them their work and it's shown.

But, for the amount of money you spent (3 grand or even 2) you could have rented a theatre, heavily advertised and had your own showing. There was a great theatre in NYC "The Pioneer" that used to give new film makers a showing for free. But, they've gone out of business. My friend had a showing, he did nothing as far as advertising and still had about 20 viewers. People are under the impression that it's extremely expensive to put on a showing, but it's not.

Just think about this: 99% of all independent movie houses (there aren't many left, but there's enough) will rent out the theatre hourly, and many of these are equipped with DVD projectors.

Multi-Plexs usually have a theatre that they rent (these are also equipped with projectors). I know the ones in my area do all the time. Edison is Bollywood in the US.

If you have a two hour movie. You rent for three hours.

They should have a place to put a poster. So you buy 1 or 2 large posters. They can be done at Kinkos. If it's up for a while, patrons going to other shows see your poster.

How much does it cost to have 1000 post cards made? You put these by the poster.

8 x10 or 11 x 14 posters to put in business windows. You see this all the time for musicians, they will do it for film makers also.

There's writing a press release and send it to every paper in that immediate and surrounding area. Invite reviewers, they might not show up, but maybe they will.

Utilizing the internet for publicity. I just got a review from a site (an excellent one) and I could have just said thank you. Instead I offered to do an interview if he wanted. In one day he wrote the questions and this afternoon I answered. I don't know how many people will read it. But, I can say this, more then if I didn't ask.

Festivals can work, but there's a myth and mystique that you finish your movie and jump into the festival circuit. That might be true if you have the talent in your million dollar indie production, but it's not true for the micro-budget movie-maker. We need to be more creative in how we get our movies to the public. And the possibilities are wide open. Look at what the net has done to the music industry. Once the public can download a movie in 5 minutes instead of 5 or 10 hours, theatres and Blockbuster's door will start to shut.

directorik
02-25-2009, 02:21 AM
For my movie “dark crimes” I spent $980 on entry fees, screeners
and postage, 50 t-shirts, 200 fliers, 300 post cards and six,
standard one sheets to enter 20 festivals. I got accepted into 7
and won awards at 3. The producer and I spent another $2,400
(roughly) in transportation, meals and lodging to attended 3 out
of town festivals. 2 fests where right here in Los Angeles.

I had $1,500 in the budget for festivals so not counting the out
of pocket expenses the producer and I chose to spend, we came in
under budget. We felt that festivals were very important to the
marketing of our movie which is why we set aside $1,500 to enter.

I understand your suggestions for a public screening ussinners.
But if you saw posters in business windows for a movie made by a
local filmmakers you didn’t know and starring actors you’ve never
heard of, you wouldn’t pay to see it.

I think most people are just like you. That’s why we chose not to
rent a theater for a paying audience. We chose to spend the money
on festival fees.

Like most movies entered in festivals, ours didn’t get
distribution. But that “myth and mystique” you mention of
finishing a movie and jumping right into the festival circuit was
very valuable to us. We didn’t have a million dollar indie
production - we had a micro-budget movie with no name stars. We
won some awards which was a nice ego boost (and looks nice on the
DVD box), met and had meetings with several distributors and
producers, had fun at a couple of Q&A’s, saw the movie in theaters
with paying audiences and even saw it projected on the screen at
the Chinese Theater in Hollywood. And we saw some excellent movies
and met some great fellow filmmakers.

Sure, three of the screenings has less than 30 people, but we had
two screenings with over 200.

I’m really glad I entered festivals. I suspect if you had had an
excellent experience at The Spooky Movie Red Eye Marathon and had
been accepted at a few other fests, you would have a different
opinion of film festivals.

Just another personal opinion.

WeightOnWheels
02-25-2009, 08:06 AM
ditto

Had a great time with the Q&A's and the people we met were priceless.

"You entered 40 festivals and got into 4 which is 10%. That's a great ratio. I also just watched your trailer which is excellent. Usually when you see micro-budget trailers you can tell the acting is going to be pretty poor, but everyone and everything seems to be on the mark."

Thank you ussinners. We spent a long time trying to find the right people for the parts. Especially because they did all for free.

M1chae1
02-25-2009, 11:40 AM
That was a cute trailer. Very high quality for the budget. I'm not sure where it sits right now, but good luck with it.

WeightOnWheels
02-25-2009, 11:51 AM
That was a cute trailer. Very high quality for the budget. I'm not sure where it sits right now, but good luck with it.

Thanks. I think. Were you talking about Cornelius? Well... If not, thanks anyways.:)

EvsFX08
02-25-2009, 11:51 AM
There is a very good article in this month's Creative Cow magazine on this whole Thread of attending festivals and experiences with festivals. I think the last paragraph of the article is a pretty good statement about attending festivals. You might be able to view it online. The advert is "Harry Pallenberg looks at his foray into the world of Film Festival Magic. It's both funny and informative." Just FYI, it was good reading. www.creativecow.net

ad2478
03-10-2009, 12:12 PM
Well the discussion has been great and I am loving it. Just few days back I heard about a local film festival KARA FIL Fest (Pakistan) thatís some of their awards are not honestly given because they have to attract internationals film community. Ok I can agree at this level because the terrorism etc scene going on here needs tactics like that. But it is hard to believe that a fest at any place like US or any other will have these type of tactics. I also believe that the first thing for the FEST MANAGEMENT is money and after all it is the truth of life that you need money for your bread and butter first. With empty stomach you cant think of Arts and Craft (sorry if some one is hurt) and may be the Fest MAMNAG didnít had believe in your movie. I personally will love to go to a FILM FEST but when it comes to my own film I will personally rely on self distribution rather then looking at some one else to sell my movie. The only advantage I think an indie filmmaker can get from FILM FEST is that he can make contacts and if the movies is good he can create a buzz of his name(in the list of potential filmmaker), and ifÖif ucky he might get a deal but it looks too hard these days. .

JNoonan
04-29-2009, 02:14 PM
The festival circuit is a tough game. Every festival is different and every year of operation is different. As someone who has been involved with both filmmaking and festivals, I have been seen both ends of this. I was involved with multiple movies that couldn't get into a festival to save a life, and I was involved in another movie that years later, still gets invited to festivals because it fills seats, but the latter movie never even officially entered any of the festivals it screened at -- it was being invited while still in production, because of the genre.

As a part of festival, one of the most difficult decisions the screening and programming committee is confronted with is the final selection. Every year, there just isn't enough time to show every movie a festival would like to show.

In one way or another I have been a part of festivals that screen for the pure love of the art form and do not conform to what will simply fill seats, and I have seen the other side as well as a filmmaker. It's been interesting to say the least.

M1chae1
04-30-2009, 03:03 PM
We should all keep in mind that not only are we supporting one another by going to festivals (of all types), but we are learning more about film making than when we watch a big-budget film.

We were talking last night about this...and I agree...you can't really learn how to make good films by watching hugely budgeted films...sure, you get the basic concepts, and some cool ideas...but it's when you watch a low to no-budget film, that's when you learn how to do what you do on a limited budget. Money is replaced with creativity on indie productions. Want to learn how to do a certain shot with certain restrictions...watch an indie film, not a blockbuster.

There is so much to learn from independent films...films that have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Films that aren't controlled by investors or producers (for the most part)...films that take chances. Films that have massive budgetary restrictions...you can learn so much from them.

It's almost like a wine class...learning the traits of a good wine. When at first you learn, they put three liquids out in front of you...they put sugar water, lemon juice, and overly steeped tea...when you try each one, you get an exaggerated taste of what qualities wine holds, as well as the glaring flavors that produce bad wines--tannins, acids...ect.

My odd point being, that while watching independent films, we sometimes get an exaggerated example of what TO DO and what NOT TO DO. Sometimes we get subtle flavors, and sometimes we get puckering responses, or mouth watering complexity.

I really try to see festivals in my area. A good thing about New England, is many of the 'name' indie production companies know each other...and for the most part we support one another when screenings take place, or premieres are held. Sometimes it's cliquee...but overall it's good sympatico (sp?)...

Yes there is a lot of crap...but sometimes you run into some diamonds, and when you do this it gives you not only the opportunity to learn and support...but also to network and potentially share resources...especially at our level, which is always nice.