View Full Version : indoor microphone


movieman1005
02-04-2009, 09:10 PM
I found out i pro. want a hyper cardoiod pattern, and on other blogs the two main ones around 500 (give or take some $) and are the rode nt3 and oktavia mk-012. However, does the oktavia need phantom power? I dont know what to use for phantom power, buit, according to you all, it's something to avoid. Alos, I cannot find a site to possibly purchase it in the u.s., or if it comes with all those capsules or if those are bought seperatly. Is the rode better, or easier? Any other good indoor mics, or im buyin because ive spent enough hours on this. I f I also get a xlr to mini plug cable, homemade boom pole, headphones I already have, is that all I really need? Ill prob. be working with consumer camcorder with mic input. Please just tell me what I should buy!

thefilmgeek
02-08-2009, 04:23 PM
I'll toss you a few thoughts I have on the microphone issue. However, I'm not an expert.

I went with the Rode NTG-3, which is a shotgun microphone. I use it for outdoor and indoor, and I've had no issues with it at all. The best thing about this specific microphone is that it is, as far as sound quality and reception goes, nearly identical to the Sennheiser MK-416, which of course was the shotgun of choice for years for a lot of people. The Rode NTG-3 is cheaper, so there's no reason to get the MK-416.

I think I'd use a hyper-cardioid if I was doing like a street interview, or something of that nature, personally. I've found the shotgun to be more than adequate for all filming situations that I do (mostly narrative).

Phantom power is something that will be supplied to your microphone from whatever you plug it into, if that specific piece of equipment has phantom power. If it's a consumer camcorder, odds are it will not have phantom power (in my experience, that is).

As far as 'what you should buy', yes a microphone on a boom pole and earphones to monitor with from the source is about all you need for sound, it's all I use or my sound guy will use when recording.

In the end, it's really up to what you want, and what you can fit into your budget. Obviously you want the best bang for your buck.

directorik
02-09-2009, 10:44 AM
Are specifically NOT looking for a shotgun mic? Are you looking for
a mic that is used ONLY for vocal recording?

movieman1005
02-09-2009, 09:30 PM
I think so. Basically a filmmaking mic. for indoors, although, if I find out how, I may want to somehow record a little ambient noise, but now it's focusing mostly on vocies, yes, if that was your ?

directorik
02-10-2009, 01:57 AM
Both the Rode NT3 and Oktavia MK-012 are vocal mics. These are used
for recording singers in a studio. They need to be an inch or less from
the performer.

These mic's are not good for filmmaking.

indietalk
02-10-2009, 02:40 AM
Rode NTG-3, not NT-3 rik. It's a shotgun.

directorik
02-10-2009, 11:07 AM
The NTG-3 is a shotgun. And not a bad mic.

I was talking about the two mics movieman mentioned - the Rode NT3 and Oktavia MK-012

indietalk
02-10-2009, 07:41 PM
Oh yeah. Hopefully that's a typo, unless he's coming out with a record ;)

movieman1005
02-15-2009, 05:42 PM
so you guys are saying that, even for indoors, rode nt3 and oktavia are NOT for filmmaking? On other blogs I get that impression, but maybe i'm wrong. The links below are what i am talking about. So would the ntg3 be best for filmmaing primarily indoors?

http://www.wondervisionpictures.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360
http://forums.studentfilms.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2246029451/m/3951035024

indietalk
02-15-2009, 05:48 PM
NT-3 is a singing or instrument mic (possibly ADR). Maybe you mean NTG-3.

I can personally vouch for this mic: AT835b

directorik
02-16-2009, 01:19 AM
It might be important to define “filmmaking”.

The Rode NT3 is a vocal mic. It is made for singers in a studio or
on stange. It must be held inches away from the mouth. For
filmmaking, in a studio setting, (not a sound stage) doing ADR or
recording some sound efx, it can be a fine mic.

On a set or location this mic is not good for recording dialogue while
the camera is running. Again, the mic must be very, very close to
the speaker - less than one inch - so it isn’t good for shooting a movie.

So, if by “filmmaking” you mean recording dialogue while shooting on
set indoors, this mic is not what you need. If by “filmmaking” you mean
post production audio, this mic is fine.

movieman1005
02-16-2009, 04:25 PM
yes, sorry i wasnt clear. I did mean for filming on location with a camera, or "on the set"/

movieman1005
02-16-2009, 04:29 PM
indietalk, the mic ur referring to, the AT835b is a good mic for filming dialogue with a camera indoors when shooting a film?

indietalk
02-16-2009, 04:32 PM
indietalk, the mic ur referring to, the AT835b is a good mic for filming dialogue with a camera indoors when shooting a film?
Yes, with a good boom operator.

directorik
02-16-2009, 09:34 PM
yes, sorry i wasnt clear. I did mean for filming on location with a camera, or "on the set"/
It's cool.

That's what I thought. So my advice stands. The mic's you mention are not
good for filmmaking. Indoors or outdoors. What you are looking for is a shotgun
mic. That in itself is a generic term that means any long barreled mic. You
want a good condenser (externally powered) mic with a “lobar” pick up pattern
to put on your boom pole. Lobar pick up means the mic focuses its audio pick
up to a narrow area. This is why you want to use a boom pole to get the mic
as close the the actor as possible - you’ll get clean dialogue tracks with less
ambient noise.

movieman1005
02-17-2009, 05:26 PM
Thanks for all the help! I guess all those other posts are incorrect. If I order that, make a boom pole, get a converter cable (xlr to mini for my camcorder) is that all I need? Also, wheres the best place to get the accesories. I'm thinking bout b and h for the mic itself, huh?

thefilmgeek
02-21-2009, 10:10 AM
B&H is a good place, it's where I purchase all my equipment.

wynnep
02-28-2009, 09:56 PM
Actually, the NT3 IS a good mic for filming. The pick up pattern for it is hypercardioid which is not as directional as an NTG 3 or MKH 416. Shotgun mics don't always sound good indoors.

The mics also sound quite good in terms of price to performance ratio

http://dvestore.com/theatre/mics_guide.html

This microphone shootout done by dvestore demonstrates the differences in performance. The NT3 and the MKH 416 (in my opinion) sound the best out of what was tested.

I know these microphones were awfully close to the VO person so here is a youtube video of some people using these mics for their cameras.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEa7uGyXl-8

This one was put on a boom about a foot and a half above the subject. Close but hardly a few inches in front of the mouth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T813-ugJfR8

Here is another example of the NT3 replacing someone's internal mic on a DVX100A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETX_nBG9zvU

This is another promo video from dvestore explaining why hypercadioid in some ways is better than shotgun for indoor use. (I'd like to state that I have no association with them, they just have the videos that are easiest to prove my point).

If you look you'll find other videos like these all over the internet.

For professional broadcast or film audio it's not unusual for an audio guy to carry

Lav mics - for wide shots that would expose a boom mic (if you don't just ADR it)
Hypercardioid mics - for indoor environments
short and long shotgun mics - for outdoor or indoor

The truth is a lot of schools (even some film schools) beat the idea of a boomed shotgun mic so thoroughly into students heads that they assume any other way is wrong.

Granted you still need a shotgun mic for the outdoors but for indoors I wouldn't hesitate for a second to pick a good hypercardioid microphone over a shotgun (be careful however when booming, hyper mics are usually heavier than shotguns).

Alter Ego Productions
03-01-2009, 12:28 PM
For professional broadcast or film audio it's not unusual for an audio guy to carry

Lav mics - for wide shots that would expose a boom mic (if you don't just ADR it)
Hypercardioid mics - for indoor environments
short and long shotgun mics - for outdoor or indoor

The truth is a lot of schools (even some film schools) beat the idea of a boomed shotgun mic so thoroughly into students heads that they assume any other way is wrong.

Granted you still need a shotgun mic for the outdoors but for indoors I wouldn't hesitate for a second to pick a good hypercardioid microphone over a shotgun (be careful however when booming, hyper mics are usually heavier than shotguns).

Excellent advice and spot on. Different shots will call for different techniques and mics. It is best to have a kit of the above available during production.

movieman1005
03-11-2009, 09:32 PM
so if I film while picking up dialogue, an nt3 is ok for that? The indoor locations will have fairly small rooms, like an average house. That's okay? Just one more thing, too. I looked up some of the other sugg. that other people gave me, like the ntg series, etc. In their product descriptions they say they're good for indoors. Should I get this instead so I can use it outside, too, or is the nt3 (or hypercardiod) the best? Thanks 4 da help, and sorry for all the questions. I keep getting contradicting advice, and I do not know what to believe and go wiith.

directorik
03-12-2009, 01:44 AM
You are getting conflicting advice because you are unclear with
your question. The NT3 has a wide pic up pattern. It’s fine for
“indoor” use. So that answer is correct. But the NT3 must be
quite close to the actor. That makes it excellent for Voice Over
use, for example. Watch the video wynnep suggested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETX_nBG9zvU

When the NT3 is very close to the speaker it sounds great. So if
by “indoor” mic you mean a mic the speaker will hold in their
hand a few inches from their mouth (like the woman sitting in the
chair) or put on a stand a few inches from their mouth (like the
woman in the studio) then that’s the mic for you. Watch the
video. Is this the way you will use the mic?

As soon as you move it out of frame it will sound like the
sequence in that video with the woman sitting and reading without
a mic close to her. A good shotgun mic will sound good from that
distance.

If you can afford two mics - a shotgun with a lobar pick up and a
vocal mic with a hypercardiod pick up then buy both of them. If
you cannot afford both, buy a shotgun mic.

Check out THIS EXAMPLE (http://www.darkcrimes.com/movies/AudioExample.mov) What you will hear is a Sennheiser
shotgun mic used indoors. The first part has a lot of camera
movement - which means the boom op had to move the mic
around a lot. Something that couldn't be done with the NT3.
In the second part you see standard close ups. The mic was
above the actors, just out of frame. If you feel the audio isn't
good then the NT3 is your best choice. If it sounds okay to
you then you can try a shotgun mic.

movieman1005
03-12-2009, 05:24 AM
Ok. Srry I wasn't clear.it would b out of the shot, unnoticable. Like a fiction movie. Where's it's out of the shot but recording audio like on a boompole. Hope that is clear enough.ask more if needed. So it looks like a shotgun would b the best option for my situation?

directorik
03-12-2009, 10:46 AM
I've been saying since my first post that a shotgun mic with a lobar
pick up pattern is the type of mic you need for making movies. Both
indoor and outdoor. So my advice is still the same.

I think what's confusing you is the answers you get regarding an
"indoor" mic. To many people an "indoor" mic means a studio mic
like the link wynnp posted. Did you take a look at the clip I linked to?
Did the mic used indoors sound okay to you? That was recorded
with a shotgun mic.

indietalk
03-12-2009, 03:14 PM
You didn't buy one after all this? ;)
If you are buying one mic for all your shots, buy a shotgun. If you want to experiment with other mics for different situations, go for it. But don't buy one mic to experiment with that won't serve the rest of your film.

movieman1005
03-12-2009, 09:35 PM
I know, I'm pathetic. I need to just go with it now, and now I understand it more. It's much more clear now, its just it conflicted a lot and I wanted to make absolute sure I was making the best possible decision, and that I'm hopefully more specific on my needs. Shotgun it is, now the ?, which one. I am very close on this, but let me just get complete personel opinions (because I'm obviously not always the best at making decisions clearly.) at835b or at897? that answer compared to ntg2? I think the ntg3 is pushing my budget a little, and it doesnt have the option of battery power, just phantom, which is an issue. It seems like itlll be one of those, and I''m going to plan on ordering this weekend. I just need to do it. No more time unsure and pushing it off. It leaves less time for the most imprtantr element, MAKING THE MOVIES. I just need to leave it all behind and go with it./ It may not turn out perfect, but It'll all be fine I'm sure. Sorry, had to get it all out there. phew. thanks, peace, and if ur too frusterated with me, just diss me and I'll pick based on pure instinct. PEACE.
p.s. By the way, I am working on a very short film with no dialogue. Hope to get critique on it from u when I am finished and release it. ;)

Alcove Audio
03-15-2009, 02:33 AM
I'm not going to get into specific models - everyone has their preferences.

Shotgun mics are usually not the best choice for indoors. When shotguns are used by indie filmmakers indoors, they tend to get that hollow "roomy" sound. Because of their narrow directionality shotguns only pick up what is directly in front of them. This means that besides picking up the dialog directly from the talent, it also will pick up the sound "bouncing" around the room; the actors voice reflects off of the wood floor, hits the ceiling, then the wall behind the crew, then into the mic. But it also bounces off of the side wall, into the ceiling, off the floor and into the mic, and hundreds of other variations. These reflected sounds arrive at the microphone "late" by micro and milliseconds, creating and echo or reverb. That's why it is better to use a non-shotgun cardioid mic indoors, it mitigates this problem.

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