I spend all my time thinking of ways to use no music and to find royalty-free music (I haven't found one song I would consider using in my shorts). What kind of money are we talking to purchase the rights to use music in a film? I'm sure it varies, but can anyone give some ballpark estimations? Can anyone share an experience where they purchased the rights?
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Cost of using music in films. Can anyone share experiences?
- Thread starter Dutchboy
- Start date
The cost is all over the place. It depends on if you're wanting to purchase pre-composed library tracks (aka "stock music," "canned music," or "library music," which I don't recommend), of if you're wanting to hire a composer to produce an original score for your film.
Library tracks come in many shapes, sizes, and prices. You may get trash or amazing-sounding music. You might pay $3 for a track or several hundred dollars for an entire library of hours and hours of music. The downside of library tracks is, though, that this music was not intended for your film. It might seem to go well enough, but very few factors are adjustable (the timing, pacing, where the music lines up with the action on screen, the specific emotion conveyed in the music, etc.). It's the McDonald's of music for film. Fast, usually cheap, quick fix, and overall unhealthy. Why settle for something that almost fits?
Composers, too, come in all shapes and sizes. Some will work for free, especially if they're fairly new to the industry and are just looking for experience. Others will charge tens of thousands of dollars. (The industry standard is around $1,000-$1,500 per finished minute of music.) When I work on a project, my fee is determined by a number of factors:
* The budget for the project (It makes no sense for me to charge $2,000 when the entire film's budget was $1,000, now does it?)
* How much music is needed
* Style of music needed
* Deadline (good, fast, cheap ... pick any two!)
* Potential distribution for the project (for instance, a student thesis film vs. a nationally-broadcast commercial)
* Estimated expenses (usually very low for shorts and small independent projects)
For student projects, I'm usually willing to work for very little if I have the time, just so that the student will get the experience of working with a composer. Unfortunately, even in top film schools, most students are not taught that the process of adding music to their film is a collaborative process, not a cut-paste hack job of downloaded junk bought online for $20. Did great films like "Star Wars," "Indiana Jones," and "The Matrix" have music that someone found and downloaded online and slapped in there?
If you decide to use original music, remember to set aside a portion of your film's budget for the music. Time and time again, filmmakers ask me to score their film, and they're already over budget. Because scoring a film is often near the end of the film making process, film makers often are out of money and assume that music grows on trees. Remember, composers do this for a living, no different from the actors, DP, and editors that have worked on the film up to this point.
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Library tracks come in many shapes, sizes, and prices. You may get trash or amazing-sounding music. You might pay $3 for a track or several hundred dollars for an entire library of hours and hours of music. The downside of library tracks is, though, that this music was not intended for your film. It might seem to go well enough, but very few factors are adjustable (the timing, pacing, where the music lines up with the action on screen, the specific emotion conveyed in the music, etc.). It's the McDonald's of music for film. Fast, usually cheap, quick fix, and overall unhealthy. Why settle for something that almost fits?
Composers, too, come in all shapes and sizes. Some will work for free, especially if they're fairly new to the industry and are just looking for experience. Others will charge tens of thousands of dollars. (The industry standard is around $1,000-$1,500 per finished minute of music.) When I work on a project, my fee is determined by a number of factors:
* The budget for the project (It makes no sense for me to charge $2,000 when the entire film's budget was $1,000, now does it?)
* How much music is needed
* Style of music needed
* Deadline (good, fast, cheap ... pick any two!)
* Potential distribution for the project (for instance, a student thesis film vs. a nationally-broadcast commercial)
* Estimated expenses (usually very low for shorts and small independent projects)
For student projects, I'm usually willing to work for very little if I have the time, just so that the student will get the experience of working with a composer. Unfortunately, even in top film schools, most students are not taught that the process of adding music to their film is a collaborative process, not a cut-paste hack job of downloaded junk bought online for $20. Did great films like "Star Wars," "Indiana Jones," and "The Matrix" have music that someone found and downloaded online and slapped in there?
If you decide to use original music, remember to set aside a portion of your film's budget for the music. Time and time again, filmmakers ask me to score their film, and they're already over budget. Because scoring a film is often near the end of the film making process, film makers often are out of money and assume that music grows on trees. Remember, composers do this for a living, no different from the actors, DP, and editors that have worked on the film up to this point.
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There are literally millions of songs, by tens of thousands (both signed & unsigned) musicians up on YouTube & MySpace.
There must be something you like, out of those choices.
In my last project, we used songs by several artists found there. All we did was ask for permission from them, and give a nice mention in the closing credits. I don't think a single band told us to sod off. All it cost was the time to write a polite e-mail request, and a couple of bucks to cover the costs of postage (for the simple release form, on paper)
On another part of the project, it was decided to use generic stock music. Three tracks were picked from StockMusic.net - you get what you pay for, but the cost was very low for a license in perpetuity.
On yet another part (these were all segments, so needs were different for all), a composer was hired to score about 18 minutes. Done via CraigsList, about 100 responses in less than a day.
The music is out there - both for existing tracks, and composers looking for original challenges.
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ComposerAlex makes some good points (especially regarding stock music).
Original scoring is definitely the best way to go - it really adds a lot.
Composers have a lot of competition, though. Just take a look in these forums, for example, in the Classifieds. There are more ads/posts for composers than you can shake a stick at... and I have a pretty big stick! *
I don't want to say that composers are a dime a dozen, but there's certainly no shortage of talented musicians looking for projects.
Find tracks you think are suitable, and ask for permissions. You'll be surprised at what you get.
Also, if you go a CraigsList route for an original composer, be upfront & honest about what the gig pays & entails. Your inbox will be flooded with replies & leads, even if you plainly state there's a budget of zero. You won't be getting the top-of-the-cream pros, but you will be hearing from a wide selection of musicians (along with all their websites, links to other projects, etc to give you an idea of their talents).
* Well, that's what I tell the ladies, at any rate
Zensteve is right; for some reason, it seems like there are tons of composers looking for work, especially online. With the number of film projects going on at any given time, I'm not totally sure why it's an issue. Like I said before, I think part of it lies with the fact that proportionately, so few independent filmmakers consider using original music. I've worked with several directors who have never worked with a composer before, and most of them say it's because it never occurred to them to do anything but use existing music! As a composer, and as a film lover, I find that heartbreaking! 
Another part of it is that we're kind of independent from the rest of the film making process, with the obvious exception of musicals and planned source music for the sets. I mean, we come in to the picture (no pun intended) in mid/late post-production, and we do our own thing at that! Generally, we're not there when the script is written, pre-production, shooting, editing (except in special cases), etc. Once the picture is in its rough cut or locked is when we come in! And then, we work with the director, producer, and/or editor ONLY. We're also some of the last people to see the project before it's in its final form.
When I score projects, I rarely get to talk with, let alone meet, the rest of the cast and crew besides the director, producer, and perhaps editor, unless there's a cast/crew party.
Anyway, Craig's List isn't the only place you can post a wanted ad. There are numerous places online, of varying quality and reliability. I don't know what the film/film music scene is like around Florida, because it's different everywhere. Zensteve is in Hollywood, so it's absolutely no surprise that he gets 100+ responses a day. Here in NC, I'm only aware of 2-3 other serious film composers in the state. There could be more, but I seriously doubt there are more than 10-15, tops.
You may find a great local composer. I know the University of Miami has a Media Scoring and Production program that pumps out a dozen or so (?) students every year, some of whom are bound to still live in Florida. Maybe you could contact the school; I'm sure the students there would love to work on a non-school project, and some of them would probably do it just for practice. The head of the program there is Raoul Merciano ... not sure how to spell his name, though! Dennis Kam is the head of the music composition department, so he might be a good contact, too.
But if you don't find a good local composer, you might consider working with a composer in another part of the country. It sounds difficult, but it's really not. We have digital phone, cell phones, text messaging, instant messaging, e-mail, online file transfers, DVD burners, overnight shipping, and of course, PayPal! I live in NC, and it's no problem for me to score an indie project that's in CA (done it!).
Anyway, as is the risk in nearly any free venture, the quality of work you'll get, and the quality of the end product, is most likely going to be lower than if you simply hired a professional composer. If you looked up a building contractor in the phone book, called, and they said "Hey, we'll build your house for free! We've only built two houses, and we're just working for the experience," wouldn't you be a little skeptical? Or, if you called a plumber and told them what you needed done, and they said "Give me a good 40-hour week to get it done, no problem! It's what I do,"you'd probably question the quality of work he or she does, right?
Or, liken it to actors. There are plenty of actors out there who are willing to work for free, but on the whole, compare the freebies to the pros that charge. Same thing goes for any other role in the film making process ... and most jobs in general, for that matter!
That being said, working with a composer who's not charging is almost definitely going to be better for both you and them in the long run. You'll both gain valuable experience and learn how to collaborate. Even if the score turns out terrible, and the film suffers as a result (worst case scenario, right?), ideally you both will know WHY that happened and how to prevent it! But it seems to me that even a bad film score, within reason (i.e. no pounding, razor-sharp action music during a soap opera) can't be that much worse than stock music pasted into the film!
Another part of it is that we're kind of independent from the rest of the film making process, with the obvious exception of musicals and planned source music for the sets. I mean, we come in to the picture (no pun intended) in mid/late post-production, and we do our own thing at that! Generally, we're not there when the script is written, pre-production, shooting, editing (except in special cases), etc. Once the picture is in its rough cut or locked is when we come in! And then, we work with the director, producer, and/or editor ONLY. We're also some of the last people to see the project before it's in its final form.
When I score projects, I rarely get to talk with, let alone meet, the rest of the cast and crew besides the director, producer, and perhaps editor, unless there's a cast/crew party. Anyway, Craig's List isn't the only place you can post a wanted ad. There are numerous places online, of varying quality and reliability. I don't know what the film/film music scene is like around Florida, because it's different everywhere. Zensteve is in Hollywood, so it's absolutely no surprise that he gets 100+ responses a day. Here in NC, I'm only aware of 2-3 other serious film composers in the state. There could be more, but I seriously doubt there are more than 10-15, tops.
You may find a great local composer. I know the University of Miami has a Media Scoring and Production program that pumps out a dozen or so (?) students every year, some of whom are bound to still live in Florida. Maybe you could contact the school; I'm sure the students there would love to work on a non-school project, and some of them would probably do it just for practice. The head of the program there is Raoul Merciano ... not sure how to spell his name, though! Dennis Kam is the head of the music composition department, so he might be a good contact, too.
But if you don't find a good local composer, you might consider working with a composer in another part of the country. It sounds difficult, but it's really not. We have digital phone, cell phones, text messaging, instant messaging, e-mail, online file transfers, DVD burners, overnight shipping, and of course, PayPal!
I live in NC, and it's no problem for me to score an indie project that's in CA (done it!). Anyway, as is the risk in nearly any free venture, the quality of work you'll get, and the quality of the end product, is most likely going to be lower than if you simply hired a professional composer. If you looked up a building contractor in the phone book, called, and they said "Hey, we'll build your house for free! We've only built two houses, and we're just working for the experience," wouldn't you be a little skeptical? Or, if you called a plumber and told them what you needed done, and they said "Give me a good 40-hour week to get it done, no problem! It's what I do,"you'd probably question the quality of work he or she does, right?
Or, liken it to actors. There are plenty of actors out there who are willing to work for free, but on the whole, compare the freebies to the pros that charge. Same thing goes for any other role in the film making process ... and most jobs in general, for that matter!
That being said, working with a composer who's not charging is almost definitely going to be better for both you and them in the long run. You'll both gain valuable experience and learn how to collaborate. Even if the score turns out terrible, and the film suffers as a result (worst case scenario, right?), ideally you both will know WHY that happened and how to prevent it! But it seems to me that even a bad film score, within reason (i.e. no pounding, razor-sharp action music during a soap opera) can't be that much worse than stock music pasted into the film!
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