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Field audio recorder, or field mixer?

thefilmgeek

thefilmgeek

I've a question about mixers and audio recorders.

I'm going to be using the Edirol R-44 as my field recorder for audio, instead of doing it directly into my Canon XH A1. I've decided on recording through a Rode NTG-3, as well.

Will the Edirol R-44 function as a mixer as well, or will I have to purchase a mixer seperately and plug that up into the mic, and run THAT into the Edirol R-44?

Would it be more beneficial to my sound overall to just skip purchasing the Edirol, and get a mixer instead and record directly into the XH-A1?

My main goal here is professional level sound, as I feel that's nearly the most important thing.
 
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its a nice little machine and while it can do 24bit/48.048 and you can use it as a field mixer as well and then dump it into your computer...it DOES NOT have Timecode..so sync can be a problem for you....

if there is a place you can rent one for a day and do a test before you buy this...it would be money well spent...

if your software can do a pullup or pulldown with the files...then i would think you could get away without the timecode if you are lucky...

hope this helps
 
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As far as syncing the audio goes, doing it manually and correctly obviously will be tedious, but I don't feel that it's something that I couldn't do. It's not impossible to sync the audio without a timecode, right?

So, the Edirol R-44 will function as a mixer for me? I think what I'm mainly concerned with is, if I purchase the R-44, will I also need to buy a mixer for it, or will the R-44 itself function as both and be enough?
 
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For the entire existence of filmmaking people have been
syncing audio to the visual.

For those of us who started working with film and recording
using the good ol' Nagra, it seems odd that you video people
even see this as an issue. It's such a standard part of post
production. Though I do understand that because it's new
to you, it can seem confusing.

After you sit down and do it, you'll see. Use that clapper on
the slate and syncing will be a breeze.

Since the R44 has four channels, you can mix up to that many
without another machine. Do you think there will be many
times when you are using more than four mics?
 
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Actually, I will only be using a single microphone, a Rode NTG-3 shotgun. I don't actually need 4 channels, however this is the only decent recorder I've seen. If there was like a version of this Edirol R-44 that was only 1 channel, but the exact same thing for a lot less money, I'd buy that.

Until then, I'm just sticking with the 4 channel edirol. :( (wish I didn't have to spend so much cash on it)

I can't forsee ever seeing the next (or having the money in the near to late future to purchase) more than a single microphone set-up.

I honestly don't plan on doing anything with timecode, I'm just gonna sync manually with the slate as you said.
 
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directorik said:
For the entire existence of filmmaking people have been
syncing audio to the visual.

For those of us who started working with film and recording
using the good ol' Nagra, it seems odd that you video people
even see this as an issue. It's such a standard part of post
production. Though I do understand that because it's new
to you, it can seem confusing.
Click to expand...

i started with a nagra III and yes it is an issue...nagra used 60hz to synce to 24FPS...because it is in the same time frame...

if you record video in 29.97NDF and Audio in 30fpsNDF(which is what an old Nagra would record at) it wont sync...

BOTH picture and sound must be in the same TIME FRAME or it will drift out of SYNC...I worked with Bill Daly for over 8 years and he invented TimeCode...i learned plenty from that man and he is one of the Best Mixers I have every worked with...Bill invented the timecode clock for a Greatfull Dead concert that was going to shoot multiple cameras and didnt know how they would sync them all up without slates...he came up with the clock that ran at 30fpsND and all they had to do was pan over to it at any time to catch some numbers and and this is how it all started.
 
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Dave,

I plan on shooting the entire film in 24f (Canon's 24 progressive as you know).

Will there be anything special I'll need to do on the Edirol R-44 in order to get it to sync up properly with 24 frames per second video?
 
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well...24p progressive is actualy 23.976FPS...this is a new code...well not that new...but a lot of machines had to have upgrades as well as slates to do this...its not a problem as most newer recorders have this Timecode now and older ones have software updates for it...i have it in all mine now...

you will still need a recorder that will record in 23.976TC...if not...sync wont be held...i believe the recorder you are thinking of getting has no Code at all....and is nothing more than a flash card recorder...48kh and maybe a lower rate of 44.1 like old CD's...while this will record and reproduce at the same rate it was recorded..there will be a difference of fields...and this is where you will start to lose sync...the sound will start drifting from picture.

and for the old timers...if you were filming at 24fps and had a nagra with a 59.994 crystal in it...there would be no sync...this is the same thing in TC...windows of time need to match...
 
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Is there no way I can slow down the audio in post to match sync perfectly with the 24fps video footage? It seems like with all the technology available, and the capabilities of editing software, I should be able to do that, right?
 
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if you have the software to do it you will have to do a %pulldown...or you can send it out to have it done in a post house...but its going to cost you...

a lot of times for TV the film camera runs at 24fps...and for film i would record at 30fps(same window) but if it will be going to TV i have to record at 29.97 with a 1% pullup so it matches when it goes to video....if i did that and it went to Film...it would cost a lot of money to fix it...but if i went at 30fps and it went to Video...the cost would be cheaper as that would be a simple fix...some misstakes cost more than others....

you should speak to someone at a local Post House by you and they will be able to let you know what would be an easy fix for them if you cant get a machine with TimeCode...

take the time to get all the facts you need...you might end up just recording to your camera if things get too expensive...and do some tests first before you start shooting....
 
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I have the Adobe master collection CS4, and Audition as well, so there aren't any tools that a 'post house' would have, that I don't have access to.

I have just never had to slow down audio before, so that's really my question, is how it's done with any given software.

My work will be distributed over the internet, and on DVD burned here at my home, so all the work is done by me. Since my entire workflow is digital, there's nothing that I can't do myself, a post-house is sort of obsolete in this scenario. (that is unless you're lazy and want someone else to do all the work hehe :) )

I also have Final Cut Studio 2.0 as well on my mac.

Any of you folks have any experience with slowing down audio with either adobe products or final cut studio?
 
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As far as editing the audio for my film, that is mastering, cleaning it up, slowing it down to match 24fps sync... I'm looking at pro-tools, and I'm not seeing anything that Audition/Sountbooth won't be able to do for me (I already have those both).
 
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