So... I feel so nieve right now. At least I can take this as a learning experience....

So this 5 min film project we were given at uni, we had almost no limitations and could do what we wanted. Most people tend to do abstract art type things. I'm not interested in that I like narrative films. I decided to make a short which was 1 scene. The film is basicly a conversation between 2 people at an apartment front door. I planned to use this project to practice writing and filming dialog and creating characters in a short span of type. I wrote it up everything was ok, I worked out how I was gonna film it in my house to make it look like an apartment. Everything good to go. It was october my deadline was january 12th.

I dont know so many people in this city and my hometown where my friends are is too far away so I sent out an email to all the performance arts students at my uni. I needed a guy early 20s and a woman the same age who was pretty. I got no replies at all from guys so I figured I could do that myself since the camera is fixed on a tripod anyway (we have to do the filming ourselves). Several from women only 2 of them really looked right. I talked with them over several emails and they both liked my project idea and both wanted to do it. I tried to set up a meeting with one of them to talk about the project and show her script, thats when she stopped replying to all emails. The other was busy all the time but gave me her number, we spoke on the phone a lot about the project. I asked her if she will be free to do the project before christmas she said sure. By December 15th she tells me she cant and can only do it in january. I remind her my deadline jan 12th and we agreed we would do it in the first week of jan. I call her on Jan 2nd no answer... I text her on Jan 5th no reply... so now its the 8th and I have given up on meeting my deadline and am thinking what to say to my lecturers. They are pretty much gonna think I am some douche slacker who doesn't care about the course at all when I have ideas about film making, stories and scene ideas buzzing around my head constantly everyday. I just want to make a film but people keep letting me down... ugh.....................

Next year my final year I have to make a much longer film, 30-50 mins I think. I have tons of ideas for it but I find myself dreading it now worrying about flaky actors.

People just make me sick. Its like a couple hours max, just a rehersal then the filming. Then they get a short film of themselves acting that can be used in their portfolio, I said I would give them a copy on dvd aswell.....omg :-/

People who mess others around like this just need to die. I cant believe people can be so selfish.


I'm done ranting.

How did you present the project? Did you ask to meet in a public place or your place? You have to remember there are a lot of crazy people on the Internet and if you ask a woman to meet at your apartment and tell her you are the only actor, it could come across as suspicious.

I explained what the project was about in the email I sent out and explained it like I did above. I said to meet up in the uni cafe.

And no i'm not an internet psycho, i'm just frustrated right now

Hate actors? :eek:

I love 'em. http://zenweasel.com/images/smilies/smiley_hug.gif

Make the most of your university. Go see the director of the performing arts school, explain the project, the need to cast quickly, provide script/side copies, everything all prepared. There ought to be more actors (and actor-wannabes) available than you can shake a stick at, at a performing arts school.

Heck, if they're putting on plays there you could even shoot on the stage (unless it's some weird-ass set that makes no sense... but then again, it could make your film a little more surreal, too. That could be fun). That makes it super-convenient for everyone. Maybe even take advantage of the stage lights. :cool: You have a tonne of resources all around you.

You've only got a few days left. Get away from the computer, quit mopin'... and get it done. http://zenweasel.com/images/smilies/smiley_five.gif

Hey mate, I've had the same problem in the past. I'm in uni in well and basically have relied upon myself, close friends, and creating shorts that need a limited amount of actors. I'm working on my first film with more than 2 actors and am lucky to be at home over break for it where I know a ton of people. The only advice I can give is to write scripts with limited amounts of people. Then again you were only looking for one girl. That's rough. I hope it works out.

We did a school project and had the whole cast leave set before we got our first shot (they had a hockey game to get to :P ). We recast on the day and shot anyway. Dig your heels in, you still have time. I know for fact you can put together an 8 minute short in under 48 hours ;)

Don't be discouraged. Get your head down, stock up on caffeine, put yourself through the grind and get it done in the next few days. Back in high school we had to compose a several hundred page anthology in a month, and naturally I waited until the final week. I stayed up 3-4 days in a row with no sleep, got it done and turned it in...wasn't good, but I got it done.

My point is that if you turn SOMETHING in and THEN explain to your instructor your circumstances, it will go better than if you turn in nothing. Even if you fail or get a poor grade, 55-65% or whatever you get is worth a lot more than a zero.

And after the project comes and goes next week, chalk it up to a learning experience. Especially young people are irresponsible (especially college students). Check out some of the other threads on this forum that deal with professionalism because some great advice has been given by smart people here. Basically, the more professional you make your project seem, the more professional of an approach any collaborators will approach it with too.

Even if it's just a short student film, if you hold an audition, set deadlines, keep professional communication in emails and in conversation...your chances are better that your actors and others working with you will approach the project professionally and behave responsibly. If you act casually and treat the project like it's "just" a student film and not that big of a deal....others might treat it like not such a big deal either.

Hope it works out for you....good luck!

Getting actors as a student filmmaker isn't easy unless you've got friends who want to act or will act anyway regardless of what they want. Fuck it you could always just give up on trying to get uni theatre students to act in your film and become a video journalist filming in iraq or afganistan, you sound like you'd scare them off anyway,(in afghanistani) oh fuck that crazy psycho with a video cameras coming run, no shoot him, don't shoot him we can improve our portfolio, "but we're militia though" we better act in his film or else he's gonna get our ak 47's and shove them up our ass. I find it hard getting like one actor to turn up let alone two at the same time for scenes with more than one charcter in it. Thats why i'm glad i'm currently making a cg film, no annoying unreliable, shit faced wannabe theater actor performers not replying to your emails.

my deadline was january 12th.


I hope things turned out okay for you in the end! So ... how did things turn out???

It's a war story. Learn from it, I guess: many filmmakers here undoubtedly share your frustration! We try to create and organize this huge product ... and get shut down by actors or crew who (as you say) all they had to do was show up and give it a decent effort ... and even THAT's too much to ask.

It's frustrating NOW ... and it will be frustrating if you / we are ever lucky enough to do it PROFESSIONALLY. Many Actors seem to be Flakes, who knows why? Maybe learning a skill and a craft (as CREW and TECHIES must) weeds out the flakes among THEIR tribe ... but then too many Actors and Actresses get by on looks and ego? I dunno ...

EXPERIENCED Actors aren't such big flakes, probably for the same reason: they're the ones who stuck with their Art, their Skill, and people are willing to COUNT ON.

The hot chick who "wants to be an actress" ??? Today she wants to be an Actress, but the day of your shoot she wants to go shopping. :(

Anyway ...

1) You cannot give another person AMBITION or DEDICATION. They must already have it within themselves. You can "fire up" people who have the fuel inside to take your spark ... you cannot "fire up" the soggy or the useless.

2) You can have back up plans, you can re-schedule, you can make-do, you can improvise, you can re-write on envelopes and re-shoot on the run ... and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

But you cannot make someone who has promised to not let you down, not let you down after all. You cannot explain to your cast and crew of ten dedicated people ... why YOU as the Director "let this happen" that the one good-for-nothing Actress screwed you ALL.

So we live, and we learn, and we compensate all we can ... and sometimes we get hit unfairly and that's it.
That's showbiz.

FILMMAKING is COLLABORATION. Sooner or later, no matter how good YOU are ... the weak link in the chain betrays the whole chain.

Have you considered WRITING? You don't need anyone else to WRITE.

But then they will just find another way to screw you as a Writer ...

The Road of the Peyote is a Hard Road.

Musicians make music. Painters paint. they don't need nobody so nobody can get in their way.

And perhaps the 'flakyness' of actors ISN'T a reflection upon their quality as Actors. I was reading in this recent ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY about people's experiences working with Heath Ledger (who few would doubt was a great artist and actor) -- how he went from being totally confident acting to totally insecure at times, how the creative electricity inside him caused him to sign up for deals then back out, how he'd love acting and then refuse or resist to promote the end product.

Imagine that: hundreds of people collaborate on a movie, tens of millions of dollars are risked on an Actor's ability ... and then the Actor risks destroying the success of the movie because he or she "doesn't like to do interviews" etc ?!?!

To me, it's not a thing about actors so much as it's just that the people I've met in my life, by and large, are kind of on the flaky side.

And that seems to be especially true for a lot of creative-minded people, as much of a cliche as that is.

I've moved through numerous fields of writing, and if I had a dollar for every time a project collapsed because someone else didn't hold up their end of the deal, I could probably afford to shoot the seven full-length film scripts I've written so far.

The hot chick who "wants to be an actress" ??? Today she wants to be an Actress, but the day of your shoot she wants to go shopping. :(

:rofl: Hah! Oh, god, that's SO NOT FUNNY! Well, maybe its funny cuz its true :D

Here is what you take from that exprience though, FatalFire. Now you have an idea of who you should and should NOT work with. You know who is reliable and who isn't. The next project you have, you know who to call on. This is one of those hard lessons we all get in one form or another--I had a secondary cameraperson quit on the 2nd day of an out of town, 21 day shoot. I'm still mad. But you know who and what to do the next time.

I would like to say this: out of all the young people who say they want to shoot something and that they need actors, I have never heard one ever say: I went to the theater club at school. Every school puts on some kind of play or musical. Why doesn't anyone look there for some actors?

I do documentaries, but I have a couple of short stories that I eventually want to produce. The first place I would look would be the little theaters and the acting classes at the local schools...but that's just me....

-- spinner :cool:

How did I get my friend to stop being camera shy and act in my films?

OFFER PIZZA AND BEER.

It works. Give it a shot. So you're out twenty pounds for food and liquor. No big deal as long as you get the shot, right?

OFFER PIZZA AND BEER.


F*** YEAH, PIZZA!

How did I get my friend to stop being camera shy and act in my films?

OFFER PIZZA AND BEER.

It works. Give it a shot. So you're out twenty pounds for food and liquor. No big deal as long as you get the shot, right?

Punch 'n pie. Free paper hats.

Yeah well... incase anyone is wondering it did work out in the end I found some new ones who were not douchebags.

From now on i'll presume everyone is a jackass until they prove otherwise.

Yeah well... incase anyone is wondering it did work out in the end I found some new ones who were not douchebags.

From now on i'll presume everyone is a jackass until they prove otherwise.

It's happy news things worked out for you in the end.

You may indeed have just hit on some unlucky choices to act in your movie ... in every group some will disappoint you, others will go above and beyond.

A recent personal anecdote: lined two models up for photo shoots, both working TFCD just to build their portfolios.
#1 is not all that attractive, and her "portfolio" doesn't just look like snapshots but like BAD snapshots: she had every reason to be needful and bend over backwards to grab the opportunity to get some decent photos of herself taken.

#1 stands me up, two days before shoot ... vanishes. No e-mail replies, no phone replies ... I pull the plug on the scheduled shoot. Two days later she's "Can't we please pleasssssse re-schedule?!" I'm like ... yeah, okay, we'll see. I have a new camera, I wanna work out the rocket-science twenty shooting modes and quirks gremlins ... I can use a model and she'll get cool pix. But I'm THINKING "burned me once" etc ...

Model #2 looks like Rebecca Romain (however it's spelled, y'know, MYSTIQUE from the X-MEN. Except she's not blue ...) She's already GOT a real cool portfolio, plenty quality shots. She can model for money, doesn't NEED more shots.

But SHE'S into it as an ART. She values creativity over hourly pay. I'm like ... really? We'll see.

I ask her if two hours is okay ... "Don't worry about it"

I ask, she's out of town, can she be responsible for finding a cool place to shoot (I'm thinking ... it's freezing outside, just find some drab place, anyplace to shoot with electricity for my lights etc)

So ... I drive down, things are a little rough from unforeseen issues ... but she ends up giving us FOUR hours, and her energy and enthusiasm doesn't drop under 150% for a minute (except, she's posing nude in front of the windoes and the lights come on in the neighbors' house, and she's "Okay, we can't shoot in front of the windows, sorry." THAT was her only moment of non-happy joyjoy)

And the drab place she might have come up with, I'm not expecting much:
It's her gay hairdresser friend's freaking 1930's brothel-looking PALACE of mirrors and art deco coolness!

My point being: I could've doubted, I could've said "Can't trust people they'll let you down, break yer heart, LOWER MY GOALS, etc" ...

But then you get LUCKY, you find creative and enthusiastic people with THEIR OWN BLISS, and they take you beyond anything you expected.

PUT YOUR POSITIVE ENERGY OUT ... and if you get disappointed NINE times, the TENTH will make it all worthwhile.
Never let THEM make YOU into the cynical badguy, or into the guy who disappoints THEM.

That's my advice. In a world of those who don't keep promises ... that makes those who KEEP promises real treasures.

Treasure a treasure and you'll be a treasure, imo. :yes:

If I sound all happy and dear diary ... it's because every so often things fall together instead of fall apart ... and it's wonderful! Artists and Creative folks need to plug into that magic with less cynicism and fear.

Things go wrong. No one else cares about your thing as much as you care about your thing. But it's YOUR THING ... and finding the RIGHT FOLKS (often in unexpected places and situations) makes it BETTER than YOU. Trust, be disappointed, trust, win the big prize.

Producing 101: Always have a backup plan. About 1 in 10 actors will flake. If it's a critical starring role then have them sign a contract before you commit to shooting a movie.

I hope you don't mind me jumping in. I've been acting for 15 years, in both film and stage.

You have to realize something--the 'professional' actors tend to stay far away from 'student films' for some of the very reasons you called-out the 'flaky' actors. Because most of us who have worked on student films have either been burnt, or subjected to horrible productions. I mean that with no ill-will at all. I'm just being honest. Not to mention, if we aren't going to get paid, we want to work with established production companies that guarantee a quality product.

Basically, my point being, actors that tend to be OK with student films, don't tend to carry with them much experience, and much professionalism. You have to hope and get lucky with talent at that level of the game.

Also, I can understand how difficult it is to find a good actor for any production...let alone a student film. One piece of advice I will offer is this...don't skimp on actors. Do your homework early, so you can get quality talent. Throwing bad actors into your picture is a sure-fire way of dragging the production down to unwatchable. Other than sound and lighting...the next big problem with indies are the actors.

And besides just my example...actors can be flaky in general. That is why when you find a few good actors, you stick with them. If you can find a balance of professionalism, talent, and ease of work in your actors...it can be worth it to write them into your script, as opposed to finding new ones.

It's a catch 22...finding experienced actors with great work ethic to act in student films is difficult. Experienced actors don't want to do student films for some of the same reasons you voiced about actors.

I hope I've helped a little.

If I sound all happy and dear diary ... it's because every so often things fall together instead of fall apart ... and it's wonderful! Artists and Creative folks need to plug into that magic with less cynicism and fear.

Things go wrong. No one else cares about your thing as much as you care about your thing. But it's YOUR THING ... and finding the RIGHT FOLKS (often in unexpected places and situations) makes it BETTER than YOU. Trust, be disappointed, trust, win the big prize.

I actually agree with this. If you are in it for the long haul, you'll live for the times that everything falls into place and you get a great shot or a great shot you thought you missed. Those times are so gold...

-- spinner :cool:

I would have just one recommendation for you on this. You should approach casting as a professional would. Sending an email to people to see who is interested puts out a strange vibe to actors. They wonder why the info didn't come through their fine arts department or an agency. At the very least, go to the Theatre Department and ask if you could take 5 minutes to address acting classes, introducing your project to them. Be clear that it is non-union and without pay, but that you are a good filmmaker and an actor could possibly benefit from having good footage for their demo reel. And, if you do promise that, FOLLOW THROUGH and get them the footage. There's nothing worse for an actor than to spend their valuable time on an independent project hoping to get some good footage only to have a "flaky" director bail on them.

Best of luck on your next project.

Steve

I've acted in USC and UCLA student films and had a great time and did get good footage from them. But, actors beware...MANY 'student' directors will flake out on you and all that good work you did will be for naught. There are also 'flaky' independent filmmakers who are not students who will flake on you. I've had a few bad experiences with indie directors who appeared to have it all together and then when I tried to get footage, their phone was no longer in service.

Even in Los Angeles 10% of actors that you cast will flake out. That's why you always have a backup plan.

Pay a little ($75 a day) and people will be a little more motivated.

I can tell you that I am always surprised at how flaky fellow actors can be. To not be punctual and take it seriously is, well just beyond my scope of understanding. This is serious business.

But, aspiring film makers/directors can be just as flaky. There is something about our society, the way we raise our children, that tends to result in adults that have no sense of reliability and responsibility. I think it has to do with the fact that parents don't make their children responsible enough at early enough of an age.

I have had to hunt down copies of work I have done, call over and over, after leaving voice mails. I have gone to auditions where it was implied that the project was about to shoot, only to be told that they were 'thinking' of shooting sometime next year.

I have worked on shoots that were so poorly planned it actually surprised me how good the finished product turned out.

For all these reasons I approach film making as if it was like war. Meticulous planning, regimented discipline, and clear communication. Instead of the art of war, film making is the war of art.

I think a lot depends upon getting to the right person at the right time + people who wants to be in front of camera.
Last night we shooted whole night (for my film course) and great things happened. A group of drunk young guys came and they insisted they ant to get shooted. So on the spot we adjusted them and outcome was far more better :). I meet many people (while shooting for my project) who are willing to act and to come in front of CAMERA. and i love handling them. I will suggest FatalFire always have a backup of your actors. We do the same.


By the way i will soon upload my 2 projects on youtube and the experience is great. :)

Just make sure you're getting professional actors (by professional I mean at whatever level they are at). If an actor has a resume and a headshot, and they are very composed and professional in the audition, you can bet you'll see the same behavior on set.

If you hire a goof-off college kid because he wants 'to act'...you may find yourself postponing your shooting schedule.

It all depends on the town you live in (the film and theatrical presence), and your own quality of work. If your movies look like crap, quality actors will stay away from you. If your work looks great, quality actors will find YOU. If you don't have any previous work, again quality actors are likely to stay away from you.

Also, be sure you treat your actors well. You don't have to pay them...just make sure you feed them when they work, get them a copy of the finished project, and treat them with respect.

From an actor's perspective, you have to realize that there are also A LOT of flaky production companies out there too, so if you're working with actors who have been burnt by the flaky ones, you almost have to prove at you're not like them in order to be taken seriously and get a committment.

Personally, I thoroughly research people before even auditioning and if they don't have a website or a demo of their work or an article about their work or something online, then I won't work with them (unless I know them personally) because there are so many people out there who don't have their shit together and just think that they can be filmmakers when they really have no idea what they're doing. So I'm assuming that if atleast they've gotten some sort of attention from something about their films that they must be doing something right and that the production won't be a total waste of time. Of course also, when I committ to a project, I'm committed 100% - which I agree is a problem among many actors - they say they'll be on set and then never show up and so on. But many production companies do that to - will call an hour before the shoot is scheduled and cancell it - it's a problem that plauges every part of this industry - I know countless films that haven't been made because the investors didn't have the capital they said they had - you should always have a back up plan unless you're working with people you know and are sure aren't going to flake out on you. And of course if you're paying people, that always helps in getting them to committ.

Yeah well... incase anyone is wondering it did work out in the end I found some new ones who were not douchebags.

From now on i'll presume everyone is a jackass until they prove otherwise.

That's basically how I work - I don't believe that anything is really going to get made or that I really have the part until I am on the set and we start shooting because there have been SO many times that I get cast in something and it never gets made, or someone tells me they want me for a part and then never calls, or cancels a shoot an hour before it's supposed to happen. I'll prepare and get ready for the role and leave my schedule open and everything, but I don't let myself get emotionally invested in projects anymore because it's such a dissapointment when they fall through.

This way, you're prepared for the worst even if everything goes right and then you don't get screwed.

At the indie level of the game (low, micro, or no budget), both parties (company and actor) have to research one another, as well as hold an 'interview' of sorts. The audition is a great place for both the actor and the auditor to interview one another. Of course, there should be research done prior to the audition, which could save a lot of headaches. If an actor or production company doesn't have an online presence at all, it may be best to look elsewhere for work or talent.

I'm not trying to perpetuate the annoying catch 22 that our lovely industry holds dear (to do a SAG film, you have to be SAG, and you can't be SAG until you do a SAG film)...meaning, I don't think that just because an actor or company are just getting started you shouldn't ever work with them...but, it is something you should definitely be mindful of. Unless you're desperate (either on the casting scene or the looking for a gig scene), you should definitely take someone's experience into consideration.

You have to pay your dues...both as an actor, and as a production company. Work your way up.

This isn't always the case...I mean, Cera and I worked on a production recently with a brand new production company (Optic Sugar)...they are actually a motion graphics firm, and recently decided to start making films. They had heard about us as local actors and asked us to be in the film without an audition. Well, Cera and I decided to take a chance on them because we heard good things about them, and their website was slicker than David Hasslehoff's chest in the Summer...so we took the job. Turns out they had insanely good equipment, tons of people on set doing their jobs in an orderly, professional manner...and the rough cut we saw weeks later was incredible...totally on the level. So you never know what a company can pull out of their ass. Keep in mind though that Optic Sugar was run by 30 something college grads with serious design skills...so they have an edge (which is why we accepted the gig).

But most of the time, first-time film makers aren't going to produce award winning material...so if you're an actor with a lot of experience, you should steer clear of them. That's not a mean thing to say...that's just a bit of professional advice.

Same thing with an actor. If they don't have an online presence at all (no webpage, online resume, headshot), you're probably not going to find a very skilled thespian behind the name. Pretty much every actor who's serious about their craft, will have some form of online presence (unless you're at the level where your agent is calling you daily and don't need a website or reel). If they don't have an online presence (or very little experience--background work doesn't count), then it may be best to look elsewhere. If you love their look, call them in to audition...if you have the time, why not.

Bringing this back to the topic...little experience greatly increases the likely hood of flakiness--on both the production's end, and the actor's.

This isn't always the case...I mean, Cera and I worked on a production recently with a brand new production company (Optic Sugar)...they are actually a motion graphics firm, and recently decided to start making films. They had heard about us as local actors and asked us to be in the film without an audition. Well, Cera and I decided to take a chance on them because we heard good things about them, and their website was slicker than David Hasslehoff's chest in the Summer...so we took the job. Turns out they had insanely good equipment, tons of people on set doing their jobs in an orderly, professional manner...and the rough cut we saw weeks later was incredible...totally on the level. So you never know what a company can pull out of their ass. Keep in mind though that Optic Sugar was run by 30 something college grads with serious design skills...so they have an edge.


Yes, but we knew another actor who had worked with them and higly recommended them, and we went to their awesome studio to meet with them and get a private screening of a film that they were working on post on before accepting - it's not like we just jumped in with no background or info on them - even though they were just getting into films, we know that they had their shit together and it was going to be a good production that actually got finished--- it is so important to know what you're getting into before accepting an offer, and this time it did work out very well -- othertimes (like the film where we met that started shooting 2 years ago and still isn't done shooting yet) we maybe should have done more research on them before signing on, but now that we're in it, we're committed to it and are still working with them to finish it even when 4 of the other main actors have dropped out....

(like the film where we met that started shooting 2 years ago and still isn't done shooting yet) we maybe should have done more research on them before signing on, but now that we're in it, we're committed to it and are still working with them to finish it even when 4 of the other main actors have dropped out....

Ahhh...what a great story. Bad production, but we both not only met each other, we met some really cool people in the process. It was (is) totally worth it in this rare and special case.

A perfect example of how sometimes sacrificing can lead to bigger and better things.

Next year you can make a 30 min documentary film about how hard it is to find actors. That should be easy enough. Plus you can really portray the amount of self devotion and determination it takes to survive in the film world.

Next year you can make a 30 min documentary film about how hard it is to find actors. That should be easy enough. Plus you can really portray the amount of self devotion and determination it takes to survive in the film world.

I'm definitely sensing sarcasm...

Was something said that you didn't like? Or am I misreading you?

That sucks, that happened to me a couple times as well. However, It can go both ways. I have had Directors who couldnt get there shit together. I refered this guy to a few actors that i went to school with who didn't mind acting and playing any part. So i set them up and told him he was a good guy and that the shoot shouldnt take much longer than two hours (according to the director). We get the bar where the shoot was suppose to take place, and no director was to be found. I had set everything up for him and he showed up two hours late. On top of that, his two hour shoot turned into a five hour shoot because he was unorganized. No script, no planned shots, just a bunch of pictures that he drew. I go to school with this guy now and would never refer him to anyone. Now because of him, I have now ruined my own reputation and have to convince them that i do have a good word. It all has to do with being proffesional. It goes both ways.

No, nothing was said that I didnt like. One of my good friends is a director and he to has a hard time finding actors as devoted to the film as he is. Everything is set up and ready to shoot, but no actors or at least not all of them. It is hard to find those who are determined, thats why I'm saying make a documentary about your experience trying to film a film. It takes someone with a lot of determination to deal with that kind of crap. It should be easy to portray that theme with undetermined actors.

No sarcasm, I just needed to explain myself more.

:0)

No, nothing was said that I didnt like. One of my good friends is a director and he to has a hard time finding actors as devoted to the film as he is. Everything is set up and ready to shoot, but no actors or at least not all of them. It is hard to find those who are determined, thats why I'm saying make a documentary about your experience trying to film a film. It takes someone with a lot of determination to deal with that kind of crap. It should be easy to portray that theme with undetermined actors.

No sarcasm, I just needed to explain myself more.

:0)

Well, then have Michael and I come out to be part of your film! :) j/k But we are devoted to whatever we sign on to.

I know determined and committed actors are out there. You two may be some of the few I have ever encountered.:lol: I am just exaggerating. I know there are lots of great actors that are very serious to what they commit to.:yes: I am here in Omaha (pop around 1 mil). Lots of actors to choose from, but not too many of them seem to have the commitment level you two have.

You should fly out here, we could use some people like you!:)

Actors are just like everyone else. Some good, some bad.

When I was looking for actresses to play prostitutes in Us Sinners, I received over a hundred headshots. I asked about ten of them if they'd like to do a bit part and they were fine with faking a BJ, but when they heard that a condom was going to be dropped in their mouth after they were dead, they all backed out. Finally one brave soul agreed, she was a trooper.

Another actress had a speaking prostitute role and we bent over backward to accommodate her. I even paid her because she was very good. We didn't have a release for her to sign at the time of shooting, and later on when we asked her to sign, she refused. We had to reshoot her scene.

Yeah some actors are flaky, but good ones are professional, it's what they love to do.

Give the Actors insentive. dont talk about what it will do for you talk about what it will do for them. and say that lunch is provided.

I have acted on student films several times, always for free. It was an interesting experience, and always nice to work with semiprofesional equipment.

I make my own films but my equipment is low budget.

Most of the time the students are badly prepared, the script is poor and delivered the day before. Still the "director" pretended (every time) that I said the lines EXACTLY as written. I understand why is that, but if he/she had written a better script, with sentences that make sense, and delivered a few days in advance, then I would have learnt my lines perfectly.

Also there is no clear planning, last time it took 5 hours, since I arrived to the set, to shoot 1.5 min scene. And it wasn't that complicated scene.

As actors we know that we need to wait for a long time to get things ready, but we are also people, so take that into account when you are scheduling the times.

Also if you didn't really do a casting, don't pretend the actor to deliver the role as you imagined it. Actors will give it a new dimension, probably more realistic than your imagination, as well as more limited as we might not be the best actors that are in the market.

Also don't ask for whatever. There are scenes that non paid actors will not do.

In summary:
- Look professional. have a backup.
- Plan properly and tell the actors when to come
- Release the script, reviewed, as soon as possible
- Offer food and drinks :-)

People are just like that. I hear it all the time: "I want to be an actor", "My daughter/son wants to be an actor". blah blah blah. You'll hear it all the time, yes it's a pain.

I just did my first feature. I had a guy for a lead role all set. He emails me 2 weeks before the shoot and tells me he can't do it. What did I do?

I took action. I found someone else within 24 hours. This kid has never done anything before, but wanted to be an actor.

In 2 weeks he learned his lines, showed up for the shoot, and nailed it spot on. So you see? If someone craps out on you, toss it aside and pick the phone up, send an email, do something.

There are those who say, and those who do. Find the latter.

People are just like that. I hear it all the time: "I want to be an actor", "My daughter/son wants to be an actor". blah blah blah. You'll hear it all the time, yes it's a pain.

I just did my first feature. I had a guy for a lead role all set. He emails me 2 weeks before the shoot and tells me he can't do it. What did I do?

I took action. I found someone else within 24 hours. This kid has never done anything before, but wanted to be an actor.

In 2 weeks he learned his lines, showed up for the shoot, and nailed it spot on. So you see? If someone craps out on you, toss it aside and pick the phone up, send an email, do something.

There are those who say, and those who do. Find the latter.

Of course, you can do your best not to put yourself in this situation. Also, I wouldn't suggest you bank on a total noob...that could make your film suffer. You want to make sure you have solid actors...especially your leads. And I'm not talking about 'passable' acting, the kind that most indie films let slide...the goal is always to get as believable an actor as possible...those aren't easy to come by. So hold auditions with plenty of time to choose, and screen your actors accordingly.

If we don't shoot for the stars, we'll never reach them. Don't settle for 'mediocre' or 'indie'...you always want the best...or at least the best person that suites the character.

Of course, you can do your best not to put yourself in this situation. Also, I wouldn't suggest you bank on a total noob...that could make your film suffer. You want to make sure you have solid actors...especially your leads. And I'm not talking about 'passable' acting, the kind that most indie films let slide...the goal is always to get as believable an actor as possible...those aren't easy to come by. So hold auditions with plenty of time to choose, and screen your actors accordingly.

If we don't shoot for the stars, we'll never reach them. Don't settle for 'mediocre' or 'indie'...you always want the best...or at least the best person that suites the character.

Well I certainly agree with you, but when you're operating on a shoestring budget and you have someone quit on you 2 weeks before a shoot, there's not much choice.

I got lucky, the kid did good. I actually liked him better for the role than the other guy.

And again, this was my first feature, first film ever as a matter of fact. I did the best with what I had.

Ahaha - geez I've had some run ins with acters,

One time I got a call at 1am from the lead female, at first all I could here was the song "I will survive" and then "hello, hello? alex? yeah its N***** erm yeah, I can't make tomorrow's filming... errr yeah I'm at the after party of the TV awards and I'm erm going to stay over in London" I can't remember my reply I think it was somthing like "oh you are f***ing kidding me"

But the best one was from a leading male: "yeah hey Smithy, erm, I'm going to france next week"

So yeah, acters SUCK... but where would we be with out the little attention-seeking noobs?

SMITH

I'm definitely sensing sarcasm...

Was something said that you didn't like? Or am I misreading you?

WlwCCWGYOGg
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/01/16/12496261.html

That's a funny video http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/2439/sarcmark.jpg (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/sarcmark.jpg/)

I totally understand you.

I was in a filmmaking school and I have serious issues with actors. Some wanted to receive money and the girls couldn't take the character I prepared. I don't know USA but here in Brazil seems that all actresses want to be a cute lovely girl that falls in love for some fashion dumbass. That's awful. They can't take a serious role.

The money question is also one big proof of how actors are arrogant. I mean, when on a movie production the screenwriter, the producer, the director, the photographer... none of the team is getting money, why the actors should be the only ones taking it?

If it's a no budget production, doesn't make any sense for a actor to ask for money. They better say "I'm not interested in a no budget production" then ask for money when nobody's receiving it.

There should have a community for people crazy for filmmaking that agree to join productions to help and not to ask, that way we wouldn't be f****d up by this kind of "actors" and "actresses". I mean, if there's budget, everyone deserves to receive but if don't, just don't ask or at least don't ruin everything by agreeing to join and then giving up.

I totally understand you.

I was in a filmmaking school and I have serious issues with actors. Some wanted to receive money and the girls couldn't take the character I prepared. I don't know USA but here in Brazil seems that all actresses want to be a cute lovely girl that falls in love for some fashion dumbass. That's awful. They can't take a serious role.

The money question is also one big proof of how actors are arrogant.

Not all actors are the same, not all people are the same. If you have issues with all of them maybe there is something that you are doing wrong.
Once an actor wants to make a living out of acting and not a hobby he/she will look for paid jobs. Also if they had already some paid jobs in the past.
If you are working on a student project or a non budget film, check for student actors too. They will be willing to get experience for no payment.
At least offer them food. In our productions food is always a plus. At least they will come back saying "the film was bad, but I had a nice meal!".

I have been working with students as actor, and it can be very painful, but I enjoyed the experience and taught me a lot for my own projects.

Also the roles are important, if you ask me to play in a film for 20 secs and I require to stay there for 6 hours plus costs to get the location... well, I might not be so happy. However the script might overcome that.

I had to work with scripts that were written in bad English, and clearly were first or second drafts. Once I had to write my own lines because the script didn't make any sense!

Actors have egos, but in low budget filmmaking check for people that are willing to work as part of the crew. Mainly when your total crew can be very small.
And also take into account that what you envision and what the actor deliver is very different. Just try to do it yourself. Many great directors have been in acting classes to understand that fact.

Not all actors are the same, not all people are the same. If you have issues with all of them maybe there is something that you are doing wrong.
Once an actor wants to make a living out of acting and not a hobby he/she will look for paid jobs. Also if they had already some paid jobs in the past.
If you are working on a student project or a non budget film, check for student actors too. They will be willing to get experience for no payment.
At least offer them food. In our productions food is always a plus. At least they will come back saying "the film was bad, but I had a nice meal!".

I have been working with students as actor, and it can be very painful, but I enjoyed the experience and taught me a lot for my own projects.

Also the roles are important, if you ask me to play in a film for 20 secs and I require to stay there for 6 hours plus costs to get the location... well, I might not be so happy. However the script might overcome that.

I had to work with scripts that were written in bad English, and clearly were first or second drafts. Once I had to write my own lines because the script didn't make any sense!

Actors have egos, but in low budget filmmaking check for people that are willing to work as part of the crew. Mainly when your total crew can be very small.
And also take into account that what you envision and what the actor deliver is very different. Just try to do it yourself. Many great directors have been in acting classes to understand that fact.

I know it's not all actors but a lot of them are very shallow

And I looked for 2 kinds of actors: Students and the ones who were starting and couldn't get a paid job

Again, I don't understand why ask for food. If the producer, director, photographer, art director... no one is having special food, why the actors should? Are actors better then the rest of the team?

In most of the times the crew use their own money with the production and the actors almost never help with it, isn't it enough? In a low budget production, everyone is there for the experience, to make something nice without money. Make no sense at all to spend a dollar with actors. They better say "no" than ask for things that no one is having.

And I think that before you change the script, you should check the screenwritter to see if really didn't make sense or if you didn't understand.

Once I was talking to a girl that couldn't understand how a lesbian with drug issues was looking for help by going to talk to a priest. I tried to explain a hundred of times that people almost never follow what they say to believe and the "actress" really couldn't get it. Then I got tired and said that wasn't a television soap and she said: "I'm not into soaps, I'm in theater and I read Brecht". I laugh and ended up the conversation.

If an actor is taking the time to work pro bono on a production, the least you can do is feed them. It doesn't have to be fancy, but if it's a full day you have bagels and coffee in the morning, and a light lunch half-way through the day (or dinner).

@ Samucasaac : I don't understand...so because the actors aren't helping by being producers and contributing money, they shouldn't get fed on set? That's a hard attitude to work with my man, I'm sorry but it is. I wouldn't work on a production that felt that way.

No matter what level you are in the game, you deserve to be fed...pay or not. That's a given.

If you don't have enough budget reserved to feed your cast and crew, then you shouldn't be shooting a film...or you can use all of your friends to make the movie...but I'm willing to bet the film will suffer for it.

Look...as an actor, I'll still help move gear, I'll work for free, I'll promote the movie like crazy after the fact...the least I ask is you feed me.

Cheers.

"If you don't have enough budget reserved to feed your cast and crew, then you shouldn't be shooting a film"

I Agree

I ALWAYS put a great deal of thought and more than reasonable budget into craft servies, even making special provision for vegetarian, kosher, etc... if required. Even if people ARE getting paid. A well fed cast/crew is a happy cast/crew who will work harder, longer, and complain less.

If an actor is taking the time to work pro bono on a production, the least you can do is feed them. It doesn't have to be fancy, but if it's a full day you have bagels and coffee in the morning, and a light lunch half-way through the day (or dinner).

@ Samucasaac : I don't understand...so because the actors aren't helping by being producers and contributing money, they shouldn't get fed on set? That's a hard attitude to work with my man, I'm sorry but it is. I wouldn't work on a production that felt that way.

No matter what level you are in the game, you deserve to be fed...pay or not. That's a given.

If you don't have enough budget reserved to feed your cast and crew, then you shouldn't be shooting a film...or you can use all of your friends to make the movie...but I'm willing to bet the film will suffer for it.

Look...as an actor, I'll still help move gear, I'll work for free, I'll promote the movie like crazy after the fact...the least I ask is you feed me.

Cheers.

Oh if only the food was the only problem of actors...

But my point is that sometimes everyone in the crew but the actors pay for their own food and even give money to the production. What I always feel is that actors feel most specials of the production. Actors almost always feel that they deserve more than then everyone in the crew. Maybe they think that they're better only because they're in front of the camera, I don't know.

That might be the reason that many directors always use the same actors.

Oh if only the food was the only problem of actors...

But my point is that sometimes everyone in the crew but the actors pay for their own food and even give money to the production. What I always feel is that actors feel most specials of the production. Actors almost always feel that they deserve more than then everyone in the crew. Maybe they think that they're better only because they're in front of the camera, I don't know.

That might be the reason that many directors always use the same actors.

Quite honestly, I've met just as many crew who are dicks as I have actors...in fact, I'd say more. It's the industry in general. The majority of actors I've worked with and met are cool as hell, and professionals through and through. Maybe it's the circles you guys run in?

You want to talk about prick DPs? Oh, I could tell some stories. You want to talk about an asshole director? Oh, I've met a few. What about arrogant grips and snippy hair and makeup artist? I've got some stories.

Trust me, there are plenty on both sides of the fence. An ass is an ass is an ass.

This is a common story even in the big leagues. I read about it all the time, so you need to always have options. I had an actor who disappeared on me before the shoot and he was the lead antagonist. I had to look up his band to try to get in touch with him, and they answered but then started ignoring my emails. I drove 3 hours into some deserted bar in the middle of nowhere because thats where they were playing that night. The actor was surprised to see me, but once I explained everything to him, he was excited and wanted to do it "for sure". Then he had a talk with his band members and he dropped out last minute. I had the production almost set and I couldn't believe this was happening to me. I ended up casting an actor that was playing another character for the lead antagonist, and then replacing that character with my option 2 actor. It actually worked out way better than I thought, and I think the production would have been a complete failure if I had kept the original actor. It's really funny how things work out..but luckily I had options available. In the end, I had a small but dedicated cast that I feel very indebted to.

LOL @ all this. I won't even start again. I think all of us that are actual filmmakers should have our heads examined.

About 10% of actors will flake out on indie films for various reasons. Usually it's because something better came along. That's why you always need backup choices. For irreplaceable actors you need deal memos signed.

About 10% of actors will flake out on indie films for various reasons. Usually it's because something better came along. That's why you always need backup choices. For irreplaceable actors you need deal memos signed.

Probably more, and this is is applicable to the whole crew as well. Also probably 20% (to say a number) of indy films are badly scheduled and might never be completed. So it's all about confidence vs commitment.

As actor I played in a student film as a supporting role. I had to come on set two days for more than 5 hours each day just to film a scene of 30-60 secs. I got a headache out of snorting sugar (meant to be cocaine) and I didn't get any food or anything. On top of that the crew were fighting, so the second time I came they were only half of the crew.
And if that wasn't all the director told me how good the main actor was, while he told me off for not being exactly as I he envisioned... Then 2nd day I came back I made sure I looked exactly as I was the first time. However, the main actor didn't shave for 2 days... There it goes continuitivity on the same scene...
This film never saw the light :(

Also, bear in mind, that a lot of indie films are horribly run, scheduled, and produced. As Mr. Boss mentions above...that's how a handful of films are run...and then when the actor drops out because the total lack of professionalism, the actor is blamed. It happens all the time.

This thread is hilarious. If you're a director who finds yourself constantly frustrated with your actors, well, you're just associating yourself with the wrong people. Re-think your casting choices. I've had some very bad experiences, and I've done my best to learn from them. I've also had some WONDERFUL experiences. I think it's all about finding the right people, and what methods you are using to find them.

I am dedicated and show up on time and am pretty new to acting. I got my first part in a short film by networking with the director/dp/producer/writer etc... that I meet at a indie film network meeting in Idianapolis. So it is possible to get in the door if you try hard enough as a noob. I told them that I had been working on my own short film for months and I wanted to act in their film. I told them in a confindent way I wanted to do it. I showed up and hopefully it makes the cut of the film. The tralier just came out a day ago. I was not in the trailer since I had a small part. But I am excited.

I have been networking with other directors trying to get in films too. I am going to be in a 48 hours short film contest with the same people that produced the last short film at the end of the month. That is where you have to come up with a script/film/produce a short film in 48 hours. I look forward to that one I will act and maybe write hopefully.

I am trying out for another short film this weekend. Another short part since they need a 20s something and I am 35.

I recently got the motivation and confidence to act and I have the drive. I love movies and plan to direct/act and make my own movies with a production crew in the future once I have the money. If anyone needs an actor and have a good production team I would love to consider your film. I live in Indianapolis. Hopefully the final film turns out as good as I think it may.

As far as flakiness I know when I tried to form a band many years ago that it was difficult to get people to show up when they said they would. It can destroy a band before they even really get started. It transalates to film.

So far I have worked with professionals or people that act like professionals. The crew I worked with were great and the actors were amazing too. I think I may have been lucky in my first short film with a crew. I did check out the production company before I decided to do the project because I wanted a quality film for my reel. Besides it is a great networking thing to do if you act in a short. I met a lot of great people and got some experience. They used Cannon 7d and I love the looks of that camera.

I realize that this is an old thread, but I LUV!!!!! ACTORS!!!!!!!!.......A few flakes now and then? Yeap! But girl-o-boy, I've had some incredibly talented no-names who have gone through hell and back during two features and a short that were made from my scripts in the last year.

My only contribution is the writing(okay, and boom, and continuity, and props, and etc.), and to see these talented flakes bring my stories and characters to life in ways that I'd never imagined....F&ck, I LUV!!!! actors!

They're like junkies who need a fix, and we're the dealers....You can get 'em to do anything...And if you run into a prima donna, then be done with 'em and move on.

Pay 'em what you can!

Feed 'em the best you're able!

DON'T!!! expect them to help set up equipment, etc.. That's not their job!!....I was a pathetically unsuccessful newb of a playwright in Chicago in the early '80's.....Got involved helping out, just a little, at the Steppenwolf Theater....Do the names Malkovich, Senise, Mahoney, Laurie Metcalf ring any bells? I saw Dennis Farina's debut performance on stage(he sucked, BTW, but he's gotten better)...The intensity that they brought to their roles was unnerving.

But there is one piece of advice I can offer to indiefolks regarding actors' potential flakiness...

ALWAYS!!! write in a part for a guy named "Jerry"....Jerry will serve no real purpose other than to be in a few scenes with the other actors early on in the film...Maybe Jerry is at a bar and meets "Jack" the lead actor's character, and is then in another scene with Jack and a coupla friends....

Half way into the shoot, when the actor playing Jack does a disappearing act, by golly if good ol' Jerry doesn't show up and explain that Jack just got run over by a bus, but if he were here, he'd say "......"

Midnite

Meh...as an actor.. I'll have to say you get what you pay for. I've done more free work than you can imagine...and thats what we have to do to get our reels and resumes up to par. However, at times and can be risky and damn near dangerous. Sometimes it turns out to be for a non experienced director with little to no crew on a decent camera with no know how behind it, but he/she actually gives a damn and we all learn a lot. I'm lucky i'm at the point in my career where I'm not doing that kind of stuff anymore but... you get what you pay for. Sometimes you get lucky and find people willing to work for copy that really do love acting and are fearless...

The problem is...acting is something everyone "wants" to do until they realize how much work is actually involved. I would say that rings true for most of the entertainment industry.

I know myself and most all of my actor friends really respect everyone involved in the production side of things from the crew to the hair and makeup folks. Don't hate on actors because without them you won't have a job... hate on flaky actors...because they aren't real actors anyways.

And Midnight... Your "Jerry" character is freaking hilarious!