I thought that maybe this might be a good question to ask and I knew I would love to get input from those on this board. So, in your opinion:

What Should Every Indie Filmmaker Know?

Is this question broad? Yes, it is intentionally broad. You can be technical or philosophical (I tend to lean towards philosophical myself). It can be a generally speaking answer or a personal one. Just if you give an answer, make sure you back it up with whatever you think is relevant. You can answer more than once, because you might have more than one thing to comment on.

I don't think this question has been asked before, sorry if it has. Let me know and I'll go away :D

Anyone want to get in on this :)

-- spinner :cool:

How to deal with rejection and criticism. :)

Audio is just as important (edit: that should read, MORE IMPORTANT) than all the cool camera moves. Spend time on audio capture and post production, dammit.

Story conquers all.

Just fix it in post.

:)

I think maybe alot of people in independent film enter the arena in the "wrong order" so to speak.

What I mean is when getting started, alot of indie filmmakers think from "Hollywood down" instead of "no budget up". If you have a certain amount of know-how and you are learning as you make your 'shorts' but you have no money, it might not be the best idea to try to hire someone to work on your project. I'm thinking it would make more sense to find someone who is also trying to break into the business and collaborate. Chances are you won't be able to afford the big lighting director, or the expensive light fixtures, or the expensive steadycam apparatus. And that being the case, wouldn't it make sense to try to make something that would work until you can afford the more expensive whatever-it-is?

For example: I would love to do some of my projects with the Red Camera. But hard fact is that I can't afford that camera. So now what? Do I sit around and lament my financial situation or do I figure out a way to get my film produced at a much lower cost? The cost should be lower, not the production value.

I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking big, if you're gonna go, go big. But the reality is that you might not be able to do Lord Of The Rings on your allowance or if you have a family and this is your first project. I've seen people worry about equipment when they have never shot anything ever.

I guess this is part of why I started this thread. How you do things will be different if you are an independent filmmaker who is already making a living in film or if you are 14 and in high school and are trying to find a camera to learn on. And that was what I was thinking when I was looking over the posts today and started this thread.

Its as if no one wants to start at the beginnng, everyone wants to hit one out of the part their first time out and many people don't want to even get started if they can't get paid right away.

I don't know if I think that is realistic. Realisticly I am lamenting my financial situation...

-- spinner :cool:

Shoot and edit, make the next one better based on your mistakes this time around.

I'm a ground - up type of filmmaker. Started with nothing but the desire to make something. Started by borrowing the gear to do it, worked up from there. Still going, still learning... always.

Never lament your current situation, work within it! You'd be surprised what you can do when you don't realize you can't do it :)

Never lament your current situation, work within it! You'd be surprised what you can do when you don't realize you can't do it :)

I like where your head is at. :)

Learn to delegate.

Your head will explode if you insist on doing everything by yourself (both on & off set), as each subsequent project gets better, more ambitious & more technically involved.

Yeah, it takes a bit of trust - but you won't go insane. :cool:

I think maybe alot of people in independent film enter the arena in the "wrong order" so to speak.

What I mean is when getting started, alot of indie filmmakers think from "Hollywood down" instead of "no budget up". If you have a certain amount of know-how and you are learning as you make your 'shorts' but you have no money, it might not be the best idea to try to hire someone to work on your project. I'm thinking it would make more sense to find someone who is also trying to break into the business and collaborate. Chances are you won't be able to afford the big lighting director, or the expensive light fixtures, or the expensive steadycam apparatus. And that being the case, wouldn't it make sense to try to make something that would work until you can afford the more expensive whatever-it-is?

For example: I would love to do some of my projects with the Red Camera. But hard fact is that I can't afford that camera. So now what? Do I sit around and lament my financial situation or do I figure out a way to get my film produced at a much lower cost? The cost should be lower, not the production value.

I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking big, if you're gonna go, go big. But the reality is that you might not be able to do Lord Of The Rings on your allowance or if you have a family and this is your first project. I've seen people worry about equipment when they have never shot anything ever.

I guess this is part of why I started this thread. How you do things will be different if you are an independent filmmaker who is already making a living in film or if you are 14 and in high school and are trying to find a camera to learn on. And that was what I was thinking when I was looking over the posts today and started this thread.

Its as if no one wants to start at the beginnng, everyone wants to hit one out of the part their first time out and many people don't want to even get started if they can't get paid right away.

I don't know if I think that is realistic. Realisticly I am lamenting my financial situation...

-- spinner :cool:

Do you think it gets harder as you get older?

Do you think it gets harder as you get older?

I don't know....

My observation is that even though the people I work around are younger by nature of what I am doing (videotaping rock bands), I have been told by people in(around?) the industry, manager types, that they don't want to "babysit" a band. That means even though they will sign a band with very young members, they don't want to have to watch the kids who are just turning 21 and wanting to get drunk. They don't want to deal with a lead singer with a substance problem. They do want people who understand the "business of music" and that often means someone who is older, but ideally skews younger. I know a number of people my age in the bands I am pursuing or at least just younger.

I am lucky because even though I could lose a few pounds :rolleyes: I get carded alot. But I also have some good work under my belt so I think that goes on ahead of me. I will say that I tend not to 'skew' my age, but I do act like me, not younger or trying to be younger, just me. I will admit to the fact that vanity might make me color my hair somewhat, but thats only because the grey streaks didn't come in like Lily Munster. (I woulda sported that proudly.)

I will say that I do worry alittle about what I don't have access to. There are alot of kids just out of school who have access to computer programs I want to learn. I am trying to figure out how to get the FCP Studio 2 so that what I do will improve. But I know from experience that just because you know all the bells and whistles doesn't mean your final product is all that great. I guess I worry more about the perception that younger is better. I worry about when I started and the fact that I should already be out there, though I am just beginning. I don't worry about my age.

I think that if my work is good, that will be the decision maker. My work needs to be distinctive and have its own voice and its own spirit. And then it has to stand up next to everyone elses, so who cares how old I am if I do a good, hopefully great job? Only an idiot would let your age be a dealbreaker if your work is up to par. I want my work to always be up to par. Maybe I should have started younger, but I didn't. I am here now and that is what I want to focus on.

So do I think its harder as I get older? I think it is hard across the board, but your talent (?) should make you stand out regardless of your age...

....did I make that clear as mud?

-- spinner :cool:

Never lament your current situation, work within it! You'd be surprised what you can do when you don't realize you can't do it :)

When I say that I mean from a monetary standpoint. Financially, I am getting killed by bills and all that. But that hasn't stopped me from pursuing filmmaking. I don't know what I would do if I had to give it up. I would be pretty grumpy :grumpy:

After the holidays I am going to work on putting together that DIY light kit, money schmoney! :D

-- spinner :cool:

Don't forget you can rent. I see all these threads "Which **** should I buy," or "How do I make a ***," well, you can rent anything you need for a film, so consider that as an option as well.

Say you are a filmmaker or screenwriter and you plan to go to LA. What is the FIRST thing, not including room/board/temporary work, what is the first thing you as a filmmaker or screenwriter should do?

In your opinion, of course....


-- spinner :cool:

Say you are a filmmaker or screenwriter and you plan to go to LA. What is the FIRST thing, not including room/board/temporary work, what is the first thing you as a filmmaker or screenwriter should do?

Work on the movies of other independent filmmakers.

Hi. well though i am not experienced but when i imagine i will start my first project i will keep these things in mind

1) Backup of actors specially for the lead actors.
2) Visitng the location and deciding earlier that how the scenes will be shot and deciding camera angles and shots (my story board is more than worse so will not rely on it)
3) Rehalsels of actors is a must for me.
4) i know hitting Hollywood for my first movie looks impossible. But i always belive "Every thing is possible, but not by every one and i am not that every one". So try to be optimistic no matter even if ground realities say your movie cant enter Hollywood, still try out.
5) Try to search other markets too for my film. There are atleast 192 countries. I will atleast try some 10 countries any where in this world.

#2, make sure to listen to sound as well while you are at the location. Anything that will interrupt your shooting (airplanes over head, traffic noise, noisy neighbors).

Well 2 most important thing from my point of vie that every filmmaker must know are
Its niche market...:D...

i mean should be very clear about it

secondly in which genre he is the best.. I believe that majority of the filmmakers (specially who write scripts themselves) are best in 1 or 2 genre but they cant be good in all the genres.


Regards

Get a camera. Any camera. It doesn't matter if it is your grandma's 1988 VHS camcorder. If you got one at your disposal use it! Don't worry abut what the next grand camera is. There will always be a bigger, badder camera on the horizon. If you spend all of your time waiting to get that new piece of equipment, look at all the time you have lost by not doing something. Every project will make you better.

Thanks a lot for information....now I am getting a light on film making.....: )

Get a camera. Any camera. It doesn't matter if it is your grandma's 1988 VHS camcorder. If you got one at your disposal use it! Don't worry abut what the next grand camera is. There will always be a bigger, badder camera on the horizon. If you spend all of your time waiting to get that new piece of equipment, look at all the time you have lost by not doing something. Every project will make you better.

I agree with this completely. I've seen some stuff that's been shot on a handy-cam. Like the old saying goes-it's not what you have, it's what you do with it :)


Though Still want that nice 3000 dollar Sony pro camera I saw the other day....*L*

This has since become my work and success philosophy. Assuming you take some entry level jobs in the industry... As you chart your film career, maybe this stuff is worth considering:

1. The person who fetches coffee today, will control the money tomorrow. So first, make sure the coffee is hot. Second, treat everyone well!

2. If the call time is 7AM, get there at 6:30AM.

3. If the work feels overwhelming, ask for more work. Busy people are rewarded.

4. Your word and your work is your reputation. Do not violate this rule. If you agree to do something, you do it. No excuses.

5. If you turn down freelance work, always say: “I’m already booked.” Don’t say you're going on vacation, etc.

great thread I love the comment to just go out and shoot no matter what. The best way to learn is to make mistakes.

My issue now is the actors want to know how they will get money for doing the film. All I can do is offer a percentage so can I sell them that the movie will potentially make money. or convince them in general to spend the 6 months putting the movie together with no money up front.

great thread I love the comment to just go out and shoot no matter what. The best way to learn is to make mistakes.

My issue now is the actors want to know how they will get money for doing the film. All I can do is offer a percentage so can I sell them that the movie will potentially make money. or convince them in general to spend the 6 months putting the movie together with no money up front.

No disrespect to actors, but a copy of the film on DVD, food, and transportation is totally acceptable. They are in this for their reel, not a few bucks. Well, not yet. The crew however, they usually get paid. Save cash for the crew and offer the above to the actors. They'll take it as long as you offer it. They're probably testing you.

3. If the work feels overwhelming, ask for more work. Busy people are rewarded.
Oh, HELL no.
Yes, sometimes busy people are rewarded, but that is because the work they are doing is getting done. To be overwhelmed is to have too much work. What you need is to handle that which is overwhelming and then keep going, this way you are busy but you won't be adding more work to an overwhelming workload.

I know from whence I speak when I say, sometimes people will take advantage of the fact that you can do everything and will expect you to just do it. Be careful of the phrases "we think/thought you can/could handle it,"; the other is "we're offering you a 'challenge'." No, what you want is to dole out the work of 3 people onto one person and reserve the right to say "you didn't step up to the challenge." Those are backhanded compliments which put the person in a catch 22 situation. What is the person supposed to say? No, I can't handle it, its too much work? The employer gets to trot out that statement when they feel the need to. "Well, we didn't promote you because we thought you couldn't handle the workload or challenge." Plus if the work is overwhelming, you stand the risk of not doing anything efficiently and that's worse because your work will be sub-par.

I have seen people 'handle it' because they had no choice and the employer has no intention of giving a pay raise or even recognizing the fact that it is the work of 3 people. So, it's also important to know when someone is taking advantage of you. So I would amend this by saying, if the work is overwhelming, get it done. If they offer more work, take it and do a good job. Hopefully, you will be recognized for your efforts and good work. If not, at least your butt is covered.

Pardon my rant. I am really not that cynical, just a little jaded from seeing this sort of thing happen to good people around me and having it happen to me. I was surprised to find out how often this sort of thing happens. Its not fair, but it is the way things are done nowadays. It's a sad state of affairs.

-- spinner :cool:

I understand where you're coming from. My thoughts were based on some success strategies I utilized, all of which garnered me favorable results. I can understand what you mean... I guess there is some point when everyone has to decide if they are getting taken advantage of, and draw the line. But for me, the more work I did - and did well, the more jobs I got. I suppose there is a point when this equates to diminished returns for the employer, but I never experienced that.

Again, what I write is based on my experience and is not necessary the appropriate philosophy for everyone.

Downsizing seems to be the word of the day where I am.

The point is to do the job well. It is possible to stretch yourself too thin and the result may be that nothing gets done because everything is half-done. I don't criticize the philosophy, I even get the point you are making. We are just coming from two different experiences. Its up to everyone to find the happy medium after listening to both sides.


-- spinner :cool:

Every indie filmmaker should know photography. Become an awesome photographer and then translate it into your film. The advantage is that your only dealing with one frame at a time and you have all the time in world to get it the way you want it. Once you become an awesome photographer then you can apply those same techniques to video.
You'll be able to achieve any look you desire. Including the ever illusive "FILM LOOK" which by the way isn't some magical button on some magical camera. It's kick ass photography. It's knowing how to create gorgeous images. So become a kick ass photographer...but don't forget all the other crazy sh#t that goes along with film making.

Networking, Networking, NETWORKING! You have to be able to sell yourself, if you cant sell yourself, you cant sell your work.

This is an industry where you need to be extremely extroverted. Meet people, make contacts.. That is how you get more work. ANYONE in the industry will tell you that networking is one of the most important rules.

They should know how to do every job on the set, and well. You may have a boom operator and someone sitting at your field recorder monitoring levels, but you want to know exactly how it all works and how to do it yourself, so you can advise them if something isn't to your liking. Know how to light, how to use the camera, etc.

Remember.... if theres no ninjas in your storyline then your film is probably gonna fail, keep that in mind.

From my experience as a low budget filmmaker, I plan a shoot with the mindset that EVERYTHING can be done cheaper. Improvise. I didn't have the money for light kits so I used natural lighting and household lamps, made my own dolly out of a golf bag carrier (the ones with wheels, I just mounted a tripod on it and it worked tremendous & I bought the golf bag carrier at a thrift shop for just a few bucks.) SAG certainly doesn't mean better. I used all volunteers and get compliments on the acting in House Of Poets all the time. And without the union headaches. Let's face it. If you're serious, you can make a film. Period. I made the house movie for under $500 and with just 48 sales have nearly doubled my investment after a short period of time. Write the script with the locations & actors you KNOW you already have at your disposal. This all is of course, just my opinion and my way of starting small & working up to larger projects.

Good advice, so far.

No disrespect to actors, but a copy of the film on DVD, food, and transportation is totally acceptable. They are in this for their reel, not a few bucks. Well, not yet. The crew however, they usually get paid. Save cash for the crew and offer the above to the actors. They'll take it as long as you offer it. They're probably testing you.

I share these golden tips with you all because I've found some of you have taught me a few things in the short time I've been browsing this site;

As an actor I'd agree, 99% of Non-Union actors will be happy to do the project for free. 50% of the time there happy to PAY you to be in the project lol. As actors we depend on building a resume. With that resume we can obtain larger roles with bigger productions/for pay. So yes, definatly do not pay the actors. Just re-cast if they insist. There's always another actor looking to put a role on there resume.

Here's a great quote a director on a TV series once told me;

"The 3 most important things to consider when directing a film are; 1) Story, 2) Story, and 3) Who you cast."
- Francis Damberger
Director - Mixed Blessings / 2nd unit Passchendaele

And finally... Lighting and Cinematography. What good is the film if we cant see it? Learn a bit about 3 point lighting. Learn a bit about bouncing light. You'd be surprised what a simple 1 day bit of research on the internet will help.

Just fix it in post.

:)

I would have to disagree it is this lazy attitude that really ticks off an editor (like me). Plus i believe a shot with REAL lighting, scenery, etc will nearly always look better than what it looks like after many hours of post work.

I would have to disagree it is this lazy attitude that really ticks off an editor (like me). Plus i believe a shot with REAL lighting, scenery, etc will nearly always look better than what it looks like after many hours of post work.

agreed, as a student film maker I discovered this to be the case, we had a proffessional Film Editor in doing a workshop, and while taking a look at some of my colleague's work he said "even I couldn't fix that my friend"...