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VERy frusterating with shotgun mic

M

movieman1005

I'm sorry, but the toughest decision for me on my search for moviemaking equipment is a good mic. My god, theres like a million! Ive done several hours of research, looked on sites, but i'm not much closer to reaching a decision. It seems ive seen a million on the 100 to 300 dollar range. What is the difference? Maybe I just need to memorize these mics by their code so its easier, but there are sooo many! Some of you suggested this one (Audio Technica ATR-55 ), but im still hesitant maily because its only $50. Will a 100 to 300 give me a justifably better sound for the price increase? Or is this one good enough? What about these 600+ mics? I havnt heard too much about these, and /I havnt found many reviews to find out how they stand. Anybody have expierience with them? And please help me with the ultimate ?, what price range should I buy from? Will the 50 give me a good enough sound to hear in like a movie? Will a 100 to 300 give me a good enough for movie sound? Will the expensive one? And PLEASE someone help me decide the difference between quality and price and give me something i can use. Has someone compared these varied price mics? That would be lovely! I want to make ficion movies that have audio quality passable for a movie. Im guessing dialogue would be big, but what about action? Plus, I dont think I want a highly directional mic. I want something that goes out a little bit, right? Please, im so confused with this mic situation. And i could prob. buy most of these price ranges, but to me if I can sve a couple hundred bucks, its big for me. If i should pay the extra to make it more professional and film like, I can live with that. Just as long as I have a great quality audio for movies in the end. thank you so much for your help!

P.S. I think amazon seems like my best bet for prices on equipment, such as a mic, editing software, and cameras because they seem cheap and their prices seem to drop a lot. Any other sites that you reccomend for the equipment im looking for at cheap prices? And, im thinking of getting an hv30. If I use a vhs camera i already have and use software like sony vegas pro(good software to buy?) could i make the quality better and just save the money? or should i get the new camera? plus, if i get a new one, should i get two for comp. scenes and maybe a backup, or can i make a good movie with just 1 and save by 50%? (I have an hi8 also, so i could just use those two if i did want to use two)much appreciated!!!
 
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Movieman, my day job is running a band instrument/guitar retail store and we stock quite a few different microphones all over the map. You could spend a thousand centuries trying out different microphones and never find the "right" one. But of all your equipment, a mic is probably one of the easiest to upgrade quickly, and also the one piece of equipment that won't always be right for every shoot. In other words, your camera will be with you for a long while, and your editing software you'll want to get to know intimately before you move on to something else, but microphones aren't married to either one. You can start with one and add to your arsenal over the years. There is nothing wrong with starting with the simple $50 audio-technica shotgun just to get rolling and then quickly move up to something beefier. Spending more on a mic will give you better sound but probably for our purposes anything in the two-three hundred range is more than sufficient.

Truly great movie sound is always a combination of clear dialogue, believable background noise/sound and excellent sound effects (door sqeaks, explosions, etc.) To capture all this with one mic is nearly impossible...a lot of it will have to be created afterward when you edit. But to get clear dialogue you'll want a good directional mic...background sound can be recorded separately after the action of the scene is shot and then edited alongside the dialogue later.

You can make good audio better with editing software, but it's next to impossible to make poor audio good.

I use and recommend Vegas Pro, specifically for its ease of audio use and integration of audio and video.

And you can definitely make a great movie with just one camera! Most of the greatest movies ever made only utilized one camera, for the entire history of motion pictures.

Hope this helps, and good luck making your pictures!
 
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movieman1005 said:
... should i get the new camera? plus, if i get a new one, should i get two for comp. scenes and maybe a backup, or can i make a good movie with just 1 and save by 50%? (I have an hi8 also, so i could just use those two if i did want to use two)much appreciated!!!
Click to expand...

I have heard soooo many people consider buying two cameras. I'll ask the question because maybe I am the one who is wrong-headed about this:

When you are shooting a narrative, why do you need TWO cameras? Unless you are shooting two scenes in two different places?

You can't do it for reaction shots or shots from the other direction because your secondary camera would be in the way. The way I always understood shooting for a narrative was this:

You shoot ALL of your shots from the first angle, all wides, all close ups, all over the shoulder shots. Then you MOVE THE CAMERA to the other side and do the same, all wides, all close ups all over the shoulder shots. I figure that is why it takes so long to shoot an actual feature. It's not as if your actors do their lines once or twice and its over. They have to do the lines for every camera angle, right??

In all the time I have talked to people or researched shooting, I have never thought that I would ever have to use two cameras. Plus, it is hard enough to purchase one camera, how are you gonna pay for TWO???

....maybe I am the one who's missing something, am I wrong in thinking this way?

-- spinner :cool:
 
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You're right Spinner. What we did was to shoot the same scene multiple shots, multiple takes, with the same camera. We did have an extra camera for backup and for shots where we had to mount the camera on moving cars. We used the older, more beat up dvx100 for that.
 
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If you used two cameras to get shot & reverse at the same time, the reverse camera wouldn't necessarily be in the frame of camera A, depends on how it's situated..

The best use of two cameras, other than shooting multiple locations simultaneously or if you're doing some big stunt that you only get one shot at... is to put them right next to each other and get a wide/mid/whatever and a closeup at the same time.. but ultimately, it's not necessary on most shoots, and if you're working with a smallish crew it's probably best to just use one.

As for the mic issue.. there were several discussions about mics within just the past week here, you might do well to try a search of the forum (if you haven't yet) ;)

Here's a couple:
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=15116
http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=15093

The problem with the ATR-55 is that it's an 1/8" cable with an unbalanced audio signal.. that's fine if all you're ever going to do is mount it to your camera.. But to get better audio you really need a boom, and then you'll want to use XLR cables, because they are a balanced signal, and it helps minimize extraneous electrical interference that will otherwise ruin your audio recording. Depending on the camera you wind up using that can also mean you'll need a separate adapter (like the beachtek dxa-2s I use with my Canon HV20).
 
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....well, that is what I was thinking.....

I have come in contact recently with people who feel they need 2 cameras and I'm telling them to just move the camera to the other side. Nobody is doing some big stunt because frankly, unless you have a budget of more than what we would call 'low budget', we can't afford to do that generally speaking. Lucky you if you can, but you don't need two cameras....(unless you are doing what I am doing which is shooting rock bands, totally different set up and different needs.)

...and if you intend to shoot on the RED camera? Let's see you get TWO of those....:rolleyes:



-- spinner :cool:
 
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I've used two camera set ups on interviews. As Will said, you can arrange them so they don't 'see' each other. It gives you an extra audio to work with just in case, and saves a ton of time.

B and H photo is a great place to look for equipment. They provide full information and good photos of what they sell. When you figure out what you want, e-bay is always a shot, as well as Amazon.

Chris
 
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Will Vincent said:
spinner said:
...and if you intend to shoot on the RED camera? Let's see you get TWO of those....:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Actually the prodco I've just gotten involved with is budgeting for 2 scarlets.. ;)
Click to expand...

....yeah, but that's a production company. I get the impression that Movieman is a student or at least just starting out. He could probably buy two really good mics for the price it would cost to rent the Red Camera for one day. You kinda can't suggest to students that they rent major pieces of equipment. Its usually unrealistic, they could buy a small camcorder for the price of renting for one day, keep the camera and work on figuring out how to become a better videographer.

I have to look at stuff that way. I'm not a student, but I really don't have alot of disposable income...

-- spinner :cool:
 
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re

THANKS for the help. I have another ?. I've decided to use 2 cameras I already have to shoot my first project. They are quite old, but I should be able to edit them on the computer if i already have the dazzle dvd recorder, right? And i can add SOME effects, right?. Ok, the main ? concerns the mic. If I get one with the xlr cable, which i believe is the better quality one, will i be able to plug it into my camcorder? The 2 that I have are the Sony (cant find the code number right now) but it's an hi8 from 2001. The other one uses vhs, and i its older. Its a Panasonic AG-170. I would search online to get a better idea of each of them, and yes the second one is especially OLD. But they still work pretty well and I think ill wait and maybe get the hv30 when it goes down in price. Anyway, the panasonic camera does have a mic output, however, i dont think the sony does. It has a A/V out input and a S video out input. I dont think these can have a mic. put into them, but tell me if i am wrong. The input on the panasonic just says mic input, but i believe it looks like the modern 1/8 or whatever mic input, so could it be the same or could it still work? Another ?. If i get a mic with xlr (better quality mic, i presume?) what adaptor do i need to get? What cable would i buy, also to keep it longer yet good quality? And now im thinking ill either get a 200 or 300 something mic or something like a sennheiser around 1000. Any suggestions on those? Which one sugg? Thanks again! much appreciated!
 
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Mic Choise

hi Movieman,

i have been a soundman for over 30years and there is no mic that can do it all...i would recomend a few to you, but they would be way out of your price range...

i would sugest that you go with a inexpensive Rode or Audio Tec. mic that has a hypercardiod patern...tighter is better for what you will be doing...to reject more BG Noise...get the DIALOGE...and not that BG....you can record room tones and ambient tracks and effects later...NUMBER ONE is to get the Dialoge...

also an other reason not to start buying expensive mics is that you are not a soundman and will have no use for them in the future...in the future you will be working with a soundman that should own these things...and it takes more that a good mic to get good sound...

so keep it simple and dont spend a lot of money on something you wont need later on...and you can always rent a mic for very little money...or try to borrow one from a friend...

best of luck and keep shooting
 
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