Hey all, I'm just about to finish my first semester up in Video Production and am having a BLAST!
but anywho, I've been looking into getting a camera some time soon and it's pretty much between the Canon XL1s or the Sony HDVA1.

I'm mainly going to be using the camera for shooing weddings and my own short films for youtube/ class projects/ youth film festivals, so I'd lean toward the XL1s, but I also don't want to send money on a camera that isn't going to look good 4 years from now.

So Hd is the future...but should i jump to it now?

P.S. budget is around $2,500 tops.

thanks!

-TR

Buy HDV. Although the codec has some issues, its future proof, DV isnt.

I'm not familiar with the sony camera you mentioned, but the XL1 takes some nice pictures (albeit only standard definition)

I *REALLY* like the image quality I get with my canon HV20... the HV30 is out now, which adds a couple additional features to essentially the same camera I have. For $2500 you could get yourself two of those, a nice tripod or two, a beachtek adapter, and a nice shotgun mic or lav(s).. Multiple cameras would be useful for short film production, and even more so for wedding videography or other live events.

I've herd a lot about the HV20, but I've always seen it's size and been put off. It doesn't look like it has manual/ simi man controls, and does it have the XLR outputs?

How much would it cost to get a lens adapter/ boom/ XLR attachment for the HV20? Cuz I wouldn't mind making my own if I have to.
Thanks for helping Will

-Trevor Roach

I've herd a lot about the HV20, but I've always seen it's size and been put off. It doesn't look like it has manual/ simi man controls, and does it have the XLR outputs?

How much would it cost to get a lens adapter/ boom/ XLR attachment for the HV20? Cuz I wouldn't mind making my own if I have to.
Thanks for helping Will

-Trevor Roach

Well, a 35mm adapter will vary in price, anywhere from virtually free (if you DIY) to over $1000 for the higher end pro units.. A good boom will probably be somewhere in the $100-$150 range, the beachtek adapter will give you 2 xlr inputs that can be switched to either line or mic level, they run about $180ish as I recall (You'd want the DXA-2s (http://beachtek.com/dxa2s.html)) A nice shotgun mic will run you anywhere from about $100 to several thousand, depending on what you get..

And of course you'll also want a nice fluid head tripod, I got mine on ebay, it's an off brand, but it's just as nice as any manfroto/bogen I've ever used and only cost about $150 when I bought it. It's this one (http://cgi.ebay.com/EI-717-Pro-Heavy-Duty-Video-Tripod-Fluid-Drag-Head-Kits_W0QQitemZ140239176013QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_0?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116).

There are ways to make the HV20/30 behave as you'd like (http://dvxuser.com/jason/hv20/).. it DOES have some manual control, even if it doesn't appear to since it's not got all the buttons and knobs the prosumer cameras have..

Buy HDV. Although the codec has some issues, its future proof, DV isnt.

People who say any technology is "future proof" are always disapointed.
HDV is an inexpensive gap format between DV and HD. It will be gone
soon.

It looks like most tape based formats won't last too much longer.

^ Directorik that's one thing I have herd about to, which makes me even more inclined to pick up the Sony HDV-A1. the A1 has a mem card stick slot as well as DV.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/384527-REG/Sony_HVRA1U_HVRA1U_HDV_Camcorder.html

^the Sony HDV-A1U

the only problem with it is it's small size and that I'm kinda nervous to start using HD.
Would you recommend this?

Thanks guys you've been awesome

-Trevor Roach

Well, a 35mm adapter will vary in price, anywhere from virtually free (if you DIY) to over $1000 for the higher end pro units.. A good boom will probably be somewhere in the $100-$150 range,

Will, have you tried any of the DIY projects like the 35mm adapter, jib/crane, or handheld for use with the HV20? I'm leaning strongly towards getting that cam.

I've used the A1U. It's a nice camera. I prefer the older PD170. But I'm not
a fan of HDV. Nor am I a fan of the Canon cameras.

In your first post you mentioned wanting a camera that will "look good"
in four years. The technology is changing. Who knows what will happen
as 2012 dawns? I have a feeling I will still be using my JVC GY-DV5000 (http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/tech_desc.jsp?model_id=MDL101367&feature_id=02)
SD camera that will be 11 years old at that point.

Remember, it's not so much the camera itself as it is the operator. Excellent
lighting, editing, directing and acting go a long way. I imagine that shooting
weddings with the Sony will be just fine for the next four years. And I know
people still shooting weddings with their XL1 whos business is just fine.

Nor am I a fan of the Canon cameras.

...why not? ....out of curiosity....



-- spinner :cool:

Will, have you tried any of the DIY projects like the 35mm adapter, jib/crane, or handheld for use with the HV20? I'm leaning strongly towards getting that cam.

I don't have a 35mm adapter, because shallow focus is but ONE of many elements to achieving a filmic look, and it's one of the more minor ones (funny that people put so much energy into something that is effectively a side-effect, when lighting, blocking, and scene composition are all much more important things to worry about)

I have a jib, but it needs some work.. and I get pretty decent results with the $14 "Steadycam" (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~johnny/steadycam/) stabilizer... it's a bit too small and lightweight to get good footage shooting plain old hand-held.. I guess it would depend on how you're holding it though.

I find it funny how people always have to mention the "major parts of film-making" when they hear even the slightest mention of "35mm adapters":) I know why you guys have to drive it home though - just bust'n a little...

Do you find ways to achieve a shallow dof with the 20?

People who say any technology is "future proof" are always disapointed.
HDV is an inexpensive gap format between DV and HD. It will be gone
soon.

It looks like most tape based formats won't last too much longer.

Its quite true what you said. But think about a external tapeless (Harddisc) solution for HDV cameras. You even have a tape backup than. Thats shurly nice.

Selling a SD cam in 4 years in my opinion (european standpoint) will leave you with a relativly big loss. So I think there are two solutions. By a second hand SD and invest the rest in nice accesories. Or go for HDV.

Oh, and by the way there was an update (hardware) for the panasonic dvx100 called andromeda which made a HD cam of it. Its an experimental approach but might be cheap second hand. And the data sheet looked nice. Not knowing the real world facts.

Do you find ways to achieve a shallow dof with the 20?

Adapt a supertele lens to it and zoom in from 200yards away. The wide open aperture, due to the lens, will add up to the effect. :lol:

Do you find ways to achieve a shallow dof with the 20?
I don't worry about it because it's not that important to me. I'll start worrying about it when I start shooting with a RED sometime next year. ;)

I don't worry about it because it's not that important to me. I'll start worrying about it when I start shooting with a RED sometime next year. ;)

You lucky bum! I'm jealous. Shallow DOF is pretty important to me - do you have any suggestions for achieving that on the HV20 outside of going with the hassle of DIY 35mm adapters. Or better yet can you point me to any online info on the subject? danka btw, what other cams do you currently use?

I'll PM you some links...

Here's pictures of the two I know of that are built specifically for the HV20/30..


Vibrating Adapter:
http://soviet-army.com/gg/alex35mm.jpg

Static Adapter:
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/357/diy35mmpro4lx9xo5.jpg

The vibrating adapter is a bit larger, but it looks a lot larger because there's a pretty large lens mounted on it in that image...

That looks great Will. Could you possibly send me in the right direction for what this kind of camera/ setup would produce image wise? *a video*

also, is there a was to make this have a handle and maybe a extended pad that could be put on a shoulder? *I don't like just 'holding' a camera.

-Trevor Roach

That looks great Will. Could you possibly send me in the right direction for what this kind of camera/ setup would produce image wise? *a video*

also, is there a was to make this have a handle and maybe a extended pad that could be put on a shoulder? *I don't like just 'holding' a camera.

-Trevor Roach

I think that without a seperat monitor it will not fit on your shoulder. The lens itself will be quite far away (balance), also you need special lenses. Usual ("cheap") photo lenses have an issue with zooming while focusing that doesnt look nice when shooting documentary stile.

You don't need "special" lenses, just primes.. ultimately you COULD use zoom lenses, but since the zoom and focal ring are generally shared on a 35mm photo zoom it could be a pain to work with, ultimately it would depend on how easily the lens zooms though.

Yes, there are plenty of ways it can be set up, most solutions involve a rail system of some sort. a lot of people also mount the camera upside down, so that the image doesn't have to be flipped when it's imported.

As for video... here's some sample footage of that first setup:
1 (http://www.vimeo.com/369717), 2 (http://www.vimeo.com/1465419), 3 (http://www.vimeo.com/985157), 4 (http://www.vimeo.com/755119), 5 (http://www.vimeo.com/1428758)

And the second (http://vimeo.com/apo/videos) setup...

There's a forum out there specific to the HV20/30 ... that's a good place to find answers to this stuff, because there are a LOT of posts about it, and there's really no sense in "recreating the wheel" when the info is already out there online.. google it, you'll find it. ;)

The post is really going well. I have 2 Questions. And i have a request that please explain me in simple words so it will be easy for me to understand. I hope you remmeber my language problem.

My first Question

1) What is normally the cost of 35mm Adapter .(I am asking about the price of the adapter which is being shown in the second pic. The smalle sized adapter)

2) Well here i request you to explain me in simple words . My Question is what does this adapter exactly do?
I searched google but i am unable to understand the technical language. As i read it is only used for depth of field but what does it exactly mean? Does it mean an enhanced picture quality???

By the way will can you please paste some pics with and without 35mm adapter? I mean it will really make things more clear (specially for me).

Regards

You don't need "special" lenses, just primes.. ultimately you COULD use zoom lenses, but since the zoom and focal ring are generally shared on a 35mm photo zoom it could be a pain to work with, ultimately it would depend on how easily the lens zooms though.

Yes, there are plenty of ways it can be set up, most solutions involve a rail system of some sort. a lot of people also mount the camera upside down, so that the image doesn't have to be flipped when it's imported.

As for video... here's some sample footage of that first setup:
1 (http://www.vimeo.com/369717), 2 (http://www.vimeo.com/1465419), 3 (http://www.vimeo.com/985157), 4 (http://www.vimeo.com/755119), 5 (http://www.vimeo.com/1428758)

And the second (http://vimeo.com/apo/videos) setup...

There's a forum out there specific to the HV20/30 ... that's a good place to find answers to this stuff, because there are a LOT of posts about it, and there's really no sense in "recreating the wheel" when the info is already out there online.. google it, you'll find it. ;)

Nice videos.

1) What is normally the cost of 35mm Adapter .(I am asking about the price of the adapter which is being shown in the second pic. The smalle sized adapter)
I think... about $200 (USD)


2) Well here i request you to explain me in simple words . My Question is what does this adapter exactly do?
I searched google but i am unable to understand the technical language. As i read it is only used for depth of field but what does it exactly mean? Does it mean an enhanced picture quality???

It makes it possible to have less of the image in focus at any one time. This is desirable to people who are trying to make their video look like it was shot on film, and when used properly can be a good tool to help tell the story visually, by directing the viewers attention to a particular element in the shot (throwing the rest out of focus) Enhanced picture quality? No. If anything it's a reduced picture quality, but people like the asthetic.

By the way will can you please paste some pics with and without 35mm adapter? I mean it will really make things more clear (specially for me).

http://images.camcorderinfo.com/images/upload/Image/Canon/Canon%20HV20/Product%20Pictures/Canon_HV20_Vanity.jpg

Hey Will thanks for the rely. I just didnt made one thing clear when i said Pics with and withour adaPter.i didnt mean the camera with and without an adaPter. i meant that few Pics taken by CAMERA while adaPter is fitted and when adaPter is not attached................ Anyways i have understand what it is used for so now i dont want the Pics ...as i got the idea whats the PurPose of it.

I think Lense is used for enhancing Picture quality

My 48 hour film project entry (http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=13425) this year was shot with the HV20 without a 35mm adapter. You can reference the videos I linked previously for examples with one...

Just saw the film.Camera Results are great.i mean awesome............i cant believe it HV20 can roduce so good results

Just goes to show, the size of the camera is not a proper gauge of the quality it will produce. ;)

You are very correct WILL

That was a cool film will. nice acting!

So we haven't learned about lenses yet in school, and I was wondering, can a 35mm adapt be used only for dialog scenes, and close-ups? or can it be used for a whole project?

Just goes to show, the size of the camera is not a proper gauge of the quality it will produce. ;)

I believe the saying is, "It's not the size of the tool, but the skill of the craftsman... er... craftsperson." :lol:

That was a cool film will. nice acting!

So we haven't learned about lenses yet in school, and I was wondering, can a 35mm adapt be used only for dialog scenes, and close-ups? or can it be used for a whole project?

You could use it for the entire film if you wanted to.. but having to worry about such critical focus along with everything else will make it somewhat more challenging, on both sides of the camera. The camera operator will have to be really good with the adapter, and the actor(s) will really have to nail their marks, or they could easily step out of the focal area.

Okay, I was thinking that would be the case.
So I'm looking into the HV20 and upgrading the heck out of it (within limits) and have come upon this: http://prolost.blogspot.com/2007/06/redrock-gets-it.html

I don't think i'd be getting something exactly like that, but I want a camera that has lots of control, and I like using my shoulder/ hands, more than using a tripod *besides for dialog*.
How much would stuff like that run cost wise all together?

That Redrock Micro setup is kind of spendy, not sure the amount.. But there are cheaper ways to achieve that same kind of result. I just don't have links for it all handy.

That's fine I know where to look.
I've been reading up on this JVC GY HD100U looks pretty neat. I really want a camera that I have manual focus with and manual zoom would be a plus. also it's a shoulder cam and can shoot in hd or sd, which would be good for me since I'm still not ready to jump into hd just yet.

anybody used this camera?

manual focus with and manual zoom

Are these things available in HV20