How small production companies survive

This is a really open ended question. Small companies carve out a business doing things that big companies don't want to bother with. There are as many answers to your question as there are small companies. The small companies I know of, including mine, will do things as diverse as wedding videos and commercials for car dealerships. We shoot corporate training videos, and if we find something we're really good at, we work to build it into a profitable business. Anyone can buy gear; especially larger companies with lots of capital, so the little guy differentiates himself by marketing his unique skills and providing personalized service.

Doug

Doug nailed it... but I'm feeling frisky after getting kicked around the last couple of days, so let me have a crack at it.

The big problem for prod cos these days is equipment is cheap and easy to use... so, basically anyone with a camcorder, a laptop, some business cards and a copy of imovie for dummies can be a prod. co.

However, as everyone and their dog now also owns a camcorder and free editing software to cut their home "movies" on (and I think people know what the Rock is cooking when I say home movies! LOL) it's hard to keep an edge at the macaroni cheese end of the market.

This basically means there isn't an office in the world that doesn't have some Dilbert, who will volunteer to make any videos a they need.

So, in order to survive, a prod co has two options... provide a premium service that can't be replicated by the Dilberts... or create a video based product that fills a niche market. (We've discussed this before, so don't ask)

The other way prod cos survive is by having a skill base that they can sell into the larger companies... so, basically a good DOP will always work... and a good sound guy with his own kit, will be able to turn work down.

These days, with cable TV stations setting up every other day... there is always a station looking for cheap content.

Of course... these are all bread and butter options... the only real way to secure a future for a business is to get into the high dollar content business. Basically any kind of product where real budgets are involved.

Here are the top four...before you ask:

Advertising for global brands.... main station TV production... feature films... and multi-national corporate willy waving. (when the big guys show how big they are by spending stupid amounts of money on showing how big they are.... yes, brands still do this)

Clive, you make a good point about everyone having camcorders, etc. The professional photographers I know and work with are whining that their business is going to hell because everyone has a digital camera and people can't understand why they should pay a professional $2000 to shoot their wedding when Uncle Phil can do it for free with his snazzy new Kodak EasyShare camera.

And then we've got the so-called professionals (the ones who buy a digital SLR and think that qualifies them to charge money for their work) who do such shoddy work that nobody can see the difference between their photos and Uncle Phil's snapshots. That hurts everyone in the profession.

Even when people recognize that there's a difference in quality between a pro and a wanker with a camera (I did not say "amateur", because some amateurs are better than many professionals), they don't necessarily agree that the difference is worth $2000.

Finally, people have been learning to accept lower and lower quality for as long as I've been shooting. My first SLR was a 35mm and at that time everyone told me that was not good enough for professional work. I got a 2x2 inch Mamiya and lugged it around when I was doing serious work. Even magazines were hesitant to publish 35mm stuff. Then came digital still cameras and as they evolved, they were compared to 35mm, as if 35mm was the gold standard. When I was a professional photographer, I always had two studio lights with umbrellas if I was shooting a wedding or any group photos. Now, professional photographers use a single, hotshoe mounted flash.

Since video iPods (and other personal video players) have begun to take over, nobody cares if you're shooting on your camera phone, or a Nikon D200. Content is here today, gone tomorrow. It's all disposable. I'm just going to go stick my head in the oven now. There really is no point, is there?

Doug

Wow... so musicians aren't the only ones suffering from this same problem...

At least we're not so alone I guess...

Best
Hans

(We've discussed this before, so don't ask)

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I remmebr it friend

well by

main station TV production

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you mean satelite tv channels????



Cable TV channels???well atleast young filmmakers have an option to sell their low budget{extreamly low budget} movies to these channels????am i right???

i personally believe these channels dont have any real standards......

and thanks for telling this much about SMall Pro houses.....infact i recently bought a book too which is informative about corporate videos. i mean how to make corporate videos etc but the problem is that In pakistan there is no trend like that.opnly big companies like to make their corporate videos and they never call youngsters no matter how creative he is.they ask for years of experience no matter the guy is how idiot..........[]

How small business co. survive...

Well, I've been in business since 1998, first, started as a part time business and working part time so, the work I do pays the rent, and the money receive from my prod. co. is to upgrade myself. Back then, I only do referrals, I do not advertisement, back then, it was much easier to 'make it' then now, since now everyone (business alike) are trying their best to maximize their earnings while spending little as they can (even with national or international businesses that I've dealt with - museums, clinics, food products, etc).

A while back I posted here a list of some marketing/promotional ways I've done to maximize my visibility, mainly to survive, it takes several approach to get to 1 goal... which including branding yourself, and be careful how you do it to the degree that it also brands the company you represent. Back in 1998, I was branding more about my name, so MDI got 'lost' in the mix, people would say who's MDI again? Johnny's oh yeah... So like what Peter John Ross did (not many know of his name but everyone can associate SonnyBoo and the site)

The next thing is find a niche in your expertise, because everyone is out there doing what you do, and probably charging it less than you do (and most small and medium businesses, even large corporation) would go with them, the best is to, like everything else, be out there, network and tell them who you are, etc. Or find a niche that you do better than others.

For me, my niche (not as a director, because everyone CAN be a director), not as a writer or editor, as everyone of the newcommers got FCP and can easily claim they edit or writes better... so, for me, my niche is I happens to speak Chinese and Spanish plus I have a marketing background, which makes it very enticing to corporations that does business with Asia or South America. (which is why I managed to substain myself with work from these large corporations - doing promotional videos for overseas usage that brand/market their products).

As mentioned, having a niche doesnt mean much, you have to go out there, show yourself, most of the businesses I got was due to me in the right time and the right place that 1 business owner or marketing director happens to need someone of my experience... At the same time, since I've been out and about branding myself, these people feels that my voice weighs some valid points and although my price can be a bit more expensive than the average John Does or newcommers, they would go with me because they knew me.

Now, with television stations (locally here), it's a very very very different envrionment. IF you think making movies or getting into the film industry is difficult, wait when you try to get into the television networks. Unless you have or know someone from the INSIDE, the chances that you get a gig from them is 'minimal'. (sounds like what would happen to everywhere you go, but personally, it's worst in the tv world).

Because of economy, many TV stations are trying their best to 'bundle' commercial spots spread with the free 'shooting or editing' of such commercial... so they can rack in $10,000 or more and in return they throw you the commercial editing/shooting free. Imaging that, local/regional/small to medium and sometimes large corporations would agree to advertise with the benefit of they would shoot it as well, hence minimizing a production company's opportunity.

Museums are perhaps a good 'door in' many US museums have enough funding that they tend to, even though they have their internal media department, they would still 'want' to outsource to the best bidder, there's a simple reason: they need to 'justify' their nonprofit spending of $ so next year they can get the same amount of $ (grants, etc) and so if spent to their in-house people, it's harder to justify... but if you know their media department or their board of directors, you chances to get in increases...

Indie filmmaking, it's VERY hard to make some money from them, as everyone's broke but you may bartel or work out some sort of deal...

Anyway, does this sound like what musicians are going through? yes. and it will get worst when the economy get worsen, because less people willing to pay, while many thinks having a basic video is good enough (or they think it's better).

These are some of the stuff I've experienced since being in business since 1998, doesn't mean it's right or wrong, but just areas that I've lived and learned.

Johnny Wu
www.mdifilm.com

OK... firstly, the question about how you can trust the distributor:

Basically, most film business problems are identical to the problems faced by any business. How does a Pakistani tobacco company know that it's getting a fair deal from a wholesaler in the UK?

All businesses have to conduct research, in order to establish that the deal they are getting is fair. One way a company will do this, is to look at existing products sold by the wholesaler and then contact those companies and ask them whether they'd recommend that wholesaler... even better than that is a referral from a Pakistani company who has already worked with them.

This is one of the reasons that most businesses depend on networking... this is the reason company CEO's play golf, because it's on the golf course that people can have informal conversations about the business.

The film industry is no different from the tobacco industry... (yes, films give you cancer) and actually a lot of the networking also takes place on golf courses (LOL)... but actually, what this means is it's dangerous to be film producer and work in isolation. You have to be part of the film making community... of which being here is a start... but in real terms it means getting yourself to whatever film festivals are running in your region (I would suggest both in Pakistan and in India)

In terms of dealing with contracts:

There will be media lawyers in India who deal with UK distribution issues and also probably in Pakistan.

In fact I just typed "Pakistan Film Industry" into google and found this Lollywood

(Why does nobody do basic google searches before asking questions? - sighs)

So, now that we've established that there is an industry in Pakistan... it's also pretty obvious that there is also an established Uk distribution pipeline... I mean this site is in English, so there is an english market.

(did I mention, that I spent fifteen seconds finding this out, on google, without any prior knowledge of the Pakistani film industry)

Adsel, I admire your enthusiasm... but dude, you've got to take some responsibility for doing basic research... and you've got to start talking to people that are working in the industry, in your region. From the look of that site, Pakistan has a pretty well established film industry (OK one that was struggling in 2006... but it does exist.

Does anyone mind if I just sit here and shake my head for a few hours...

i know your comment on me is right but i dont know why i feel you people more trust worthy and reliable

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We're not. You have no way of knowing, who we are or whether what we're saying has any merit. For all you know I could be some guy who has never made a film, but due to chronic agoraphobia has spent the last five years reading stuff online that I then pass off as my own.

If you meet people with production companies, in your own country you'll have a much better chance of making the breaks into the industry.

And, you ought to be questioning your motivation for feeling safer here... because, the truth is here, you only have to ask questions... when you stand in front of a real person they are going to judge you on who they perceive you to be.

I've seen this a lot... I've even got a name for "indie ghetto syndrome" ... which is the fear of having contact with the industry, because you fear you're not good enough and that people will judge you. The only way to get out of the ghetto is to face both that fear and the possible rejection.

If I was you, and not a 46 year old hack... I'd be trying to get job placements as a runner or PA in a big Pakistan film company. Get in there, do menial jobs, learn the ropes, get business contact and then at the same time develop your ideas... when you opportunity comes, pitch your ideas and see if you can make a break for yourself. This is a much better idea than buying a camcorder and setting up your own production company.

In the twelve years I've been an indie, I've only seen one other indie go from here into the majors... and he's a screenwriter. I'm getting pretty close... and I'm a screenwriter.

Other than that, I see the same names and faces, year in, year out... not here, but all over the net.

This is a criticism... I happen to think the guys here are great. I also happen to think you couldn't have a nicer set of friends... but I'd be lying if I persuaded you or any other film maker that film forums are a route into having a major career. The guys here are passionate about film... they make films, they know how to get stuff done. But, this isn't the place careers get built. (and guys, you know I mean this with the upmost respect)

Now, this is just my perspective... rik, will probably tell you that getting a camcorder and making films has worked for him... and he'd be right. So, there you go... none of us have anymore wisdom than our experiences. So, even when I say something I know to be true... I'm also aware that Rik proves the opposite is also true.

There is no simple answer... but I can guarantee that you'll have much harder time making the translation from indie to the majors, than you would as an intern or PA who climbs their way up inside the industry.

clive said:

basically anyone with a camcorder, a laptop, some business cards and a copy of imovie for dummies can be a prod. co.

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Oh, man, that is so friggin' true!

Also the comments about people caring less and less about quality. Nowadays you've got experienced cameramen being asked to INTENTIONALLY make the image look crappy -- it's a style choice! Poor souls have got to be tearing their hair out!

Despite 30 years of filmmaking experience, tens of thousands of dollars spent on production and editing equipment, the bottom line that keeps me working is the simple fact that I'm RELIABLE and ACCOUNTABLE. There's such a huge number of complete flakes out there that, even if I lose a client to El Cheapo Productions I usually gain them back before too long because ECP never returns their phone calls and their footage seemingly vanished into a black hole.

I get the job done right and on time, every time. Oh - and incidentally - the quality is pretty good, too.

CLIVE you are just Great








ADEEL AKHTER

www.indie-filmmaking.blogspot.com

Professional vs everyone else.

Clive, I agree 100%. I have even taken work away from several area "professional" companies, basically someone who bought expensive equipment but do not really have the talent or knowledge to do good reliable work on a daily basis. As a small production company, a one man shop with stringers, I need to shoot a wide variety of projects; educational, staff training, weddings, musical/theater events, documentaries, etc. All need to be shot and cut well, and delivered on time for a reasonable price.

clive said:

I've seen this a lot... I've even got a name for "indie ghetto syndrome" ... which is the fear of having contact with the industry, because you fear you're not good enough and that people will judge you. The only way to get out of the ghetto is to face both that fear and the possible rejection.

.

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Clive, I think you've hit the nail on the head with me. I suffer from this "Indie Ghetto Syndrome". Everytime I think I'm ready to spend money on advertising and work at getting gigs, I chicken out after reveiwing some other artist's much better work. I'm very similar to how MDIFLIM started out, i'm currently a part-time post production house and am working with a few film students to make their productions, but overall I'm reluctant on getting larger paying gigs for the fear of not being good enough. So, my strategy is to seek film school students who needed cheap VFX done for their projects, I gain valuable experience and their expectations of my work is low due to what I charge, until they see the finished product. I'm hoping the quality of my work will get my name around their campus and eventually become a known company within the local Indie community. I've gotten in good with a few film and drama Professors who also work with me. I won't be ready to retire from my current employment for a few years yet, so in the meant time, I'm going to use those years to hone my skills and network. I think everyone on here has published excellent comments, it certainly has made me rethink a few options I was going for. Thanks to everyone on here for letting me know that it sounds like I'm at least doing somethings right!

hey thats great to see a reply after a long long time on this post. By the way why these stars are placed in the main page at the front of this topic?? what does that mean? and who places them?? SiteOwner?????

by the way EvsFX08 i liked your strategy.........but do you have any plans for filmmaking? or will you stick to the Post Production work only?

No, not really. I mean my current employer wants me to produce a video promoting our organization, so of course I will. So, sure, I could get into producing, but I don't believe that is my strong point. I like leaving the artistic fliming up to someone else, I'll make it "sexy" with Special Effects. I really think you have to find your arena of specialty, I don't thiink you can be a great filmmaker and post production guy at the same time, I think one might suffer a little. I'd rather concentrate on Special Effects.

You are right EVS...............i am more better in filmmaking then compared to post production.........infact i hate to sit on PC for post pro work.......i only like video editing but even in that i am not very good. i use apro editor who is fast in editing.and i tell him what to edit and what not...........

well best of luck for the Video.i hope you can download it at youtube for us.......

I do have a few videos already of mine on You tube, you can view them at my website if you like- www.envisionvirtualstudios.com. I don't think anyone else would be interested in my organization's production I'm doing, but I may in fact post some portions of it. once I complete the two music videos I'm doing for a client, I know those will be posted as well. I'm looking forward to doing those projects.