I've seen other discussions relating to HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray. Both sides have their passionate followers, those of which usually get into childish name calling. I'm curious what people think here. Do you think HD-DVD will win or Blu-Ray? Why?

I'm torn myself. Blu-Ray claims to sell 2:1 as many discs. They also claim to have sold over 3 million Blu-Ray players including their game console system PS3. (It could be argued they've only sold 400,000-500,000 standalone players.) Blu-Ray also has a consortium of investors all who have a vested interest in how certain things are done. This slows progress down technologically so internal debates can be had. Blu-Ray, until recently, has also been quite a bit more expensive.

Then there is HD-DVD which according to a recent statistic is a slightly more recognizable name. Their players are cheaper, less comity within so the technology advances quicker, have sold nearly 850,000 units including the XBox360 ADDON. So for people who want just a movie player and not a game console system the sales of hardware is in favor of HD-DVD.

Each have four major studio backing them with Warner the only major neutral player. Warner may pick a side come January 7 at CES.

So who do you think will win the "format war" and why? Who would you like to see win?

I went with Blu-Ray and believe it will win the war. First, I like it because I have issues with Microsoft (I detest Microsoft Winblows--a horrible operating system imho--I am a Linux and OpenSource advocat, using Windows software only as needed). But that aside, I went with a Blu Ray player because that is what Blockbuster and Netflix rent, and I watch a movie each night through my membership with Blockbuster.

I went with a Blu Ray player because that is what Blockbuster and Netflix rent, and I watch a movie each night through my membership with Blockbuster.

Netflix rents both and to my knowledge so does Blockbuster Online. I do know that there are a limited number of Blockbuster stores that rent HD-DVD though.

HD-DVD; because "blue-ray" is annoying to say, because it sounds stupid.

HD-DVD is a bit of a tongue twister, but it makes people sound "technical" when they say it and thus making the customer feel smart.

Compare:

"Toss in a Blueray thingy, Bob-Joe!" ... Sounds stupid.

VS.

"Insert an HD-DVD into my unit" ... Sounds Intelligent... and sexy.

Ergo, HD-DVD wins.

Life is short. HD-DVD takes 5 syllables, Blu Ray (not Blue Ray) takes 2 syllables.
Imagine all that extra time you will have with Blu Ray to watch more movies and write more screenplays. :)

At least at my local Blockbuster brick and mortar store they only rent Blu Ray, no HD-DVD. But you are correct in that Blockbuster rents both online, I just checked and you are indeed correct on that. :)

Netflix rents both and to my knowledge so does Blockbuster Online. I do know that there are a limited number of Blockbuster stores that rent HD-DVD though.

Life is short. HD-DVD takes 5 syllables, Blu Ray (not Blue Ray) takes 2 syllables.
Imagine all that extra time you will have with Blu Ray to watch more movies and write more screenplays. :)

But if there WAS no blue ray, you could just call it an HD!

(I detest Microsoft Winblows--a horrible operating system imho--I am a Linux and OpenSource advocat, using Windows software only as needed).

An Open Source advocate and you went with the most closed of the formats, which is owned by just one company, that also happens to own the players AND the movie studio that makes the content? HD DVD is the more open of the standards, and the HD DVD consortium is actually chaired by Toshiba, not Microsoft.

For me personally, I don't know which will win and I don't really care. Content is king and it matters more to me which movies come on which format. And since they're pretty evenly split right now, I can't pick a side.

You forgot a third option in the poll, and that's "neither".

I currently own both formats, a PS3 for Blu-ray and a Toshiba HD-A35 for HD-DVD. Both will be around for at least a couple of years. DRM (Digital Rights Management/Manglement) could eventually give rise to a third major format (another minor format already exists, and that's CH-DVD). Studios are still bickering over DRM.

And without HD-DVD I could say "I got the blues baby, :cool: I am into the blu's, righteous stuff, great res..." :lol:

But if there WAS no blue ray, you could just call it an HD!

I originally backed HD-DVD, but dabbled in BR beacuseof my PS3. I'm always nervous backing a perenial format looser in Sony. But I have been more wowed by SOME Blu-ray movies than HD-DVD. Also BR is getting some better titles and with Blockbuster pushing them ... I wonder may Sony actually win.

Oh there is one more option. BOTH. It iS possible!

Definately Blu-Ray. I have a PS3 and so far the movies and games are absolutely amazing. HD-DVD has it's advantages but Blu-Ray can fit a lot more, I find.

I find it interesting (and this is only an observation, not to pick a fight) that the vast majority of BD owners actually own the PS3, a game console, as opposed to a traditional set top player.

"First, I like it because I have issues with Microsoft (I detest Microsoft Winblows--a horrible operating system imho--I am a Linux and OpenSource advocat, using Windows software only as needed)."

I for one support out Japanese rootkit-installing overlords.

/Wait, no I don't.

To be honest, I have actually thought about just scrapping the whole HD/Bluray thing, going back to just DVD. I got really frustrated at high def when I rented The Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer and my Samsung BluRay player playing the BluRay disc came up with an unplayable error, saying I needed to upgrade the firmware on my BluRay player. WTF?! I never had to do that with plain old DVD. And my BluRay player does upconverting so the DVDs at least look much nicer. I certainly am not buying any BluRay movies, just renting them for now, until a winner is declared in the format/codec battle. Another reason I went with BluRay was that Samsung was a bluray player and my TV is Samsung (60" DLP) and I like the remote to work easily with both.

An Open Source advocate and you went with the most closed of the formats, which is owned by just one company, that also happens to own the players AND the movie studio that makes the content? HD DVD is the more open of the standards, and the HD DVD consortium is actually chaired by Toshiba, not Microsoft.

For me personally, I don't know which will win and I don't really care. Content is king and it matters more to me which movies come on which format. And since they're pretty evenly split right now, I can't pick a side.

wait 10 years to upgrade to HD, then the war will be over and firmware upgrades will be unnecessary. That's what I did with DVD's originally and it worked out fine...did it with vhs/beta as well.

All of these decisions have been financially motivated technology sabbaticals however. (read: I was broke)

I'm still debating. I like the idea of HD-DVD better but I suspect Blu-Ray may win out. Maybe I'll just get each and deal with it later.

I'm still debating. I like the idea of HD-DVD better but I suspect Blu-Ray may win out. Maybe I'll just get each and deal with it later.

This is why it's a conspiracy. Bluray and HD-DVD are conspiring to force all consumers with "collector" attitudes to buy all their favorite movies in TWO formats (which they already HAVE on DVD anyway) so they can cash in TWICE. Then they release BLUE-UBER-HD-RAY-DVD and we'll have to buy everything again....

Riiiight.

I love lamp.

This is why it's a conspiracy. Bluray and HD-DVD are conspiring to force all consumers with "collector" attitudes to buy all their favorite movies in TWO formats (which they already HAVE on DVD anyway) so they can cash in TWICE. Then they release BLUE-UBER-HD-RAY-DVD and we'll have to buy everything again....

Has anyone noticed that the HD DVD and Blu-ray packaging are IDENTICAL except for the color? What a coincidence that two supposedly rabidly competing formats ended up with the exact same package design.

I find it interesting (and this is only an observation, not to pick a fight) that the vast majority of BD owners actually own the PS3, a game console, as opposed to a traditional set top player.

There's a reason for this

The BD-J specification changed as of October 31st, and not one of the standalone players on the market complied before this date (at least nothing below $1000). I started out with a Sony BDP-S300 that cost $499.00 when it hit the shelves. It was a nice player until I started researching the new standard that called for an Ethernet port, increased storage capacity and additional memory (RAM), none of which the S300 had. The S300 wasn't going to cut it, but the PS3 was already prepared with everything but HDMI 1.3a. Then Sony dropped the 60GB PS3 down to $499.00, and they did it within 30 days of my having picked up the BDP-S300. Needless to say, exchanging the BDP-S300 not only netted me a state-of-the-art Blu-ray player, I also got a high-end game console (1080p with 7.1 surround in games = :bow:) and a media hub with built-in wireless connection. And the Cell processor makes Blu-ray loading times significantly faster than most stand-alones. It was definitely a no brainer.

In six months of ownership, I only own two PS3 games (Lair and Resistance: Fall of Man), and rarely play them. In contrast, I own nine Blu-ray titles so far and have rented several. My PS3 is primarily a Blu-ray player. My only complaint about it is that there is a solid chance the PS3 will never bitstream out the high-definition audio codecs for Dolby TrueHD and DTS HD-MA. It decodes TrueHD internally and outputs multi-channel PCM, which is fine for 99% of the folks out there including me, but it can only play the 1.5Mb DTS-HD MA core. My receiver can handle both (Onkyo TX-SR605). This is why I chose the Toshiba HD-A35 because it can bitstream out both formats. And for those who say they can't hear a difference either need better speakers, a better environment and/or better hearing because I noticed the difference immediately when I fired up the HD-DVD player. The difference was subtle, but it was there. There are still only a handful of titles with these HD audio formats so I won't lose any sleep over it. But it's like having 400HP in a Vette. I won't take advantage of it 95% of the time, but it's sure nice knowing it's there when I want it.

This is part of the reason Sony is losing their ass on the PS3. People are using it more for Blu-ray playback than they are for gaming, and it's the games that make the profit for Sony.

Latest update is that the Sony PS3 with firmware 2.10 is now BD-J 1.1 compliant. Very cool. Still won't bitstream the HD codecs, but that's fine. I can do this with HD-DVD if needed.

Now that I've had the opportunity to evaluate both formats, I can't say there will be a clear winner based on quality alone. Over the holiday break, I bought several more Blu-ray titles and about 4 HD-DVD titles. I also calibrated my Home Theater with the HD-DVD edition of Digital Video Essentials. I watched Bladerunner and The Shining on HD-DVD and Spiderman 3 on Blu-ray. All were amazing visual and auditory experiences, especially the Sand Man birth sequence where I'd swear I could see every single grain of sand. Very realistic. Over the weekend while in the aisle at my local Fry's Electronics, I compared side by side the features of the latest Harry Potter film in both formats, and the fact that the special features on the Blu-ray edition were partially in 1080i/1080p, I bought the Blu-ray. I am about to go watch it now (never saw it in the theaters).

Still no clear winner in sight.

Basically, I have no gripes about either format except the extra cost of the "Combo" HD-DVD discs. The extra cost is contrary to the "we're cheaper" mantra because the Blu-ray of Harry Potter 5 was the same price as the Combo HD-DVD disc.

I'm definitely going to wait until the dust settles. I find if I play my DVDs though my laptop on to my HD projector it res'es them up nicely. Plus it took ages for the titles I like to come out on DVD so I imagine it'll take even longer for them to come out on Blu-ray or HD-DVD.

I promised myself that I'd never get stuck with a Betamax again... Never!!!:mad:

Steven

I'm definitely going to wait until the dust settles. I find if I play my DVDs though my laptop on to my HD projector it res'es them up nicely. Plus it took ages for the titles I like to come out on DVD so I imagine it'll take even longer for them to come out on Blu-ray or HD-DVD.

I promised myself that I'd never get stuck with a Betamax again... Never!!!:mad:

Steven

I hear this a lot, too, that SD DVD discs look almost as good as HD when upconverted, and there's some great technology available now that can do it. Both the PS3 and my Toshiba HD-DVD player upconvert very well. Problem is, you can't add detail that isn't there to begin with.

I spent the weekend again tweaking, calibrating and testing my home theater. There were still some bugs that needed to get worked out. On a 73" DLP at 1080p, these differences are very noticable (high bandwidth connection required for this link):

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=811102

After everything was calibrated (picture brightness/contrast, color reproduction and speaker balance), I watched Transformers for the first time since seeing it in the theaters. I have a much greater appreciation now for the work involved in putting that film together. The CGI is simply breathtaking and so is the sound quality. This is not a movie you can watch just one time to appreciate. I also watched Close Encounters on Blu-ray last night, and it was also a very enjoyable experience. It has never looked and sounded this good in consumer hands.

On a side note, I discovered first-hand yesterday the benefits of clean power. The Toshiba player was very susceptible to A/C noise. It must not have built-in filtering (and the PS3 has a grounded power cord, so it was fine). I was getting an annoying hum in the speakers using the HDMI connection on the Toshiba. The hum was gone after installing a Home Theater power center with A/C filtering.

And this isn't like Betamax. I don't recall studio exclusives back in those days. The amount of content becoming available in both HD formats ensures that my HD investment was not in vain. One of these formats may eventually go by way of the Laserdisc. But no matter what happens, I can still enjoy the movies that I already own for years to come.

I was talking with my friend Bill about this, and he says that Microsoft is backing Toshiba on HD-DVD purely to stave off Blu-Ray from taking over the home-video market while they work on digital HD downloads... makes sense... I rent most movies through my TV with Rogers on Demand... Within 5-10 years, computers and televisions will be synonymous, and if Microsoft (or Google for that matter) is working on fast-streaming HD video downloads, then the argument Blue Ray VS HD-DVD will become pretty much moot... or at least, due to VPTurner's good arguments about Blue Ray being primarily done through PS3, and PS3 making their money off games, Sony will probably loose out.
So it makes sense...

I was talking with my friend Bill about this, and he says that Microsoft is backing Toshiba on HD-DVD purely to stave off Blu-Ray from taking over the home-video market while they work on digital HD downloads... makes sense... I rent most movies through my TV with Rogers on Demand... Within 5-10 years, computers and televisions will be synonymous, and if Microsoft (or Google for that matter) is working on fast-streaming HD video downloads, then the argument Blue Ray VS HD-DVD will become pretty much moot... or at least, due to VPTurner's good arguments about Blue Ray being primarily done through PS3, and PS3 making their money off games, Sony will probably loose out.
So it makes sense...

I forgot to mention that I did run into my first disappointment with the PS3. Remember my comment that the hardware may not be capable of ever bitstreaming the HD codecs because it's not HDMI 1.3a capable? Well, Close Encounters has a DTS HD Master Audio track, and I couldn't hear it in all its glory because the PS3 can only decode the 1.5 megabit core audio of that track. The Dolby track has a higher bitrate so I ran with the Dolby track, but it's not Dolby TrueHD. And this movie is only available on Blu-ray. If this trend continues, the PS3 will get sold and replaced with a standalone player as they get more mature and feature complete. The recently released Sony BDP-S500 caught my eye.

What can I say. I absolutely love movies and am anal about experiencing them the way they were intended. And movie theaters lately keep annoying me because they don't have experienced projectionists around here (this is one reason I really miss being in the L.A. area). I can't tell you how many films I see where they had the sound levels wrong, the screen set to the wrong aspect, or the projector was out of focus. Plus, crying kids and cell phone users. And who the heck in their right mind brings children to rated R movies?!?

Plus, crying kids and cell phone users. And who the heck in their right mind brings children to rated R movies?!?
Seriously, I got dragged into seeing Saw 4 and there were at least 4 families in the theater with children. It's baffles the hell out of me that these people are presumably ok with what they're exposing their children to. I remember being 6 years old and being scared to death of Freddy Kruger when my step-brother exposed me to the first Nightmare on Elm Street movie... Can you imagine the nightmares these kids will have seeing a movie like Saw 4 where a woman literally gets her rib cage ripped out her body in full graphic detail?

I swear, I lose more and more faith in humanity everyday.

Its over. Warners & New Line back Blu-Ray and dumped Hd-DVD. This leaves virtually NO exclsuive deals for HD-DVD.

The war is over. Get ready to sell your HD-DVD players and collection. It's about to go the way of Beta Max, UMD, Mini-Disc and Lazer Disc.

Its over. Warners & New Line back Blu-Ray and dumped Hd-DVD. This leaves virtually NO exclsuive deals for HD-DVD.

The war is over. Get ready to sell your HD-DVD players and collection. It's about to go the way of Beta Max, UMD, Mini-Disc and Lazer Disc.

Yup, only major studio left is Paramount and I'm sure they'll cave within the next 3 months. That was a rather short battle.

Yup, only major studio left is Paramount and I'm sure they'll cave within the next 3 months. That was a rather short battle.

You forgot Universal.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/featurewarnergoesblu_10608.html

And Paramount can't cave since they signed an 18 month exclusivity.

Not over yet, except the "Betamax" format is the one that may win this time. HD-DVD is the VHS player of the HD wars.

It's still about content. The main reason I bought an HD-DVD player? Transformers.

BTW, Toshiba is none too happy about this, citing existing contracts:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/1326

Ah, I did forget about Universal!

I still think there's a large chance Paramount and anyone else that has signed exclusive contracts could opt to buy out the remaining deal on the contract if it make sense for them business wise. I mean, there's no way Paramount would sit idly by with crappy HD sales when they could be making a better profit with Blu-Ray. After all, that exclusive contract they signed was only what... $118 mil or so? That's nothing to them.

In short guys HD-DVD is fucked. Bottom line. I dont want it to be but its fucked more than a cheal whore on a buck a shag nite.

Well, personally I think both formats were doomed to fail anyway considering that DVDs are still enough quality for the majority of people... so maybe HD-DVD will die off in the next year or so... people are still having issues with BluRay... I bet you within 5 years, both formats will go the way of the Laserdisc and Digital Downloads (or a new, undiscovered format) will emerge victorious.

I was talking with my friend Bill about this, and he says that Microsoft is backing Toshiba on HD-DVD purely to stave off Blu-Ray from taking over the home-video market while they work on digital HD downloads... makes sense...

That's a conspiracy theory that has yet to be proven. I wouldn't put it past Microsoft but I wouldn't accept this as fact until there is some proof.

Bill Hunt over at The Digital Bits made a comment on Fri. that he thought as a show of good faith the Blu-Ray Association should offer discounts to HD-DVD users and the studios should exchange HD-DVD versions of their movies for Blu-Ray. Then today he mentioned he was talking to BR Assoc. people this weekend during CES and apparently they are already planning something to help ease the transition for HD-DVD users to Blu-Ray. If it turns out to be true it's a nice gesture on their part.

In short guys HD-DVD is fucked. Bottom line. I dont want it to be but its fucked more than a cheal whore on a buck a shag nite.

If this scenario plays out, then you're right:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dc409afa-bd75-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=e8477cc4-c820-11db-b0dc-000b5df10621.html?nclick_check=1

But now Sony is offering to throw the HD-DVD camp a bone, so there's no telling. There are over 200 HD-DVD movies in play, so consumer investment (like mine) in the format won't be a total waste.

And the fact that I chose Blu-ray over HD-DVD for Harry Potter 5 shows that even my sentiments were turning Blu. None too happy considering I just dropped about $600 (well, my wife did - it was my Christmas present) on HD-DVD stuff. I was banking on the Paramount/Dreamworks exclusive. But that's what I get for having to be "state-of-the-art". :lol:

If this scenario plays out, then you're right:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/dc409afa-bd75-11dc-b7e6-0000779fd2ac,dwp_uuid=e8477cc4-c820-11db-b0dc-000b5df10621.html?nclick_check=1
I feel like a physic. :lol:

It would be awesome if the Blu-Ray camp did help with the conversion, completely unexpected -- but hell, Sony would probably just being doing it to rub it in the face of HD-DVD, they finally made a format that didn't flop after some 30 years.

An article I came across on BBC News today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7176185.stm
The backers of the Blu-ray high definition DVD system are predicting victory in the format wars with HD DVD. The two rival camps have divided consumers since the two incompatible systems were launched. But Blu-ray supporters are touting the decision by Warner Bros to shift allegiance as a tipping point....

Rumor has it the agreements signed allowed them (Paramount and Universal) to break agreement if Warner left the HD-DVD camp.

Wow. IF sony does do that then I'll be amazed. Then again of late they have become some what desperate so I wouldnt put anything past them....

At the end of teh day only one group looses. US. The consumer.