Need some advice camrea/computer

Welcome!!

After a long investigative process, I decided on getting a Mac with Final Cut Studio 2. It was well worth the money.

However, you may want to start small. Get a Mac and play around with the new version of iMovie first. This may be all you need unless you're going to start editing feature length features.

Good luck!

thanks loudorangecat, i am probaly going to go with final cut, in our school we have version 6 and i love it. now are all Macs the same? or is the g5 the best

When you purchase your mac for video you need to consider a few factors:

1) The chip (faster the better, dual and quad chips sets better than single)
2) The video card (the more expensive the better... many of the cheaper macs can't be upgraded, so you have to choose wisely)
3) The porting opportunities (RAID is best, but you'll not want any machine that can't use firewire 800)
4) How much ram you can cram into the thing. (cheaper macs are often limited to 4Gb, the more expensive ones aren't)
5) data transfer rates to your hard drives (video eats space, so you'll need external storage... the rate data travels between machine and hard drive is the single biggest limit on what your machine can or can not do)

G5 is pretty old technology now. But, as you can still do lots on the older G4's (if you don't want real time effects). The G5 is a good purchase if you can get a good second hand unit cheaply. However, many second hand G5's are as expensive as new Intels... so, that's a difficult choice.

However, the newer Intel unit are definitely faster and most of the sexiest apps film makers need, are now geared to perform best on Intel chips.

If you've got significant money to invest, this is the kind of thing you should aspire to: Mac Turnkey System ... but remember you'll need to buy monitors, keyboard, mouse and probably a RAID data storage system fast enough to handle HD transfer rates. (Big bucks for a machine that will do almost anything)

However, at the other end of the scale are the 24" imacs

These are more than adequate to get the job done, and although the video card isn't ideal, they at least have firewire 800, which will allow half decent data transfer rate to external firewire drives. However, you can't upgrade the video card and you're limited to the amount of RAM you can slam into it.

The other thing is, you'll probably want to get more than just FCP. In terms of getting a high quality end result, you'll probably need Photoshop, After Effects and Automatic Duck as well!

DerekPb said:

also.
should i save up and buy a better camrea, or get that when the time comes?

Click to expand...

I started using the very first camera I could afford. It was
bottom of the line. I'm glad I started shooting movies rather
than wait until I could afford a better camera. I found out very
quickly that there is so much more to making movies than the
camera. I learnd lighting, sound recording, scheduling, location
scouting and working with actors. All with a bottom of the line
camera.

I don't know if my personal experience is of any value to you, but
my advice is to make as many short films as you can using
whatever equipment you have available.

I cut 7 features, 11 music videos, 2 documentaries and a bunch of
personal stuff using a G4 and Final Cut 3 and 4. I'm currently
using Studio 2 on both a G5 iMac and my G4 laptop. Of course the
faster the processor and the more RAM you have the faster things
will go, but any G5 with FCP is going to be fine.

Actually, directorik is right -- as usual.

If you're looking for a really cheap Mac, that will get the job done, you don't even need to go G5 -- a top of the range Dual G4 refurb is usually incredibly cheap and some of them even have firewire 800.

But, with that said... I still think you should go for the best machine you can afford.

For what you're doing, a new iMac is probably a good balance of power and affordability. Or, better still, a new Macbook Pro. A little bit more expensive, but you get the added benefit of portability.

iMac or a mac mini will handle (with big harddrives and as much ram as they'll fit) final cut studio...they're both intel based now and fly like crazy on the newest version of final cut studio. It won't be as fast as you can run the program, but it'll be faster than a G4 certainly...most likely, it'll be faster than my dual G5 as well...the difference is that I can stuff tons of ram and disk space into mine. So think smaller than you are, it'll still run well and save you money that you could upgrade your camera or better yet, microphone and/or lighting.

I'm with knightly on this one... you need something that will do the job for editing, but it doesn't have to be top of the line by any means -- as he said, an iMac or mini will take the task in stride. As for storage, look to external drives and just deal with the max memory you can for either option..

But rather than a camera upgrade, your best money spent will be toward lighting and/or audio. Whether that's money spent to purchase gear, or set aside for gear rental. These are the two MOST important parts of capturing quality footage, and ironically the two pieces most often treated as unnecessary.

Most people would much rather watch a really well lit, well miked, shot-on-a-single-chip; SD film than a poorly light, horrendous sound, HD(V) film. Why? Because it's probably a whole lot more watchable.

thanks alot guys, you all helped out alot.
i never relized how important lighting/sound really was.
im probaly going to go with the iMac.
then get into some new lighting/audio.

The truth is, choosing the right machine isn't easy. Mainly because you're not just buying a machine that will handle what you're doing now, but what you'll want to do in two years time.

I'm currently having to make the same decision... I need to upgrade my editing suite, but as usual I'm broke. So, do I go for an older, cheap pro macine (knowing I can upgrade at least some of the conponents). Or do I go for a cheap domestic intel, which will be tons faster?

I don't think the decision is that easy to make.

If all you're going to do is shoot on DV or HDV and layback to DVD, then pretty much any machine will do the job.

But, what happens if in two years time you decide you want to make a feature film for cinema release and because camcorders offer more and more HD options with every year, you want to shoot it on some new camera that creates huge amounts of data.

However, with all that said... I'm with Will all the way. It's better to get a well lit shot with good sound on almost anything, edited on almost anything, than to get bad sound and light on the best camera you can afford.

DerekPb said:

i never relized how important lighting/sound really was.

Click to expand...

This needs to be the title of a thread.

Without exception every new filmmaker has said this - at least
in my experience. We are so concentrated on the camera that
we forget that audio is 50% of the final product. And since all
new filmmakers between 14 and 30 grew up with video cameras
in the house, good lighting is often a second or third thought.
After all, you can get an image just by pointing the camera and
pressing record.

I've got my share of stories of really bad lighting (exposing to the
bright wall behind the actors) and handing a PA the Nagra and
boom, telling him to point it in the general direction. And I've seen
way too many movies with audio recorded with the on camera mic.

I can remember getting a job directing a movie for Vista Street Ent.
- shooting on superVHS. I lit it as if I was shooting film (which had,
until then, been my only experience) and the owner was stunned
that I could get such a good image. It seemed that most of the
filmmakers he hired set up a couple of lights and shot. Because they
could.

Regarding editing: I cut professionally - I get paid - and I use an iMac
that I bought in July 2005. An Intel based Mac is coming one of
these days and I know that I could work faster with a top of the line
system, but the bottom line (for me) is I deliver on time and the
client doesn't know what I cut on.

I agree with everyone who has said external drives are important.
I have a lot of them. Absolutely necessary.

clive said:

But, what happens if in two years time you decide you want to make a feature film for cinema release and because camcorders offer more and more HD options with every year, you want to shoot it on some new camera that creates huge amounts of data.

Click to expand...

On the other hand - if we waited to buy the equipment we need based
on what will happen in two years time, we would never buy anything.
If in two years any of us decide to make a feature for cinema release
we could always buy what is needed then.

I guess we just approach purchasing in a different way.

On average I get four years use out of a machine. My G4 laptop is coming to the end of its useful life. So, when I'm planning a purchase I automatically factor in two things... how the machine is going to pay for itself? And, whether the machine is going to meet my needs for the next four years.

If the machine is cheaper, that means it earns its keep faster, but it also means it's going to need upgrading sooner.

I also factor in how the speed of the machine will effect my work-rate, because if render times mean each job takes twice as long, then the trade of time against money may not be that smart.

Where your "buy for what you need now" approach has strengths, is that you only have to invest in kit when you absolutely know you need it. It's also true that the machine I buy now at full price, will probably be half the cost when I need the additional processing power.

There are advantages to both approaches.

From the professional point of view (one who is regularly getting
paid as an editor) I agree with you, clive. I get the impression
Dered is just getting started and doesn't have a whole lot of
money to spend.

Things like speed, losing a job because of long render times and
paying for the equipment with jobs might not be of top priority
to a beginner. So my advice isn't to a fellow professional, but
to a beginner with very little money.

In that case a smaller, cheaper machine might be the better way to
go. If he decides to earn a living as a cutter then my advice
would be exactly the same as yours.

of course not-quite-powerful-enough-anymore machines could be easily relegated to the beginnings of a render farm.. Though that's only useful if you're doing compositing or 3d work I guess.

Good point, and let's face it the intel mini-macs are dirt cheap. It would be hard to justify anything else.

Question just caught me on a day I was trying to figure out what I was going to upgrade to next... so I had a head full of parimeters.

ok guys i came to a final decesion.
i have 1500 to spend and i chose the sony vx2000.
i am going to make indiefilms, skateboard/bmx clips

is there any other option or camrea that you would suggest before i buy the sony vx2000?

The Canon GL1 and GL2 have a great track record.. but there's not wrong with a VX2000. I *REALLY* liked my panasonic pv-gs200

You are getting alot of good info from alot of knowledgable people. However, I think you said you are still in school and that gives me an idea as to how much money you are working with. When you are a student, it implies that you are just starting out and that there is only so much you have to work with. So this is what I think:

First:
take ALL of the info that you are getting here about what pieces of equipment, go to wherever you are going to make your purchases and look at everything. But JUST LOOK.

Of course you are ready to go and you are enthusiastic and you want to start right now, HOWEVER, there is nothing in the playbook that says you have to make a purchase in the next 15 minutes. So go to the store, look at everything from what you know you can afford to what you would get if money were no object. Then BE REALISTIC about what you can really afford. Figure out what you need in comparison to what you want and weigh what is more important right now. Then get the best that you can. But there is nothing saying you have to run right out and make bad decisions. Make sure you are getting the most bang for your buck and then make your purchases. I am not saying wait a month. I am saying, look at everything, go home, make as informed a decision you can make and then go make your purchases. Hey, its almost Christmas you know

Second;
About Final Cut Pro. Since you are a student, see if you can go through your school and get a student discount on the system. I know people who were at one of the community colleges where I am who did this.

About your camera:
I will say again, and I am sure that alot of these IndieTalkers agree, its not the camera, its the OPERATOR. So since you are starting out, use what you have or can afford and learn SHOT COMPOSITION. There are ALOT of filmmakers out there who need to work on this. You should start now when you are in a position to learn. Plus learn all that good stuff about lighting as well, it will be important.

BTW, the computer I am using I bough almost 3 years ago. It is a tricked out G4 and it does what I want it to do right now. (It isn't a dual, but you should get one if you can) Get all the power and space you can afford. Get the best cards and get going. There are places here on IndieTalk where you can find out how to MAKE your own light kit, something I will be taking advantage of soon. (hey, where is that link anyway, guys?)

Good luck! Have fun, soak up all you can and get started

-- spinner

Are you talking about this link?
http://www.scottspears.net/Lowbudgetinglighting.htm

It should also be mentioned that there is a major discount for students on the Adobe Suite too..