Hey Everyone -

As many may know from another thread, which I can now not find, I've been dabbling in a mySpace marketing campaign for my animated feature film "Flatland." The plan was to make a profile for the movie, and each of the characters in the film. The characters would respond "in character" in a cute way, leaving comments and sending messages as if they actually existed - in a tongue-in-cheek manner.

After about a week of modest effort, I have managed to gather roughly 10,000 unique "friends" for all the characters and the movie. The campaign consisted of myself and my crew (er, wifey) sending out friend requests to people we thought likely to have read the book that the movie is based on, or would be intrigued by the movie's concept. We sent out about 200-300 friend requests per day. Several characters have broken the 1000 mark.

I gave the campaign a rest for a day and still am getting about 1 or 2 friend requests per hour, per character. Some of this is spammed friends, but a lot arenot, based upon some of the comments and messages that the characters get. "Loved the book!" "When's the movie coming out?"

So my plan is this.

1) Take a month (or two or three) to wrap the film up.
2) Have the crew (er, wifey) continue the campaign in earnest while I do so.
3) Sell a "pre-distribution collector's item screener DVD" of the movie to people online, announcing it to the friends when it's available.

I plan on burning the DVD's myself, using printable DVD's (for a nice professional look), etc. Costs for me would be about $2 a DVD. Would plan on selling it for, say, $10.00.

One thing I am wondering about - is there a good company I can use to get a decent shopping cart system to sell the DVD, that will take credit cards, paypal, etc., so I don't have to mess with that end of it?

Thanks! Feedback and holes in the plan would be much appreciated.

this might work. i'm about to try some comment posting for my teaser for The Rapture soon, and see how much this would generate the 'noise' factor for me where they would spread it to their friends or their friends will 'check it out' or it gets deleted. :) hehe

There is always EBAY lol. You can pay in every format there. Just have people linked to your auction. Make sure you put the quanity at like a 100 so you dont have to keep remaking lots. Good luck, Semper Fi

Let me know when it is up LADD so I can go ahead and buy it. I would honestly prefer ebay. I buy alot of crap off there. Mainly because most people dont mind sending to an FPO AP and shit like that. Get to work. I dont know how you do it while serving?

Well, I don't know if EBay is the right choice - I'm selling to individuals. I'd like the shopping cart functions to blend seamlessly with a website I'd build for the movie...

why not use paypal?

I want to do paypal, but I also want to accept Visa, Amex, etc.

Ladd, I know paypal takes credit cards, that's how I sold about 100 copies of A Jokers Card myself. people used paypal to pay for it. One thing that I do not like about paypal is 'it forces' you to create an account thought.

I am about to help a friend create a shopping card for his gallery so we thought of using Paypal for this as well.

Yeah, I want to avoid asking potential customers to make a paypal account. I'd rather it act like a regular shopping cart from a larger company - like a Land's End or something like that.

Actually, Paypal does NOT require the payer to have a paypal account.

Where are you hosting your site at Ladd? Does the host have a shopping cart system? You can't accept credit cards on your own site unless you have a merchant account or piggyback off of someone else's account. It might not be cost effective to get a merchant account. Plus, you'll need SSL certificates and the like to ensure customer data is not compromised on your site.

Interesting. I've been looking at the Paypal thing - seems like the "pro" option might be feasible. Is that what you're referring to, Coot?

We sold our DVD through a custom shopping cart at one time and it cost a fortune (fees, hosting, etc etc). Switched the whole thing over to PayPal and it's been great. Check it out (and buy 500 of them):

www.cayugalakewinecountry.com

With our narrative, we are in the beginning stages of setting up a CustomFlix account to sell the DVD through them. GREAT customer service and it gets your title listed on Amazon (if it's bought through Amazon you take a huge hit). What I REALLY like about CustomFlix is NO inventory. They take care of ALL that. I have a storage room stacked with 4,000 DVDs of the wine trail documentary that have to be sold, packaged, posted and mailed one at a time. It's an endless pile.

With CustomFlix, I have zero.

No, I'm just saying that PayPal does not require payers to have a paypal account. They changed that requirement about two years ago.

I was referring to your website host having a shopping cart. Most of them have one already installed.

Coot, thanks for the clearification, this what I noticed when using paypal, it asked for an email and a 'password' later on 3rd page.. then when you order again, you are asked to do the same and it automatically opens 'the account' page, and if you don't want to use the same info, you have to add an account again, so for me, that's almost like creating a new account in a sublte way. Anyway, I did this like last year...

Don't you have to subscribe to a credit merchant to use the shopping cart feature?

With our narrative, we are in the beginning stages of setting up a CustomFlix account to sell the DVD through them. GREAT customer service and it gets your title listed on Amazon (if it's bought through Amazon you take a huge hit). What I REALLY like about CustomFlix is NO inventory. They take care of ALL that. I have a storage room stacked with 4,000 DVDs of the wine trail documentary that have to be sold, packaged, posted and mailed one at a time. It's an endless pile.

With CustomFlix, I have zero.

Interesting - although the costs seem to be fairly high on small quantities. Not counting time, I can generate a DVD for around $2 a piece while drinking coffee, eating a bagel, and sitting there in my boxers. Their costs, on the other hand, are $7.95 for 1-19 orders. Of course they are providing a box and slip inserts for the DVD's, I was planning on something simpler - like a netflix type of thing, DVD in a little mailing envelope and that's about it...

Would be interesting, though, if I got 500 orders and shipped it through them.

No, I'm just saying that PayPal does not require payers to have a paypal account. They changed that requirement about two years ago.

I was referring to your website host having a shopping cart. Most of them have one already installed.

I'm using yahoo at the moment. I'm pretty happy with their service, but they want extra $$ for a shopping cart system. I'm tending to think the PayPal system is the way to go.

Interesting - although the costs seem to be fairly high on small quantities. Not counting time, I can generate a DVD for around $2 a piece while drinking coffee, eating a bagel, and sitting there in my boxers. Their costs, on the other hand, are $7.95 for 1-19 orders. Of course they are providing a box and slip inserts for the DVD's, I was planning on something simpler - like a netflix type of thing, DVD in a little mailing envelope and that's about it...

Would be interesting, though, if I got 500 orders and shipped it through them.

I guess if you're making between $7-9 per unit, I'd rather opt for less money to NOT have to think about it. They also handle all returns (in case the DVD doesn't work). I have sent them our master, a CD with the sleeve art and face art and they will send me a proof of the product. Once I approve it, the store is "set up" and we begin promoting it. The other nice thing, is it puts you in their online catalog and you can have your trailer on their site.

Man ... you'd think I WORKED for them or something!

I'm a huge believer in customflix...no overhead, no shipping, no headaches. Personally, I wouldn't print them off myself, but thats possible I guess. Best wishes either way, I think you'll find that the profits are similar either way, but going with a place like customflix is virtually no work except marketing....which is a lot easier and worth it in my opinion while you make your first run and then shop for a distributor.

I can't seem to find my old post on my mySpace experiments but I'm here to report back.

Synopsis: 1) I am sorely dissapointed in the mySpace phenomenon and 2) I'd like other suggestions on internet marketing a small indie film that anyone might have.

The Long Form:
Because I have been doing an animated feature film that required a lot of waiting around for computers, I had time to make a lot of friend requests and gather up lots of friends. I had several accounts, one for myself, and one for each of the main characters in my film - you can get the idea here: http://www.myspace.com/flatlandthemovie

All in all I gathered well over 50,000 friends between the different accounts.

I have so far had a disapointing return on purchases. I don't think this is because the marketing content was bad, per se. I think it has to do with the nature of mySpace. Would I buy anything from a fellow mySpace user? The answer is no. So why would anyone buy my stuff without significant "branding" having occured ih other media? I believe that mySpace is only good for branding / reinforcement marketing purposes, but not for targeted sales. There's simply too much garbage to overcome, between the porn bots, the half-clothed Asian club goers, the dj's, and the generally mentally deficient.

I investigated the costs of advertising on mySpace. A crummy banner ad was quoted to me at around $3000.00 as an experimental toe-dip, which would have gotten me a small number of user impressions. It would be interesting to see if I could get them to consider an experiment - perhaps earning money on each DVD sold in exchange for decent advertising as a "featured profile" or some such. It strikes me that mySpace is struggling to figure out how to make money on their system and advertising revenue is not really cutting it. To my mind, they need to go the old "Ronco" route - the system that lets television stations run late night commercials with "special phone numbers." The TV station and the manufacturer of the product do revenue sharing. MySpace could do the same thing. Technology wise they'd easily be able to audit the number of sales they make.

Unfortunately their sales department seems to be stuck in the box in regards to innovations. Ad execs make commissions and outside of the box can mess around with those commissions.

Other problems:
1) Restrictive: I also believe that mySpace is far too restrictive in certain aspects in regards to user interface.
2) You can easily lose track of people that you'd like to keep track of.
3) Messages are deleted after 14 days.
4) It's impossible to know if if you've already sent someone a friend request or not, and you can easily offend people if you're not careful.
5) You can easily get tagged for spamming or have your account semi-disabled, in which you can receive friend requests and messages, but can not respond. This means making a new account to respond to people, then getting tagged, then making another new account, and so on.
6) The number of users that mySpace really has is HIGHLY overreported. If their advertising sales numbers that they give were ever audited like the newspaper industry's I have no doubt they'd flunk it big time.
7) Unless you want to spend hours and hours on how to "trick out" your mySpace profile, it's very difficult to make a profile that looks any good.
8) Posting videos and trailers on the mySpace site are a waste of time. Certainly you'll get people to look at it, but you'll get nothing for it. The "top videos" on mySpace are primarily Rupert Murdoch / Fox productions. They believe in synergy. No point in promoting the little guy's film, those are always shoved to the back no matter how many views they get in a day or not.

So in the final analysis, unless mySpace considers working out deals with indie filmmakers to do revenue sharing, I consider mySpace marketing a lost cause.

So if anyone has any suggestions on other cheap and effective internet marketing I'd love to hear it. Hope I've been of help to anyone considering such a venture. Thanks!

This generally supports my thoughts on the site as a useful business tool as well...too much clutter. Thanks for doing the research for us :) I still think it's a good site for keeping track of friends and rediscovering ones you've lost track of...other than that, not much going on there.

Thanks Knightly. Unfortunately mySpace is no panacea for the big bucks. Was hoping that there was something out there that could be. Metacafe. Atomfilms, YouTube aren't really it either - the research I've done on both makes me feel as if they have too many drawbacks for it to be profitable for the feature film maker to get involved in.

Metacafe has a lot of issues, mostly technical, in their producer's program.

Atoms films is too fractured and is losing its inertia.

YouTube is waaay too factured....

I don't know, anyone have any thoughts on those as marketing channels?

Ladd - you touched on a point that has always interested me as I try to figure out new ways to reach people interested in buying my movies.
Would I buy anything from a fellow mySpace user? The answer is no.
As filmmakers ourselves, it seems we would naturally be buying films from other filmmakers like us - films made by no name directors, starring no name actors.

But we don't.

At least not any any significant level. How many movies like that did you buy last year? ----pause as you calculate-----

Not very many. Me either. Our fellow filmmakers aren't the audience. So what is our market? Who do we hope will buy our movies?

I merged the two threads for you.

Who do we hope will buy our movies?
As I hang my head in shame, I confess that I don't make movies that are expected to compete with "When Harry met Sally", or "Second Hand Lions" -- a couple of my favorites. I make movies that appeal to niche/fetish groups and I market them accordingly. My DVD sales revenue for January is just over $300 so far. I sold just under $2000 in DVD in 2006. Nobody's getting rich here, but it justifies the equipment costs. I think if I were actually making and marketing movies full time, I'd at least be in the $10K/year range ... not enough to make ends meet. For me, it's always going to be a mix of work-for-hire, and independent production.
I am probably just a pessimist, or a pragmatist, or both, but I believe you must identify your audience, find out what they want, and what they're not getting in mainstream movies, then tailor your product accordingly.
Before anyone attacks me on artistic integrity, please understand that's not what this is about. This is about paying for the equipment, and making enough money that the IRS will let me claim all of those expenses on my tax return. I don't expect to make money, when I'm doing something that is strictly for creative expression. I do believe that my creative vision goes into everything I make, but in the end, a business venture is for the purpose of making money, and a creative venture is for my own self expression. The two seldom come together.

Ladd - you touched on a point that has always interested me as I try to figure out new ways to reach people interested in buying my movies.

As filmmakers ourselves, it seems we would naturally be buying films from other filmmakers like us - films made by no name directors, starring no name actors.

But we don't.

At least not any any significant level. How many movies like that did you buy last year? ----pause as you calculate-----

Not very many. Me either. Our fellow filmmakers aren't the audience. So what is our market? Who do we hope will buy our movies?

Marketing to other filmmakers was never my intent. They're few and far between. But to back up a moment...

I think there are only two things a movie needs to achieve success. 1) A hook - which can come in many forms - a name actor, rave reviews, cool sfx, strange style like "Blair Witch", whatever - and 2) the marketing power to get that hook to the audience. That can be through advertising or it can be footwork. Press releases, paid banners, etc. You've got to have both 1 & 2 to get that intended audience person to plunk down their cash.

My film's hook - such as it is - is that is adapted from a well known book. Which indicates my intended audience: people who've heard of or read the book. But, with no financing, I am left stuck on number 2, marketing the hook, except to go the usual routes - film festivals, press releases, and the like. Which I suppose I am going to have to do.

It would be great to avoid all of that and somehow market straight to the world without spending a lot of money. I'm investigating a couple of avenues in this regards and will report back if any of them bear fruit.

As I hang my head in shame...

Heck, I wouldn't feel any shame. For what it's worth, I don't expect any indie filmmakers to buy my film, and I certainly don't feel that they are obligated to purchase my work simply because we're colleagues. I'd much rather have 10,000 or 20,000 sales to the general public. If my intended audience were indies, I'd be making "how to" videos on animation or editing or guerrilla filmmaking, etc. I'd be mildly dissapointed that someone from the forum didn't buy then, but I wouldn't be surprised since most indies are time rich and cash poor.

The only reason I placed my DVD as an item on the Indie forum, in fact, was on the off-chance that a distributor was cruising around looking around for new property... not to sell to my fellow indie posters.

Actually, I'd like to buy a copy of everyone's movie from this forum, because I am sincerely interested in what everyone is doing, and I'd like to ask questions about how they did certain shots, etc. I don't have a good reason not to buy a copy of everyone's DVD, except that I've always got some other priority staring me in the face that distracts me from those "fun to do" things. Hell, I'm not sure I'd find time to watch them, if I did buy them.

Time is always my biggest constraint. There is never enough time to do all the things I want to do.

Actually, I'd like to buy a copy of everyone's movie from this forum, because I am sincerely interested in what everyone is doing, and I'd like to ask questions about how they did certain shots, etc. Then you'll want to buy Sonnyboo's new DVD. :)

Time is always my biggest constraint. There is never enough time to do all the things I want to do.

I know exactly what you mean...

In fact I am now going to go about setting up my first press release for the film. Perhaps some publicity will drive up sales. We'll see & I'll report back on my progress.

I'll be getting a copy as soon as I've paid up all the bills from my last shoot. Kinda tapped atm, but Flatland is on the list. http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_pac.gif

No opinion on the MySpace thing, or other marketing ideas.

I'll be getting a copy as soon as I've paid up all the bills from my last shoot. Kinda tapped atm, but Flatland is on the list. http://www.stevenrichards.com/images/smiley_pac.gif


Awesome! I hope you'll like it.

I've been also thinking that this may be the harbringer of new things in the indie world. I think feature films are going to go the way of the novel - eventually technology will allow anyone to make a film, just as anyone can write and publish a novel today at relatively little expense. Already has - look at me with "Flatland." It then is just a matter of skill and talent, not money or business savvy or who you know.

So you'll have an exponential increase in product - already sort of happening with YouTube, I-tunes, all that. And then, with the fractured marketing world - negating the effectivness of television advertising and even of the press - it will be make it nearly impossible to advertise effectively for any big-budget Hollywood films.

I give it four or five years, tops, before everything's washed away.

If I'm not mistaken, Lucas cited these reasons for his decision to drop out of the feature world altogether because of the fractured marketing world expenses. He thinks it'll be all about television series - getting an audience hooked on the series and watching all of the episodes in various media - DVD, internet, etc. I'm not so certain if that's a winner of a concept or not. We'll see.

If the issue of micro-marketing for the indie film can be solved, it may open up a new financial world for all filmmakers; if not, it may relegate all filmmakers to the dustbin of the novelist, toiling away in a basement somewhere in relative obscurity, with only the occasional "blockbuster" coming out. But that blockbuster will be something wholly different in scale than what we've got now.

I think we're talking 10,000 or 20,000 units sold over the course of a year, for maybe ten or fifteen years. As opposed to hundreds of millions of dollars over the course of a year or two.

Almost like studying dinosaurs and their extinction. I think we've passed the "big dinosaur" stage in the film world and are now transitioning into the "small furry mammals" stage. Lightweight, inexpensive, warm blooded. And far less spectacular than a T-Rex.

We already see this happening to the music industry in a big way. Concert sales down. Record sales down. They blame it on downloads and piracy, but no - it's fractured marketing.

So maybe it's of small comfort to think that while we may not be T-Rexes, by gum, the T-Rexes ain't gonna be around much longer...

I have been using Fark.com to get news stories for a while, and just realized they have a classified section.

It's a rotating thing like a local cable company, but for $40 you get 7 days exposure, a feedback forum, and a load of potential viewers. They claim 10,000,000 people will be looking, but who knows how accurate that is.

Here's the details. http://www.fark.com/farq/classifiedad.shtml
I'm going to give it a whirl for some non video stuff, might be worth a look!

Neil

So maybe it's of small comfort to think that while we may not be T-Rexes, by gum, the T-Rexes ain't gonna be around much longer...

I really like the T-Rexes. As a devil's advocate here, I'd like to point out that the folks who end up making GOOD watchable stuff have bunches of experience and time/money to dedicate to this pursuit. The movie goer (myself included) wants to watch spectacle on the screen and hork down butter drenched popcorn. Spectacle takes money...That much money takes a studio. As long as they can find a meal, the T-Rexes will remain the dominant species. Right now, they are better hunters than we are...we gets nuts and berries for now...(looks in mirror) mostly nuts.

must ramp up exposure...and convince the public to part with their hard earned cash...Flatland probably has more chance than my feature - to be quite honest :(

Have you tried a YouTube clip? Like a viral sort of thing. Perhaps a funny short scene from the film.

I wish clive weren't away on business or he could give a better idea for viral marketing. But I've always thought the right clip on YouTube could gather a lot of interest.

Poke

I really like the T-Rexes. As a devil's advocate here, I'd like to point out that the folks who end up making GOOD watchable stuff have bunches of experience and time/money to dedicate to this pursuit. The movie goer (myself included) wants to watch spectacle on the screen and hork down butter drenched popcorn. Spectacle takes money...That much money takes a studio. As long as they can find a meal, the T-Rexes will remain the dominant species. Right now, they are better hunters than we are...we gets nuts and berries for now...(looks in mirror) mostly nuts.

Ha! Well, I have to admit I like the T's too. I'd rather be one myself. Which makes their imminent extinction a rather sad thng... but perhaps technology will find a way to cure the marketing issues in time to preserve their DNA. And allow the mammals to come down out of the trees and partake in the feast.

I am working on a youtube and a metacafe campaign as well. But it strikes me that with so much fracturing, it'll be difficult to use either to good effect. Sort of like spitting in the sea... the only way to get noticed in all the turbulence is to be aggressive, which can expose you to accusations of spamming.

You may be underestimating the number of people you can reach on the "fragmented" internet. If you can get 2 million people to see your promotion (a small number on the internet), and you can convert 1% of those to customers (a rather low conversion factor), you'll sell 2000 copies. Take that money, and put some of it back into targeted advertising, and you'll sell another 5000. If you have low overhead, you could net $10/copy. That may not be enough money to interest T-rex, but it gets my attention.

I'm not saying "think small", I'm saying you may have to leverage early sales to expand future sales. You must be more hands-on, and iterative than the T-rex who just launches a media campaign some time before the release.

You may be underestimating the number of people you can reach on the "fragmented" internet. If you can get 2 million people to see your promotion (a small number on the internet), and you can convert 1% of those to customers (a rather low conversion factor), you'll sell 2000 copies. Take that money, and put some of it back into targeted advertising, and you'll sell another 5000. If you have low overhead, you could net $10/copy. That may not be enough money to interest T-rex, but it gets my attention.

I'm not saying "think small", I'm saying you may have to leverage early sales to expand future sales. You must be more hands-on, and iterative than the T-rex who just launches a media campaign some time before the release.

I agree totally with your numbers vis-a-vis conversion of 1% etc. Certainly gets my attention, too. The issue I believe that all indies are struggling with is the initial postulate "if" number of two million. Where does one get those two million eye balls without an ad budget or marketing budget - and without becoming a spammer? That's the question.

Yes, perhaps viral videos are the answer, or press releases, or a combination of all of these strategies... we'll see. I'm trying them all and I have hopes that they will work.

But what does it mean for the T-Rex? These channels all rely upon chance - chance that internet users will forward your viral video, chance that the press and bloggers will report on it, etc. Eventually that will be all that's left to do. And I think it makes those investors that fund T-rexes very, very nervous...

But not me.

I've seen conversion rates as high as 10%, when I've drawn traffic from carefully selected sites. There is always a tradeoff between getting massive numbers of hits, or being more surgical. My point was mostly that the internet is a great opportunity, and it should not be minimalized, just because it's highly diverse. The potential audience in the U.S. alone is well over 80 million (I don't have recent figures, I'd guess over 100 million by now, but 80 million is a very conservative number). If you could reach 10% of the U.S. audience, you'd make most marketing people cry with envy.

Let me just bring this home. I would not be able to make my living the way I do, or life my life the way I do, if it weren't for the internet. The internet is the solution. It's diversity and fragmentation are another challenge for us, but I wouldn't want it any other way.

I've seen conversion rates as high as 10%, when I've drawn traffic from carefully selected sites. There is always a tradeoff between getting massive numbers of hits, or being more surgical. My point was mostly that the internet is a great opportunity, and it should not be minimalized, just because it's highly diverse. The potential audience in the U.S. alone is well over 80 million (I don't have recent figures, I'd guess over 100 million by now, but 80 million is a very conservative number). If you could reach 10% of the U.S. audience, you'd make most marketing people cry with envy.

Let me just bring this home. I would not be able to make my living the way I do, or life my life the way I do, if it weren't for the internet. The internet is the solution. It's diversity and fragmentation are another challenge for us, but I wouldn't want it any other way.

Oh I agree, same here! And you make some great points. Let's see how my next phase goes. Maybe I'll hit some of the numbers you're talking about.

Some articles yesterday on Flatland:

USA Blog (http://blogs.usatoday.com/techspace/2007/01/flatout_cool.html)

Cosmic Variance (http://cosmicvariance.com/2007/01/25/i-always-thought-martin-sheen-was-a-bit-two-dimensional/)

Very groovy discussion this has blossomed into. To also throw my wrench at the machine...

It's interesting, to think that in each country, there is a fragmented market, and within that, genres and preferences (and all that) further fragment those potential customers. So to me, I think of it like a video game- take Pac Man. You're a ghost, Pac Man is a competitor with more money and brains (which there always is), and those little dots are customers. Now, you've got to scoop up all those dots before the Man. The problem is because they're all over the place, while you concentrate in one area, the other dots are gone before you know it. Like, when you clear half the map, and leave two dots- it's such a waste to go back later. Otherwise, you end up wasting your time, chasing every little dot in the end.
But then there's those big dots, which make the bad guys run away. Those are the "high concepts" and "virals", the "Little Miss Sunshines". When you get those big dots, all the little dots are yours for the gobbling.

Bringing it back to real life, instead of focusing on finding customers, we should be looking for IDEAS that will cause the audience to find YOU. So, you gotta get a concept so pumping, that it causes everyone to talk about it. A lot of people try to cash in on existing "brands"... you know what I mean- Ray, Walk the Line, The one that just didn't get best picture (whatever it's called), the 9/11 movies, that Karla Homolka movie that got quashed... there'll probably make a Robert Pickton flick (Canadian serial killing pig farmer with a score of 49). If they do, I hope they give the lead to Daniel Stern. I think he'd do a great job, and it'd stir up a real interest.

ANYWAY, you have to find ideas that DRAW an audience, instead of trolling for bottom-feeders. I know that's not really a solution, but it's a way of looking at it. Just keep digging during your screenplay phase, make an incredible, dyn-o-mite-in-the-water high concept like filmy and clive talk about, and then release it, targeting those big dots: prestigous film festivals, big city premieres, art communities, colleges, etc.
There's an indie cinema in Toronto that automatically gets your showtimes published in the local papers. It's buried in the back, so you have to suppliment it with other methods- posters, viral video, web blitzes, blogs and bloggers, press... and just plain going out and meeting people, and telling them to see your movie. I actually went to see one short film (paid $8!) because the director was outside the theatre, and told me about his movie... why not?

Anyway, those are my thoughts. Next time, I'll be more brief. Whew.

I may have been premature in my pessimism (and isn't pessimism always that way?)

Sales have started to pick up. While not amazing, they're increasing.

I've had offers to review the film from several different well-established outlets, which may assist in publicity further. Hopefully they won't be too harsh.

I've also had a very interesting offer to showcase the trailer on a well known video sharing site. More to come on that if it materializes.

A press release which I sent out on the 25th also made some headway: press release (http://www.flatlandthefilm.com/news.html)

This has given me inspiration for more press releases which may get wider exposure. I am considering using a paid service to distribute it to media outlets.

I hope these are tidings of good things to come. I'll report back later.

Bringing it back to real life, instead of focusing on finding customers, we should be looking for IDEAS that will cause the audience to find YOU.

Very good post... and I think you're dead on. Well, to a point.

There've been plenty of great movies that have failed to "make it" simply from lack of exposure. You could make the most wonderful movie in history, but if you stick it in the closet and don't tell anyone, it's not going anywhere. History is also filled with great films that have managed to find an audience from some "outside the box" PR - such as Richard Rush's "Stunt Man," for instance.

Perhaps I should rename the thread to something like "Real World Experiments in Marketing and PR" If I knew how to rename it, I would...

While I'm at it, I'd also suggest some basic core assumptions for the thread:

1) You've already made a good film that has some measure of appeal to an audience of some type;
2) You're now trying to promote it as cost effectively as possible without producer's reps or any of the other trappings of Big or Little Hollywood because
3) You are time rich and cash poor.

Why don't you try and make a viral video around the concept of your film's theme, and try and release it on the internet video channels? Maybe hold a "secret" screening or something. Something that emphasizes the appealing part of the concept, but feels more like entertainment than an ad. It's harder on Mypsace than Youtube, because Myspace is such a corporate pet, but there's a lot of tertiary video aggregators out there gobbling up content and feeding it to niche audiences. You just have to make a promo that will cross those markets with a mass-appeal type of dealy. Ain't that the rub?

Yeah, the mySpace video thing was a bit of a mess for me - lots of people like the trailer there, but whenever I try to push it and promote, they slap you down and flag you as a spammer. They want the spotlight for their Fox films, I think.

Working on the viral videos now. I've been promised a feature highlight on a well-known video sharing site - would be very awesome if it comes through.

Through pure blind luck, a clip from Flatland FEATURED on youTube:

http://www.youtube.com/browse?s=rf&t=t&c=0&l=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUu6zrdlUxI

700 views in 1/2 hour, 50+ comments, two DVD sales. The night is young.

so cool!

I suppose I should have mentioned that patience is part of the internet marketing plan. It takes time for something to "catch on" and reach critical mass.

20 DVD sales, 1,613 views, 101 comments. 11:30 PM & I'm hitting the hay.

http://www.flatlandthefilm.com/images/YouTubeFrontPage02.jpg

Congrats! A little invisible push and you've got some momentum. Sell lots!

Thanks. Now 1:23 am (bit of insomnia) and it's up to 26,000 views. Whew!

How did you get featured there? Does a specific person have to flag your video? Does it have to gain enough votes? How did that work? How were you notified?

It was a very strange story and a one in a million. I don't know if I have permission to say, so I gotta be mum on it for now, but I will find out if I can say how.

I'm doing some research on the most recent successful viral campaign that preceeded the release of the DVD "The Secret". A key factor in their success is that they took months to release the film eventhough it was ready to go, so that they create a huge momentum, like teasing an targeted audience with clips, and making some noise in places where people are interested in their theme. The DVD sold in the hundred of thousands in just a few weeks, no theatrical, all webbase media. AND THAT HUGE SUDDEN DEMAND BECAME A SUBJECT OF ATTENTION IN THE REGULAR MEDIA, ATTRACTING EVEN MORE DEMAND FOR THE DVDS.

More on this soon.

Interesting, I'd love to hear more on that!