Product Placement is to common in film nowadays, we've become somewhat immune to it (See: Total Recall).

My question about PP is this:

Is it possible to fund a small indie film's entire budget with PP cash? Is it legal (I know, I should ask a lawyer, but there goes the entire budget)?

Do you think it can be done?

Integration is very common in TV and the movies, but they are not going to mess with little DV movies (speaking in general). Also it can take away from your credibility as an artist.

Thanks for the enlightening answer, Indie.

I'm just brainstorming here. I have an idea for a project (NOT cat related!) that could actually make some money, but I certainly don't have the cash to throw at it.

I'm open to ideas.

...except anything Spatula has to suggest about selling myself on a street corner. I don't have enough money to pay people to go away. :D

I funded my first short with product placement -- I got a hiking clothes manufacturer to provide all the costumes and they also gave me $6,000 -- so it is possible.

My only regret about it was I never felt the company got a good return for their investment -- so I've been wary of going down this route ever since. I've hit up companies for free props and free costumes, but never cash.

But I think if you can provide the advertiser with a good level of exposure and the product placement is integral to the film, go for it.

Oh, by the way -- it's probably worth pointing out that I worked in advertising for years before getting into film making, so I was really comfortable with the whole process of pitching the idea -- it's not an easy $ to get hold of, if you don't know what you're doing.

I also agree with Indie, if you do this wrong it can ruin the film.

Hope this helps.

Yeah you have to be careful. If people are eating Domino's Pizza in 3 of your scenes and there are Domino's billboards shown on the highway, etc., you are a sell out. It has to integrate naturally. Think of products you would ask permission to show in your film, that already appear in the script, and try to flip that into product integration instead of getting permission.

Yes, it's posable and yes it's legal. A friend of mine hiked the Appalachian trail and made a documentary. He got some products to use, but that was all. Last year he hiked the Pacific Crest trail. Since his first doc sold 4,500 units (self distributed) he not only got more gear donated, but he got some money to use and mention the gear.

But it's important to remember what product placement really is. I know I'm stating the obvious so bare with me: a company wants their product seen by a lot of people. The more people that think will see it, the more they will pay. An ad during the Super Bowl costs more than an add on a local cable station. Having James Bond use Skyy vodka will be seen by a lot of people.

If you can convince the advertisers that their product will be seen by a lot of people, they may be willing to pay you enough money to finance your movie. Or if you have an "in" like clive, you may be able to pull it off.

While it's true that I don't want to make "The Dominos Pizza Movie", there's a few instances where minor placement is vital to the storyline. Just a handful of strategically placed brand names (without calling all attention to them) could very well make up a good chunk of the budget.

I've seen movies where PP is blatant and uncomfortable, but that's not what I had in mind. I don't want to end up like Ed Wood where investors are demanding to cast their little brother in this part or that part, but then again, I'm not George Lucas who has a tendency to break the first rule of filmmaking: Don't use your own money.

Oh, by the way -- it's probably worth pointing out that I worked in advertising for years before getting into film making, so I was really comfortable with the whole process of pitching the idea -- it's not an easy $ to get hold of, if you don't know what you're doing.What kind of tips can you provide us? How did you do it?

Rik nailed it, show the advertiser that their investment is going to end up with their product being seen in lots of places -- we provided a list of film international film festivals we were going to enter the film in.

The company were just getting into international sales and saw it as a good investment.

Make sure the companies know things like...Your product will be sitting on a shelf in a store next to your competitor's brand as well (like in a bar setting)...they may be less willing to give permission, but will be less pissed than if you don't tell them :)

In either case they probably wouldn't be as pissed as the Reebok people were about their mention in Jerry McGuire ("Did I ever tell you my Reebok story? F--- Reebok!")

...except anything Spatula has to suggest about selling myself on a street corner. I don't have enough money to pay people to go away. :D

Street corner? PLEASE. Thanks to Al Gore's internet, you don't have to stand out in the cold. Here's what you do:

Create a myspace page and take pictures of yourself with a disposable camera in the bathroom mirror. Make sure you wear a tight white shirt and pull your jeans down slightly with your left thumb. Call the account "mr_sexxor" and begin adding friends like never before. Then, tell evryone in a bulletin that you've made a porn, and you're selling it for $9.99. Once you have thier money, send them the Bad Cat series, inserting random kitty porn every 2.5 seconds. Remember, you didn't specify it was human porn, so they can't complain. Once you've ripped everyone off, transfer the money to an offshore account to avoid the impending IRS and buy a volcano. Then, sell volcano insurance to the natives for a share in their rice paddies. Sell the rice to local supermarkets at reduced prices and then hire an old crippled woman to purchase the rice and choke on it. When she sues the grocery store, detonate your volcano to destroy the evidence of your rice paddies, and use the profit from your rice ventures/volcano insurance to hire a lawyer for the old woman. Now this is imperitive. When you win the lawsuit, split the money with the old woman, then sue her for the other half, claiming she took discriminating photos of you and edited kitty porn into your Bad Cat series, selling it through myspace, pretending to be you. If she denies it, you may have to put her into a coma. I suggest hitting her at the base of the skull with a salami.

Then, make the movie you want to make, and send free copies to all the kitty-porn buyers. Hopefully the story alone will be enough publicity to go viral.

Street corners? Pah. That's so 1980's.

Was that too wierd? I'm really tired. That's the best I could do, sadly. :no:

OMG

I have a friend who makes outdoor HOW-TO videos and so far, he's been able to get REI (http://www.rei.com) to finance every one. Mountain climbing, rock climbing, white water rafting, etc.

They not only financed the videos but geared him up with everything he needed. After the the second video, he had to start showing and discussing specific pieces of gear.

The good news is that he's doing what he loves... Always outdoors... Always shooting video. Getting paid.

filmy

OMG

A lesson in what happens when people go off their meds. :grumpy:

you've really thought about this before, haven't you spat :(

I think the most important thing written in thie thread is this...

If you can convince the advertisers that their product will be seen by a lot of people...

They're all about the money. If you can convince them it's worth there money, then it can be done.

Create a myspace page and take pictures of yourself with a disposable camera in the bathroom mirror. Make sure you wear a tight white shirt and pull your jeans down slightly with your left thumb. Call the account "mr_sexxor" and begin adding friends like never before. Then, tell evryone in a bulletin that you've made a porn, and you're selling it for $9.99. Once you have thier money, send them the Bad Cat series, inserting random kitty porn every 2.5 seconds. Remember, you didn't specify it was human porn, so they can't complain. Once you've ripped everyone off, transfer the money to an offshore account to avoid the impending IRS and buy a volcano. Then, sell volcano insurance to the natives for a share in their rice paddies. Sell the rice to local supermarkets at reduced prices and then hire an old crippled woman to purchase the rice and choke on it. When she sues the grocery store, detonate your volcano to destroy the evidence of your rice paddies, and use the profit from your rice ventures/volcano insurance to hire a lawyer for the old woman. Now this is imperitive. When you win the lawsuit, split the money with the old woman, then sue her for the other half, claiming she took discriminating photos of you and edited kitty porn into your Bad Cat series, selling it through myspace, pretending to be you. If she denies it, you may have to put her into a coma. I suggest hitting her at the base of the skull with a salami.

SPAM WARNING!

Don't try this!!! I got this same email last year, it did not work!!! The only way to put an old lady in a coma is to feed her lima beans laced with salt.

Poke

Don't try this!!! I got this same email last year, it did not work!!! The only way to put an old lady in a coma is to feed her lima beans laced with salt.
I produced a DVD in 2005 that has proven effective at inducing comas.

I got Nikon to sign off on letting me use their cameras in my short film and in all promotions. This is a film about photographers - who are neurotically loyal to their brand of choice. Nikon is getting a LOT of screen time and one photog even touts the beneits of his Nikon D2H. I didn't get any $$ from Nikon, though. Now I'm wondering if I could get some back-end $$ since the film is turning out to be pretty nice (fingers crossed - still in post - and that's a whole 'nother story). Anyone have any thoughts on if it would be possible to get some funds from Nikon after the fact?

could probably ask for some promotional money if the return is already coming in.

Never hurts to ask.

That's a good angle to go after them again for your next film.

"See how much money I'm making? Perhaps a larger investment would lead to larger returns."

Hmmm. Not too sure about making much money on a short, so approaching them on that angle might be tough. However, should we get some attention at a film festival or two, do you think that might be worth something? I'm also wondering what your thoughts are about YouTube and similar sites - proving that you've got hits there - does that count for anything? Just wondering....

Have you made any $$ on your shorts, LOC? They sure are cute :yes:

advertisers pay for exposure.

Hmmm. Not too sure about making much money on a shortActually, I'm looking for a way to fund my feature film.

I'm also wondering what your thoughts are about YouTube and similar sites - proving that you've got hits there - does that count for anything? Just wondering....Personally, I'm opposed to showing my stuff on YouTube or video.google.com. I personally have a major problem with the "we own you" licence restrictions.

Have you made any $$ on your shorts, LOC? They sure are cute No, I never made a penny, I never meant to make any money off them as they were my 'crack samples.' I've always hated that analogy, but hey, the first hit of crack is free and that's how they snag you. I wanted to give them away for nothing but brand recognition.

I get dozens of emails a day (most of them from the Netherlands nowadays) saying how much they love my crappy films. I just want to get my feature (300+ page vampire script) shot.

Thanks for the complement, too! :D

Actually, I'm looking for a way to fund my feature film.

Personally, I'm opposed to showing my stuff on YouTube or video.google.com. I personally have a major problem with the "we own you" licence restrictions.

No, I never made a penny, I never meant to make any money off them as they were my 'crack samples.' I've always hated that analogy, but hey, the first hit of crack is free and that's how they snag you. I wanted to give them away for nothing but brand recognition.

I get dozens of emails a day (most of them from the Netherlands nowadays) saying how much they love my crappy films. I just want to get my feature (300+ page vampire script) shot.

Thanks for the complement, too! :D

300+ pages? Whew. All for ONE movie?

filmy

300+ pages? Whew. All for ONE movie?Yes, it's ONE story. Technically, I can break it up into two films, but I don't want to do that.

Remember Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket? That was two separate films with a reoccurring cast. Same with mine. Although there's no Vietnam, there is a grand spectacle of war in the second half. I've tried to whittle it down, but I could only remove two or three pages.

I'm torn by this project. I'd like to shoot the entire thing, and perhaps release both halves separately ala Kill Bill. My problem with that is that viewers 'just won't get it' if I do it that way. The halves are so different, I think it'll confuse everyone and no one will appreciate the entire work.

I hope that made sense.

...the first hit of crack is free and that's how they snag you.
Damn! I paid for my first hit.

LOC, have you ever spoken to Leif Yonker? (creator of Darkness). He's an interesting, and very approachable fella, and he has worked in the movie business for years, having gotten his start with the "cult classic" Darkness, which he recently re-released on DVD. I got to know him when he was in Wilmington, NC, working on his DVD release. He is now back in Witchita, Kansas.

In any case, he's done a little bit of everything, from writing to international distribution deals. He makes most of his money writing scripts. He had humble beginnings, and he's a very trustworthy character. (Don't let all the squirting blood fool you!) You might be able to get some feedback and/or helpful advice from Leif. You should be able to find him, if you're so inclined, at www.13thdream.com (his company web-site).

(Don't let all the squirting blood fool you!)I only respect the filmmaker if at least 30 gallons of pig blood is used like in Dead Alive. :D

Thanks for the contact, I'll try to get a hold of him for some advice.

I just spoke with Leif by telephone. I told him that I had pointed you in his direction, and he said it was cool. I told him you'd introduce yourself as "Mrs. Estherhouse" (Caddyshack II)... no, just kidding, I told him Bob/Robert Yannetta of Loud Orange Cat. He said 300 pages was 5 hours ... is it true? I don't think I could sit through 5 hours without a break. You'd better put in an intermission.

300 divided by 60 equals 5. This is my hell.

No one will sit through a 5 hour vampire movie, but cutting anything else out of it will deprive the viewer of necessary background to truly appreciate the film.

After registering it with the WGA to cover my ass, I was thinking about shopping it around to the SciFi channel and a few others that may want to look at it as a miniseries.

It's still not officially 'done' after all these years, but it's now in the final 'polishing' stage.

This script has taken up a large majority of my life and I'm damn proud of it. The very few select who have seen it reply only with a tear.

The Russians who made Nightwatch (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0403358/) had the same problem -- their story runs to three films I think!

Haven't time to check my facts, I just remember it's multiple movies to tell one vampire story.

I have Night Watch on DVD. There's the sequel Day Watch that I haven't seen in the U.S. yet. The third film is Dusk Watch. I can't wait for the entire series.

One thing that I neglected to say in my previous post is that my script is really (Flame on, horror fans) a love story. The vampirism included in the story is not thrown in just for giggles, it's a integral part of the story. But all in all, it's a big, squishy love story.

Going back to the PP issue, I was trying to get funding for a romantic comedy set in a Carribean Island, and local casino guys there told us that if we put a scene taking place in their casino, they would give us cash . Now, I was tempted. But partly fearing that those guys were not too clean with the money, I said "no". I was not sure on how to integrate a casino also.... . It was a tough decision.

Anyway, we are still looking for investors for the development of the movie. ...

There's two types of filmmakers:


Those who are willing to cave in to the investors.
Those who will never compromise their artistic integrity.
It depends how much money you're talking about.

LindbergMTL, did the casino demand in writing that anything filmed in their building be included in the final cut? Or did they just ask you to film there with no strings attached? If they asked for the latter, you could have taken the cash, filmed a bit indoors and left it on the cutting room floor... :lol:

3. Those who plan "crumple zones" into their project to protect their artistic integrity from their investors...and who clearly define in the contract the role of the investors.

There's two types of filmmakers:


Those who are willing to cave in to the investors.
Those who will never compromise their artistic integrity.
It depends how much money you're talking about.
Let me add the third type: Those that understand filmmaking is a business and learn to work within the constraints dictated by the available money and the market.

I understand that some moviemakers see this as caving in. Maybe it is. So maybe there ARE only two. But when I started making my living making movies I soon learned that I couldn't always maintain complete artistic integrity and still get paid. I found that I could never compromise and lose a job - or work with the investors, compromise and get paid doing what I love. And hard as it is to believe, sometimes compromising can be done while maintaining artistic integrity. Not every filmmaker who never compromises their artistic integrity is right - we are prone to making mistakes, too.

I realize that 'artistic integrity' comes at a very large price. After all, the money is coming from people/business/power much higher up the ladder than we are, we still all want to get paid.

I can count on two hands the number of directors that held the studios in their hands at at least one time in their lives (Orson Welles, Stanley Kubrick... We know who they are). But you're right, we want to get paid.