Another round of beginner questions.

Buddy Greenfield

Buddy Greenfield

After writing for a few years and discovering how lack of budget can be an effective creative tool as opposed to a limitation, I realized that perhaps I too could make my very own *relatively inexpensively short films. However, before I do so, I have a few million basics questions that I hope you guys can help me out with and/or point me towards some essential online reading material that will begin the enlightenment.

My main concern is understanding the correlation of film type, lens settings, lighting, and filters.

As a practical example, I have a 16 mm Bolex and wish to shoot one of my shorts called "What lies outside the closet" which in fact takes place IN a closet. With camera type and a location void of any natural light in mind, which type of color film, amount and kind of light and filters (If any) would you suggest I explore to at least get something on film?

Also please:

What kind of light meter should I consider buying or avoiding and will it possibly help make things a bit clearer as to this correlation I hope to understand?

And finally (for now) is there some kind of structured guideline I can follow to not only effectively test, but also learn from while shooting my 1st 100 ft test reel?

I appreciate any help you guys can offer.
:)
 
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Hi, and welcome, fellow Greenfield.

First, I'd say you should try picking up a couple of books on the topic of filmmaking and cinematography.

Second, I'd strongly suggest you try to shoot some things on DV first, because you will screw up or it will not come out exactly how you want and DV is a helluva lot cheaper to learn from than 16mm.

Third, there is a lot to know about shooting film. I can't possibly educate you on film, lighting, light meters, and filters over an internet post, so I would again suggest you pick up a book on the subject. Personally I like "Cinematography" for the basics of film cameras.

But for a dark interior I would shoot Kodak 500T 7218, and you wont need a filter unless you either shoot it in the daylight or try to mix daylight with it. With 500T you will need some light but not a ton. 100W bulb overhead might be enough, if not try 150 or 200.

Finally remember Bolex's are not sound synch and therefore you will need to cover (barney or blimp) it if you want to record sound on location.
 
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Thanks for the reply Wide. :)

I have a Super 8 Canon which i picked up after seeing Zensteve's (I think) Trunk Fiction (although mine isn't a sweet 1014 or even 814, hell , it's not even a 514 and doesn't run at 24fps, but by I'll get one!) because i really liked the look they were getting and no doubt I'd be more than happy to aspire to that level. So I will likely do a first "Lets see what happens" version of my short in S8 as it is less expensive and while i do have a video camera (non DV) i just don't get the same "vibe" from video (yet i completly respect the medium and advantages it offers as a learning tool.) The advice on the 500T and a rough estimate of lighting wattage is a great first step in my 16mm explorations and I appreciate it :)
 
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I have another total newbie question that i am almost afraid to ask as it's likely laughable, but I just have to know, so.. What do the names such as Cinor, Pizar, Lytar, Yvar on my lenses mean? Is it the shape, model, manufacturing process, type of glass, coating, inventor, Greek mytholgy or what?

Thanks :)
 
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Those are the names of the lenses made by Kern Paillard.

I made a film using my Bolex H-16 EL called "Closet Case". It takes place 95% in a closet. We built the four moveable walls in my back yard and shot only at night so we could control the lighting.

Other than reading books the best way to understanding the correlation of film type, lens settings, lighting, and filters is to try different settings under different conditions. That's expensive, but it's what I did when I was starting out with 16mm. That and Lenny Lipton's book "Independent Filmmaking". The book is out-dated today, but the chapters on 16mm filters and lens settings are still usefull.
 
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Thanks Directorik :)

No doubt it is going to be an expensive learning curve once i finally roll tape. I've been trying to offset that with online knowledge and by tracking down some inexpensive books. I'll have to add that one to my list of ones to look out for.

:)
 
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So I got this box of "junk", but there were a few cool things in it. (Rexofader-Pistolgrip-Filterholders) Among what might be deemed cool is an old Sekonic L28c2 light meter minus the sphere part, but with the high illumination "tab insert". Considering I found the manual in PDF, would this be a decent starter meter and worth the $12 to get a replacement sphere? Or (Here comes the stupid) is it not really useful with the film stocks available today?

Thanks :)
 
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In my experience, as long as the meter is accurate, it can be used with any film. You may have to do some tests, to calibrate the meter, but the meter's job is simply to measure luminance/light levels, so it doesn't have to be cognizant of a specific film's gamma curve, dynamic range, or color balance. It should simply give you settings (f-stop/shutter speed) to achieve 18% gray at a specific ISO.

In my opinion, an accurate light meter is always worth $12, but I have no specific knowledge of that model.
 
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Hey thanks Oakstreet, I appreciate it.

Hopefully I can come across the lumisphere part I need (on the cheap) then have someone test it side by side with a meter known to work.

Now for more film stock advice: Wideshot advised I check out some 7218 500T and eventually I will, however, at the moment I have access in my area to a few other color stocks which hopefully one of you guys can suggest the best choice for use on my 16 mm indoor short. (I do have plenty of artificial light now.)

The stocks are 7239 - 7240-7250 and (I think) 7251 or 7252.

Thanks Guys :)
 
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I'm not up on specific film stocks, anymore ... someone else here probably is. The first criteria for selection is what type of lighting you are going to use (light temperature/color balance). If you're shooting with tungsten lights (3200K), you'll want film stock balanced for tungsten lighting (or you can use a filter to compensate, but I prefer not to use any extra glass). If you're using some other sort of light, you'll need the right film. You may find you don't have many choices, after you select the ones that will give you proper color balance.
 
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I've found and read a very basic primer book (“Shot by Shot: a practical guide to filmmaking” by Cantine-Howard & Lewis) along with the manuals for my meager camera and junky light meter and SOME things are becoming clearer, while others have taken their place to confuse me. This is the case with the variable shutter on my Reflex. I understand I can fade in or out with it, but I don’t really understand how it plays a role (or even IF it plays a role) in getting the correct exposure settings. I suppose I understand that I more or less set my light meter to the film’s ASA, take a reading and set my lens accordingly (Is that right?) , but how does the variable shutter on the camera come into the equation? What am I missing? Where am I confused? What do I need to learn next?

As always, your thoughts and wisdom are appreciated. :)
 
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Just to be sure you're not missing something really basic, there are essentially two things that control the amount of exposure given to each frame of your film...

1) the amount or intensity of light (controlled by f-stop, lighting the scene, etc.)
2) the amount of time for which the frame is exposed (controlled by shutter speed)

Shortening your shutter speed reduces exposure, the same way as choosing a smaller lens opening (larger f-stop #). You can use the size of the lens opening to control depth of field (larger openings let in more light, but yield less depth of field), and you can use faster shutter speeds to freeze action, slower shutter speeds to increase the amount of motion blur. Of course, when shooting motion pictures, there is a limit to how long you can expose a frame, because you need to move on to finish a complete frame cycle in under 1/n of a second (which includes more than just the exposure time, where "n" is equal to the frame rate; typically 24).

p.s. Forgive me if I misread your question. I just wanted to start by stating the obvious.
 
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Thanks Oak Street,

I am happy to have any of the basics driven into my head, so no worries at all and I can only ask forgiveness for the level, repititon and frequency of my questions, but hopefully by like 2013 i will have
it down, somewhat. :)

Naturally i am still confused, but is the varible shutter that has 3 positions, 3 speeds?
If not, how does one control the shutter speed? Don't kill me, but is the shutter speed the same as the FPS?

Thanks and sorry :)
 
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For the past 12 years, I've been shooting video, and doing consulting in digital technology and lighting, so what you're about to read is dredged from memory and the Bolex manual.

The frame rate and shutter speed are not the same thing, but for your camera, the frame rate determines the shutter speed/exposure time. At 16fps, your exposure time is 1/40 second. At 8fps, the exposure time is doubled, and at 64fps, it is 1/4. It is probably about 1/48 second at 24fps; that is typical. It really can't be any slower than that, because the carrier mechanism needs time to advance the film between frames. Speaking strictly for your camera, once you've chosen a frame rate, you will be locked into a shutter speed, and you will control exposure with the lens aperature (a.k.a. diaphragm).
 
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If anyone would care to give my next goofball newbie question a whirl it would be much appreciated as always. :)

I am not 100% sure how to ask this and I suspect I am out of my mind, but do some lights "radiate" their light in "cycles" faster or slower (Or more or less) than other lights do? That is to say, I own and often see lights that are labled as "Super 8 movie lights" so I'm wondering if they give off the light in like "cycles" meant for or matched to the frame rate or shutter speeds Super 8 cameras were likely to operate at so as to not create somekind of "flicker" effect on film?

I know that probablly sounds insane, but I am just wondering if I can make use of this old 650 W B&H light I have with my Bolex.


I've noticed film and processing are so expensive, they create a knowledge gathering paranoia.
Thanks :)
 
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in NTSC countries (USA and Japan), lights "radiate" at 60 Hz (60 times a second). In PAL countries it fluctuates at 50Hz. This is due to the power frequency coming out of the wall and is also the basis for the frame rates of both NTSC and PAL. So I guess to answer your question is no. I think the "Super 8" lights are either a brightness level, or just a marketing thing.
 
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Super 8 movie lights were for attaching to the top of super 8 cameras, and often, when you clicked them into place, a filter change was made.
 
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