Ever get down and bummed out? I love film making and the other video work I do but after the last two films I directed got some bad comments and such im feeling bummed and searching for the will to work on three other projects I was about to start pre-production.. Any other directors find it hard to stay motivated some times? How do you cope with bad reviews and comments?

I left the industry for 5 years after a particulaly nasty expereince with Miramax and on a directing gig I did. It took a lot for me to get back in after being jaded for so long. Then we made a film which got good reviews and the occasional bad one. We started on the follow up, money fell through. Then this happened again and again. The ammount of shit that has been thrown on me over the past two year sI feel like a cow's field.

BUT and the key thing is this. It's want I want to do and what I love doing. And if you love it no matter what people say you should stay commited and dedicated.

Strive to get these people who hated your last films to do a good review of your next. and if they don't? Fuck em. Most film reviewers wouldn't know a good, marketable film if it bit them on the arse.

EVERY film maker gets bad reviews and mostly at the beginning of their career. Kevin smith was slated for most of his early films but he still does them because people still like watching them and if you have an audience and people who want to watch them then that my friend is better than a 100 good reviews.

This industry is over competative, filled with talentless hacks and arseholes who want to put you down. And mostly it's because they are afraid of who is coming through, who could replace them.

As for coping with bad reviews... balance them with the good reviews. Every good review is worth 10 bad in my book. But never expect to be wildly acclaimed as this doesnt ever happen even at the top. Use this to build your resolve, your confidance because if you ever get to the 'Wood you can be sure that bad reviews will be 10 to the dozen.

I almost quit the business about nine months ago, after ten years of working at it.

What kept me in was although I could imagine giving up production, I couldn't imagine giving up writing. That and the support of some good friends.

The thing I got from that experience was an understanding that film making is a life long learning process and when things don't turn out great you have to:

a) get back in the saddle and
b) learn from your mistakes

Of these two I think the second one is the hardest, because it means we have to take the criticism seriously and not just write off the critics as bitter and twisted hacks. Which is always more fun and easier.

I see lots of indies who can get back in the saddle, but very few who can take criticism and then do something about learning how to improve. In fact I can think of one guy in particular whose last film got slated pretty much everywhere, but he's never going to admit to himself or anyone else that it was less than brilliant (it's an ego thing - bless)

So I think the trick is to see the criticism as the best gift anyone could give you -- because by telling you what they didn't like, they're helping you become a better film maker.

I can in all honesty say that my last film's failure to do any business, which bankrupted me in the process, has been the best thing that ever could have happened to me as a film maker -- I'm a better writer and a more open minded producer/director than I ever would have been if it had gone huge.

(Phil -- we must have posted within seconds of each other -- I hadn't read your post -- and mine isn't a response to it -- just a weird coincidence that it looks like I did!)

Ha! Clive... great minds!!!

I have three great loves in my life:


My children
Filmmaking
Chess
I get bummed out on filmmaking too and haven't filfilled my self-imposed quota for releasing short videos as I promised myself (One per yearly quarter), getting cancer was not very expected, though.

Even though I'm in treatment, I still find a few minutes to pull out a camera and shoot a scene on the fly. Even though I don't want to, I push myself because it's something I've always wanted to do. I have to push myself otherwise I'd never get the interest again. And, while shooting a scene, I get the 'filmmaking bug' again and film like crazy.

We all get bummed out once in a while, but if you allow yourself to fail, you will fail. I won't allow myself to fail.

Thanks for the responces.. That helps.... I need to foucs and make the best out of the reviews, I will learn from them.

When you're on set making a scene happen, all the reviews become irrelevant as the rush of making all of that stuff click takes over. All the pre production is preparation for that moment...The post is wanting to share that elation...

lather...rinse...repeat...

Never let others tell you what you can and cannot do (which is what becoming despondant over bad reviews boils down to). Take control and do what you do. Learn from your mistakes and know that every production will be rife with them. The only reason to be depressed about it is if you don't learn from your mistakes.

I have three great loves in my life:

Chess


I must play you sometime. I'm not amazing, but it is the best game ever concieved. Aside from playing Jenga on a moving train, of course (to which I am master).

But Grinchy, if you get bummed out, don't worry. It happens all the time. Everything changes though. You have to be patient with yourself, and do things a little at a time. I'm going through some financial trouble now (AKA I got fired by the biggest A-hole boss ever), but I'm still taking time out of the job search to mess up my 1st draft. Last night, I had a stark revalation that although the script was GOOD, it wasn't GREAT. And though I have LITTLE money and LOTS of debt, it's not NO money and INSURMOUNTABLE debt. The fact I'm still able to have cable internet is something that inspires me to believe in destiny. But whatever you want to believe, in the end, things work out if you treat them kindly. Send your worst critics polite invitations to see your next film, and show them you've improved. If they give you a harsh review, send them polite thank you letters. Then make another film, and write them again. By that time, they'll be so impressed you're still plugging away, I'd bet they'd give you a better review just because. Eventually you'll win them over- if you can keep on plugging.

Where the hell did that come from? Keep on plugging? Has anyone heard anyone say that before? Oh my. I have to go do the dishes or something.... plug on.

Congratulations on having completed the projects you've done. Keep in mind that an artist needs to have enough sensitivity and awareness of the world around him to pull something truthful from life into his work. On the other hand, a working artist has to toughen himself up enough to be able to take the hard knocks that life sometimes dishes out.

Listen to other people's opinions, but you don't have to hold their opinions as gospel. Some folks think they are in a zero sum world, where anything positive they give out will subtract from what's left for themselves, so of course they'll run you down. Ignore them, they're naysayers. Others can recognise your state of artistic growth and can guide you to the next level of excellence, if you'll listen and pay attention. You need to be able to learn the difference between a constructive comment and a slam, and respond appropriately.

Defiantly learn from the reviews but don't take them personally. Anybody who cares will critique your film making and not you the person. A review or critique that attacks you as a person instead of you the film maker can just get thrown in the trash were it belongs.

Having a cabel of trusted friends who'll give it to you straight are worth their weight in gold IMHO.

And remember most people who cut you down or hate what you do have probably never made a film in their life.

And remember most people who cut you down or hate what you do have probably never made a film in their life.I couldn't agree more. Film reviewers should be filmmakers to level the playing field.

Think back to the process of creating your film. Did you go through all that love and sweat thinking 'Man, this is going to show Mr. So and So Reviewer how great we are!' I doubt that's what got you up in the morning to work on it. You stepped up to the plate and did the work because you loved doing the work. You loved being with fellow artists, creating something... anything... together. That's good, will always be good, no matter what anyone else says about what you did.

Film reviewers should be filmmakers to level the playing field.

Personally, I'd rather not have film makers as reviewers -- simply because what I want from a reviewer is a layman's reaction -- I don't want someone who is going to be looking for what I achieved technically, I want someone who can watch it as a film and say whether they liked it or not.

I think film makers are the worst reviewers -- because they lose the ability to see the film purely as a piece of entertainment -- I know that's true of me -- I saw a friend's film recently and it was a great piece of work -- but, the only thing that stuck in my mind was one technical fault that for me made the whole thing painful to watch. -- Truth is that no-one else spotted it.

As film makers we sometimes loose touch with the audience and reviewers are supposed to bridge that gap for us -- they're supposed to tell us the things that no one at our premieres will say to our faces.

Maybe... but then I review films and make them and for the most part I will enjoy any film to any genre by any director or star, low and high brow. I make films for an audiance then watch films as that audience. I think it can work...

Personally, I'd rather not have film makers as reviewers

Of course, having said that I just remembered my favourite reviewer is Alex Cox (who directed Repo Man/ Sid and Nancy etc) -- damn :blush:

I'll just shut up and drink some more tea!

Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....well, the thing is that you have to know that there may always be someone who will find fault with anything you do. How much stock are you going to put in what they say? There is criticism and then there is constructive criticism. Both are valid, but one holds more to personal taste and ultimately any movie out there is subject to that. constructive can help you improve and that is more important to the process of what you are doing.

You have to know what you are in this for. Everyone in this field wants to be able to make a living at it. You have to know that you love what you are doing and that you want to do this more than anything else. Then it is easier, relatively speaking, to walk off a bad review (maybe).

I have yet to really get any reviews of my work since I am just beginning to submit little things, but I do hope that if I get some not so great reviews, that I can remember how much I love doing this. I can always try to get better. I love the process even if it is cold outside or too hot outside and I'm schlepping my equipment around. I remember how much I like seeing something take shape when I edit. I like thinging about what I could try to do next. That's what keeps me motivated.

So, make sure you look at just what it is that you love about this film stuff and hold on to that. This is what will keep you motivated. Who cares about one bad review. Maybe he just doesn't get it. And isn't that the battle cry of every artist :)

-- spinner :cool:

The problem with "They just didn't get it" is that 99% of the time that's just a cop out by film makers who won't except that their work isn't good enough, YET. And never will be if they don't learn from their mistakes.

The indie film industry should be tearing Hollywood apart right now -- we have everything going for us -- dirt cheap production costs, without major loss of production values -- dirt cheap post production -- massively effective, virtually free marketing tools -- and finally the very real prospect of direct to the customer sales.

With all those is our favour then why hasn't the indie scene exploded? Why are indie films not having the same kind of break throughs that indie musicians are making every day?

Well, it's very simple -- our products just aren't good enough yet -- and the reason why -- well, because every time someone criticizes our work we get defensive and disregard their opinions.

So, we send our scripts for someone to read -- they give notes -- we ignore the notes and slag off the person we sent the script to. -- So, we get a bad review -- we decide that the reviewer is an idiot. -- Somebody walks out of our movie "They're a moron" -- people don't like the story "Well, it's all subjective" -- but the truth is that it isn't that subjective -- a movie that stinks is just that, a movie that stinks.

It's just easier to carry on being naff than it is to do something about it. Which is a pity really, because if we would just accept that it takes experience and skill to write a good script, to shoot a good movie, then we'd not see it as negative when we get it wrong the first dozen times out.

It used to be call paying your dues -- problem is that hardly anyone seems to be up for that these days.

The problem with "They just didn't get it" is that 99% of the time that's just a cop out by film makers who won't except that their work isn't good enough, YET. And never will be if they don't learn from their mistakes.

....uh, I was kidding here, didn't mean to send anyone off on a rant :)


With all those is our favour then why hasn't the indie scene exploded? Why are indie films not having the same kind of break throughs that indie musicians are making every day?

Well, it's very simple -- our products just aren't good enough yet

...well, of course that's the problem. Anyone who wants to can buy a little handicam, get some friends from h.s. and go blow something up, edit it on the system that came with the computer and put it on YouTube.

I saw a show a week ago called 'Life After Film School' where the director of some movie was saying this. The problem is, he says, is: just because you know how to point a camera doesn't necessarily mean you have talent. (His words, not mine.) I think if you are serious about this industry, you have to listen to those who don't like your film as well as those who do. If you are lucky maybe they can tell you why it didn't work for them and you can take something from that.


It used to be call paying your dues -- problem is that hardly anyone seems to be up for that these days.

And there is another problem. Nobody, well, almost nobody, wants to do this. Everyone wants to go from a $300 handicam that you bought last week to shooting Lord Of The Rings. The reality is that for most people this is unrealistic. I have read threads on myspace from kids who are lamenting the fact that there is no wooded area around their home/city whatever, to shoot a horror film. So figure out how to use what you have, for pete's sake. The woods are not the only scary vehicle out there...

This is where you use whatever creativity you have to make something work. There is your motivation. Make a film out of what you have around you. Come up with something no one has ever seen before. Have talent, will travel.

...btw, I was so irritated about the 'I can't do Lord of the Rings without locations' pity party that I tried to figure out if I could do what I was suggessting. I have an idea I need to flesh out, it couldn't possibly be more that an 10 minute short, but it maybe a cool little thriller. It will only work as a short though....and I don't even think in terms of horror/thriller films....

and that's the end of my rant :D

-- spinner :cool:

I know my work is not great.. I started helping other people with the films.. such as doing camera work and such. I work in TV so I have some what of an idea how to shoot... But now that I've taken to making my own shorts I find its hard for me to deal with criticism... I entered two shorts in to a film fest that gives you the judges reviews and they did not like both of the films.. And then others I worked on them with come out of the wood work saying they see what they are saying in the reviews and can agree... So I guess its just a bunch of input hitting me all at once and I feel overwhelmed that i'm making crap..

This is a new experience and feeling and I want to take the reviews and comments and put them to use so I can learn from them and improve my work. I just need to get over the feeling of I may suck I guess.

So thanks for all the input on this.. It helps me sort everything out.

....uh, I was kidding here, didn't mean to send anyone off on a rant

It wasn't aimed at you -- this rant has been building for a while. You just provided me with the perfect feedline. Thanks! LOL

I know my work is not great.. I started helping other people with the films.. such as doing camera work and such. I work in TV so I have some what of an idea how to shoot... But now that I've taken to making my own shorts I find its hard for me to deal with criticism... I entered two shorts in to a film fest that gives you the judges reviews and they did not like both of the films.. And then others I worked on them with come out of the wood work saying they see what they are saying in the reviews and can agree... So I guess its just a bunch of input hitting me all at once and I feel overwhelmed that i'm making crap..

So it sounds to me like you've got the technical skills, but you're discovering that at the moment your content isn't quite working.

Don't shoot yourself yet, because content is the hardest thing to get right.

I think for most people "content quality" is the hardest criticism to deal with -- if someone says "Your sound was pretty naff" well, you can study a bit more about sound recording and know that it will be better next time.

However if someone's says "The dialogue was cliched and acting dreadful" then it feels more like a personal criticism, than a technical one.

Truth is that both writing and directing are skills, just like any other part of film making. And, they are skills that can be acquired. It's just worth remembering that writing and directing are the two hardest jobs on the set and NOBODY gets it right first time.

The post mortem on every film has to be a balancing act -- you have to be honest about what you got wrong and at the same time you have work out what you really got right.

With my first feature film I got the directing right, I got the locations right, I got shooting style right, I used the right format, I did an great job on pulling the sound track together -- I wrote some great dialogue, which led to some nice performances -- you know, I got a lot right with that picture -- However, I also made a major mistake by making my protagonist too passive and I created a structural flaw in act two, by not creating the conflict between the protagonist and the antagonist early enough -- which made the first twenty minutes seem a little slow.

I'm sure when you go back and look at your film, you can easily build a similar list -- you have to look at what you achieved and identify where you still have things to learn.

The other thing you might want to do is give your self a time limit for beating yourself up -- "OK, I'm going to hate myself for two more days and then it's time to move on."

With all those is our favour then why hasn't the indie scene exploded? Why are indie films not having the same kind of break throughs that indie musicians are making every day?

Well, it's very simple -- our products just aren't good enough yet -- and the reason why -- well, because every time someone criticizes our work we get defensive and disregard their opinions.

.

See I disagree with this. I think many peoples films are good enough but Hollywood is chocked by options. From my expereince the biggest thing that plays against us is that we can make a film for little money that can get sold and released so why would they want to give us more? This seems to be a popular attitude at the moment and prevelant uat both Cannes and AFM.

Also there are so many indie film makers these days that the pickings are richer than ever.

Phil, although I'm sure it's true in your case, I don't see the evidence for saying that many peoples films are good enough , when in my experience the vast majority aren't.

Ask any member here who has done on any judging on a film festival and they'll all tell you the same story -- the vast majority of films submitted range between the awful and the barely mediocre.

All I can say is that as a producer 99.9% of the scripts that pass over my desk are dreadful -- every producer I've ever spoken to says the same thing -- what's changed recently is lower productions cost mean more of these bad scripts are making it into production.

A person doesn't have to accept a script rejection anymore, when they can just go out and make the film themselves.

The market isn't flooded with excellent films -- the market is flooded with dross -- which actually does nobody any favours.

What's changed in the last ten years is that being an indie film maker used to mean "A professional film maker who works outside the studio system" and now it means "A geek with a camcorder and his mates"

I don't even call myself "indie" anymore, because in the industry it has such negative connotations.

On the other hand you may be right -- but if you are I'd quit the industry right now -- because you're saying that no matter how good your product is the industry will hold you back -- that there isn't any money in film making any more.

I've seen some cracking indie films that script, editing and production value wise look well above and beyond what they should. Then again I have to agree that many are not.

What is true is that film making now is different to 10 years ago and we as film makers working on the fringe are in a worse position than ever because showing what we can do often does mean that is what is expected.

That said there are some god damn dire scripts and so little time is spent on this key aspect of the (if often any at all).

But it is harder to break out now because the competition is so great. Making a film and getting it released was often a sure fire way to the big time, now it is not.

There is money in the business but now I fear that money is more in making your own films and a lower budget and selling them well. The good thing is that there are more avenues and chances than ever to get a film released. So I think there is money but people need to lower there expectations towards being more realistic and rather than make a film to get noticed make a good film that get's released and make your money that way.

I agree the industry is more complicated than it's ever been.

You're also right, there is no such thing as a sure thing anymore.

These days the only way to get things done as an indie is to have the skills to create something outstanding, but at the same time achieve that outstanding film with lower production costs than were considered possible ten years ago.

When I first set out in the industry people looked for a $1.5M budget for their first movie -- because realistically you couldn't produce a cinema release film for less than that. -- HD, improvements in SD and FCP have certainly changed all of that. The $700,000 I spent on my last picture looks excessive to me now -- I'd never spend that much again on a No Name picture, without pre-sales.

These days I think that it's just about possible to produce a commerically viable feature film with a $1,000 budget, if you start out with basic levels of equipment (A camera that will shoot native 16:9, a decent mic and a computer that'll handle FCP or Premiere) and you adapt your film to the strenghts of your format/budget.

Production/Post Production skills aren't that dificult to acquire -- the one thing that hasn't changed is that this industry is all about content -- and that's where we have to apply the most discipline and I know this is a strange word to use, but it's the area where we also need the most humility.

If I'm honest I think the one thing that would transform the indie scene overnight would be for people to ask themselves seriously whether they have the skills/talent to create their own scripts -- and if not whether they are prepared to devote the time and energy to developing those skills.

The same applies to the directing -- people have to ask themselves if they have the skills and knowledge to block and direct actors -- and if not, whether they are willing to put years of effort into acquiring those skills.

Funny enough I gave up writing a few years ago because I wasn't good enough or at least didnt have the time to concentrate on it. It's hard though to throw away your dream and admit you are not up to scratch but you are right often some people are not.

Case in point - people on my degree course. There were the talented, the dedicated and the poor. But the poor were treated much the same as the talented, in terms of reward and recognition and left for false hope. That didn't help anyone.

Funny enough I gave up writing a few years ago because I wasn't good enough or at least didn't have the time to concentrate on it. It's hard though to throw away your dream and admit you are not up to scratch but you are right often some people are not.

There's no shame in it -- I couldn't light a scene professionally if my life depended on it -- I'm also a producer by necessity rather than by skill or disposition. I happen to think that a creative producer is worth their weight in gold. I'm definitely not able to fill that position on a production -- unless I really, really have to.

There are plenty of jobs on set I'd quite happily give up -- I mean I can edit if I have to, but I'd much rather have someone else cut and the same is true of camera operating -- I'm definitely the DOP only when all else fails.

I produced because I got fustrated directing. Happens that I really enjoy it now... more so than ever. But will be going back to directing early next year. And maybe writing. Funny how things change.

That said I have become a strong script editor.

it's just about possible to produce a commerically viable feature film with a $1,000 budget, if you start out with basic levels of equipment (A camera that will shoot native 16:9, a decent mic and a computer that'll handle FCP or Premiere) and you adapt your film to the strenghts of your format/budget.

...Oh, good! 'Cuz that's about all I've got! :D Isn't there a money tree somewhere? Aren't I supposed to hit the lottery or the jackpot at the casino!!!??? :lol:

...and Grinchy: If content is possibly your problem, who knows? Maybe you are (gasp!) visual! Maybe you are the person who makes the story come off the page. There are alot of up and coming screenwriters just dying for someone to look at their story and find merit in it....


-- spinner :cool:

it's just about possible to produce a commerically viable feature film with a $1,000 budget

I started writng a book about $1000 movie production a while back, but had to put it to one side when other writing projects took off.

I may go back to it at some point, because about 50% of the book was about techniques for getting the content right. I even had a film lined up to demonstrate how it's done, until I accidentally found a $200,000 budget for that project. So now production on it has gone back a year to accommodate funding. Ho Hum.

Ha! I hate that. I prepped a budget for a $200k movie, was told to pitch it higher re-did the budget, was told it was too high, did it again and now we are doing it self funded for $10k because I got hacked off dealing with idiots changing there minds!!!

The point is this new film has a major car smash up, shoot outs, an explosion, a big ring fight with a crowd and 2 other 'big budget' moments... with technology as it is you can make a cheap movie and get a return!

Ha! I hate that. I prepped a budget for a $200k movie, was told to pitch it higher re-did the budget, was told it was too high, did it again and now we are doing it self funded for $10k because I got hacked off dealing with idiots changing there minds!!!

The point is this new film has a major car smash up, shoot outs, an explosion, a big ring fight with a crowd and 2 other 'big budget' moments... with technology as it is you can make a cheap movie and get a return!

Good for you! I went through the same exact thing and said "forget the idiots". I just finished a two-hour feature for well under $10K too - with jumbo jets, explosions, machineguns, high falls, crowds, all in Arizona where you can film downtown without any permit fees.

I hope you don't mind me saying that I read some of your other posts and I think you've got the right mindset to pull it off now, more than ever before. I've had similar failures in the past but they were all necessary to teach me to be truly independent (i.e., free of the big crew mentality and six figure budget illusion). And I made all of the decisions myself, taking full responsibility for every last detail, like my life depended on getting it right the first time. That's when I finally got everything right, when the only mistakes would be mine.

The best of luck to you on your film, I'm sure if you give it all the energy you've got - you will succeed!

Cheers

I don't make my movies for the critics...Walt Disney (Who still holds the record for the most Oscar wins)

I've directed 2 short movies, one finished and one that we had to stop because of the lack of effort put into it. We, my film group [visit us at http://bak2bassikz.com] had to get involved in another project to reset our train of thought. After this we started making our new series called Here, Forward. See it on youtube, here: http://http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=HereForwardB2B.

Van Gogh, and other master artists, died broke and were told their art was junk.

ALFRED (To Bruce): "Why do we falls? To learn to get back up." (Batman Begins)

Ever get down and bummed out? I love film making and the other video work I do but after the last two films I directed got some bad comments... How do you cope with bad reviews and comments?